List Mgmt. 2017 Draft Discussion (cont in Pt 2)

[gringo2011]

just going off the reports that his tank is an issue, which you wont necessarily see exposed at U18 level. petracca you couldnt notice his lack of tank when he played against his peers, but it was there in testing. how did clark test?

It's sometimes crap the testing. Some players are all show and no go. Clarke plays the type of game that looks like it will translate. Petracca was always questioned about his ability to move to the midfield, he'd slimmed down and had been working with a personal trainer and running coach.

I remember being bemused by Battle, his testing said he had below standard agility yet watching his games one of his strengths was his ability to evade tackles and twist and turn to get opportunities in front of goal. Other guys test well for speed but don't seem to be able to put it on the park. Petrucelle is only .03 of a second faster in the speed test over Bonar but if you see the two play, Petrucelle is like a rocket in comparison. His speed is actually noticeably quicker than just about any player in this draft and probably the AFL.

 

[Smoke_Me_AKipper]

I'm with you. He's the one that I just keep coming back to as wanting, in particular if there is only one "slider" (or none).

Basically if we get him, I'm not going to be too fussed who we get with the other pick, as I'll be so pumped that we got him.

He's my Powell-Pepper for this year, unless say two like Cerra and Stephenson or Brayshaw by some miracle are avail.

I agree totally mate.

I think we won't grab him IF Brayshaw, Cerra and Coffield are all available. That is very unlikely though. Likely only 1 of them available if any.

Ideally one of Brayshaw or Cerra as the mid and Bonar as the 'could be anything' pick. I like his size and explosiveness. He provides something different to St Kilda, something we don't really have, (we have Gresh and Billings both of whom are exciting but they dont play like Bonar).

I wasn't sure at first but the kid could be anything

 

[Smoke_Me_AKipper]

Coffields preference is St Kilda, even though he barracks for Bulldogs and one of his best mates plays at Bulldogs. Thats how much of an impression our recruiters made on him and his family.

Coffield and Clark or Coffield and Bonar - both pretty good hauls I would think

 

[gringo2011]

+1.

Would be stoked with Fogerty.

I re-watched a lot of his highlights including the Giantroo ones and wasn't as wrapped wth him as I had been but he's a bull. He's very inconsistent, his best is like Mark Ricchuto, just pushing campaigners out of his way like bulldozer but his worst is a little disinterested. Has Petracca qualities too. His kicking when on is some of the best you will see with passes that just force the receiver to mark the ball. If he's the best available I won't be upset.

 

[Ads734]

It's sometimes crap the testing. Some players are all show and no go. Clarke plays the type of game that looks like it will translate. Petracca was always questioned about his ability to move to the midfield, he'd slimmed down and had been working with a personal trainer and running coach.

I remember being bemused by Battle, his testing said he had below standard agility yet watching his games one of his strengths was his ability to evade tackles and twist and turn to get opportunities in front of goal. Other guys test well for speed but don't seem to be able to put it on the park. Petrucelle is only .03 of a second faster in the speed test over Bonar but if you see the two play, Petrucelle is like a rocket in comparison. His speed is actually noticeably quicker than just about any player in this draft and probably the AFL.

Lots and lots of sense spoken there Gringo.

Some other examples the fastest recorded 20 metre sprint time is by Joel Wilkinson who no one could argue was a fast player.
Sometimes it does translate but it often does not.

Also in terms of endurance. Its pretty clear that St Kilda's best endurance runner on the track is Jarryn Gearey but no body could argue that he is a running player let alone a good running player. Conversely, someone like Joey who was always a mid level runner but never an amazing runner but was a much better running player is clearly more valuable then somebody who tests well. That's why the athleticmsm showing games is so much more relevant. Somebody like jack Billings has always been able to be a running player and rack up 30 touches despite lacking the running power of Mckenzie,Newnes, Gearey, Phillips etc is because knowing when and where to run in AFL is so much more important then having the ability to run but not knowing wear to run. That's why the fuss about rayner not being able to run is so overblown. In the games he has played despite 'sub par' fitness he has still dominated up forward or in the midifeld.

 

[StCicatriz]

Sumich is firing rockets on 6pr now

Says freo haven't shown interest in naughton and he's read the tea leaves and made the comment about not wanting to be there

Also said that freo selecting an interstate player will be a massive mistake and the only way they win a flag is if they bring in more WA talent otherwise they'll have a revolving door

 

[gringo2011]

Yep, Steele still 21 years old and had no pre season this year. Is a beast and has a tank. I recon he is way under rated outside saints circles (although strangely, I think Dermie loves him). If he steps up this year, as he should being another year older and having a full pre season... he will be a very very good player IMO

I think he's under rated because he's a hard worker and not a flash type. The guys who do party tricks often get all the accolades. It takes a bit longer for the wider community to notice guys like Steele.

 

[aussierulesrules]

I agree totally mate.

I think we won't grab him IF Brayshaw, Cerra and Coffield are all available. That is very unlikely though. Likely only 1 of them available if any.

Ideally one of Brayshaw or Cerra as the mid and Bonar as the 'could be anything' pick. I like his size and explosiveness. He provides something different to St Kilda, something we don't really have, (we have Gresh and Billings both of whom are exciting but they dont play like Bonar).

I wasn't sure at first but the kid could be anything

Was interested to note that BA said Bonar's kicking is "very good and has genuine penetration", which is what I noticed when watching his All Stars highlights in particular.

He missed a couple of targets, with the longish kicks going too far, but they were both low and penetrating kicks, and I've seen others who have seen or know a lot about him who have described his kicking as a strength, and that's one of the main reasons I'm so keen on him.

He's got a hell of a mix of attributes, with the size, the strength/power, the willingness and great ability to hunt and tackle, the speed, the contested marking, the leap, the work in close and ability to win first possession and distribute, the long and penetrating kicking and the versatility.

You can see why those who know him best (those who have coached him, or played with or against him) speak so highly of him and rate him so highly.

He's not just someone like a Balta who has a great mix of attributes but who has never proven he can play consistently excellent footy, so perhaps never will, Bon was AA prior to doing his knee for the first time and by the sounds of it was just kicking ass on a regular basis. Then got injured. Very very different.

There's a terrific article on him in today's HUN which talks about the dedication to get back and all the work he did (including the 6am sessions, 1.5 hours on a trampoline every Wednesday, 3 months of gymnastics, and working on his running with Craig Mottram, etc).

He sounds every bit like the type who has the ability, attributes and attitude to be a top 5 in the comp type. And that to me is what we need more than anything.

The knee for me is the only risk in picking him.

 

[gringo2011]

Lots and lots of sense spoken there Gringo.

Some other examples the fastest recorded 20 metre sprint time is by Joel Wilkinson who no one could argue was a fast player.
Sometimes it does translate but it often does not.

Also in terms of endurance. Its pretty clear that St Kilda's best endurance runner on the track is Jarryn Gearey but no body could argue that he is a running player let alone a good running player. Conversely, someone like Joey who was always a mid level runner but never an amazing runner but was a much better running player is clearly more valuable then somebody who tests well. That's why the athleticmsm showing games is so much more relevant. Somebody like jack Billings has always been able to be a running player and rack up 30 touches despite lacking the running power of Mckenzie,Newnes, Gearey, Phillips etc is because knowing when and where to run in AFL is so much more important then having the ability to run but not knowing wear to run. That's why the fuss about rayner not being able to run is so overblown. In the games he has played despite 'sub par' fitness he has still dominated up forward or in the midifeld.

Mc Kenzie is another great example of a guy who tests well and is "quick". Most people that get frustrated with him would say it's because he gets caught with the ball or makes poor decisions when rushed. Speed is only as useful as how you use it. Nathan Freeman in his draft year was very fleet footed, hopefully he gets on the park and uses his break away speed.

 

[gringo2011]

Was interested to note that BA said Bonar's kicking is "very good and has genuine penetration", which is what I noticed when watching his All Stars highlights in particular.

He missed a couple of targets, with the longish kicks going too far, but they both were low and penetrating kicks, and I've had seen others who have seen or know a lot about him who have described his kicking as a strength, and that's one of the main reasons I'm so keen on him.

He's got a hell of a mix of attributes, with the size, the strength/power, the willingness and great ability to hunt and tackle, the speed, the contested marking, the work in close and ability to win first possession, the long and penetrating kicking and the versatility.

You can see why those who know him best (those who have coached him, or played with or against him) speak so highly of him and rate him so highly.

He's not just someone like a Balta who has a great mix of attributes but who has never proven he can play consistently excellent footy, so perhaps never will, he was AA prior to doing his knee for the first time and by the sounds of it was just kicking ass on a regular basis. Then got injured.

There's a terrific article on him in today's HUN which talks about the dedication to get back and all the work he did (including the 6am sessions, 1.5 hours on a trampoline every Wednesday, 3 months of gymnastics and working on his running with Craig Mottram, etc).

He sounds every bit like the type who has the ability, attributes and attitude to be a top 5 in the comp type. And that to me is what we need more than anything.

The knee for me is the only risk in picking him.

Wasn't he pretty high up in goal kicking at the combine too? His knee is a worry but there are some very exciting qualities in Bonar. That footage of him playing TAC where he rips down contested marks like an older kid playing juniors was awesome. The discipline and commitment are definitely a strength from that too.

 

[aussierulesrules]

Wasn't he pretty high up in goal kicking at the combine too? His knee is a worry but there are some very exciting qualities in Bonar. That footage of him playing TAC where he rips down contested marks like an older kid playing juniors was awesome. The discipline and commitment are definitely a strength from that too.

Don't remember how he tested for goalkicking, but he was also top 10 for agility, which is a great result coming back from the recos and also being such a big unit.

Also said in the article that he won 3 premierships in 3 years for Seaford leading up to the first knee and that he was BOG in the GF on each occasion.

 

[gringo2011]

Midfielder who can find space.
Thats not what we need?

The piece of play I was talking about when he runs the full length of the field to set up a goal while linking is in this video at 2.10. He actually kicks out and runs to just outside the forward 50 and kicks it to Sam Hayes. If that doesn't translate to what we want nothing does.

 

[gringo2011]

Don't remember how he tested for goalkicking, but he was also top 10 for agility, which is a great result coming back from the recos and also being such a big unit.

Also said in the article that he won 3 premierships in 3 years for Seaford leading up to the first knee and that he was BOG in the GF on each occasion.

Looks like equal 5th for goal kicking.

http://www.afl.com.au/news/2017-10-06/draft-combine-results-top-10-for-every-test

 

[Barrels]

Sumich is firing rockets on 6pr now

Says freo haven't shown interest in naughton and he's read the tea leaves and made the comment about not wanting to be there

Also said that freo selecting an interstate player will be a massive mistake and the only way they win a flag is if they bring in more WA talent otherwise they'll have a revolving door

Who. Gives. A. ****!

 

[Flandersss]

The piece of play I was talking about when he runs the full length of the field to set up a goal while linking is in this video at 2.10. He actually kicks out and runs to just outside the forward 50 and kicks it to Sam Hayes. If that doesn't translate to what we want nothing does.

He just does everything well.

That play was sublime.

 

[Barrels]

Funny thing is this; all of Clark, Bonar, Cerra, Stephenson and D.Fogarty have been mooted as potential no. 1 picks - or touted as ‘but for injury’ could bes - over the last 12 months...

And we’re (potentially) getting two of them.

 

[Sniffy Jenkins]

At some point Collingwood will have to address their Key stocks. Why wait till next year. Naughton is there abouts in that draft range. Buckley probably vomits in his mouth every time he sees his kicking action but the kid gets the job done back there.

Likely for us

#7 Hunter Clark...... or Cerra if he slides (less likely now with Stephensons health concern)

Both well balanced Mids with quality kicking decision making. Cerra has not been as durable as Clark with injury issues worth noting. Clark can run and carry and is tough in the contest and applying defensive pressure. Has a bit of the Bont about him the way he moves at times and how easily he can go in and scoop the ball up in a contested situation then get his arms up in the air moving through traffic. Unusual combination of a smooth operator and a hard nosed competitor. Versatile, can play all three lines. Suited midfielder in the Red White & Black

#8 Nicholas Coffield.........or Bonar, Stephenson (if the Coff is off the board)

Saints need to make good kicking a priority and adding Coffield along with Clark addresses that. Im more interested in a player who can hit up targets consistently and open up the opposition with his laser kick as opposed to a speed demon who dashes down the wing like Usain Bolt and kicks it straight to the other team. Hawthorn built a formiddable team around elite kicking hardly ever winning the contested possession count, they cut you up with skill class. Clark and Coffield are both fast as it is especially Coffield (2.91s 20m sprint). Coffield can definitely transition to a Midfielder full time and has proven that already. Play him across the half back line early in his career pushing up the ground and then develop him into a tall mobile wingman similar to how we developed Brendan Goddard from quarterback defender to Mr Everywhere. Young players need time to evolve, look at Andy McGrath pick #1 as a Mid/Def just won the Rising star from the back pocket and will prob stay there for another season or two before he moves into the middle. At worst Coffield stays a roaming third tall defender which we lack anyway with Dempster gone and Gilbert on way out and to much reliance on Robbo. Elliot Yeo 2.0 coming off the wing controlling the back half of the ground finds plenty of the pill. Will be a weapon

Elite Foot Skills is PARAMOUNT

Bonar I like over D Fog having more Midfield capabilities but Two ACLs concerning. First ACL unlucky someone fell across his knee, 2nd was non contact but his club said it was because the graft didn't take so make what you will of that. But he has some raw power and could be a huge pick up.

Stephenson I still like despite the Heart issue. He's been super for some time and would give us some real X factor on the wing and hunts the footy like a mad man.

 

[crasha301]

I think he's under rated because he's a hard worker and not a flash type. The guys who do party tricks often get all the accolades. It takes a bit longer for the wider community to notice guys like Steele.

Like lenny, he never really got a big wrap till he was at least 27 yo.

On SM-G900I using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[aussierulesrules]

He just does everything well.

That play was sublime.

There must be a knock on him though, otherwise with all the positive attributes that he clearly has and the fantastic results/performances once he moved back into the midfield, he would surely be in the mix for pick 1, or at minimum a top 3-5 pick, just like the others around his size and output in Rayner, LDU, Dow, Cerra and Brayshaw are?

So why are they all in the mix for pick 1, or at worst 2, while Hunter's range is pretty clearly 7/8 and beyond, once all those guys are gone?

There must be something missing, and despite his kicking sometimes/often being described as a strength, it's also the thing that the likes of BA mention as the knock.

Some were making the excuse that his KE was very poor this year because he's used to playing off HB and having lots of space and time to dispose of the ball, but if what someone said earlier is true (that he's been playing midfield for 10 years and was only used across HB briefly this year because of a minor injury), then that doesn't really fly, and his KE of as low as 40% or whatever it was is a genuine concern, and would presumably be why he's not in the same conversation as the likes of LDU/Rayner/Dow/Cerra/Brayshaw.

I also remember seeing someone "ITK" say that some clubs have a bit of a doubt as to whether he'll be able to bulk up enough to play inside at AFL level, which was interesting. Not something I see as an issue personally tho.

 

[aussierulesrules]

Like lenny, he never really got a big wrap till he was at least 27 yo.

He's a different type to Lenny though, as Lenny had the elite candy-sell and pinpoint kicking on both feet, whereas at this stage Steele pretty much only tackles and handballs. Needs to start kicking it more and getting more of it outside the packs and gaining more meterage (which I'm backing him to do with another full preseason or two under his belt). Better mark than Lenny tho.

 

[St Neil]

From Brett Anderson's latest power ranking the letter C looms large.

5. Charlie CONSTABLE – Sandringham Dragons
DOB: 18/5/99 | Ht: 190.3cm | Wt: 83.5kg | Medium Midfielder

Constable isn’t going to wow with his athleticism, but when it comes to footy smarts, composure, competitiveness and production, there aren't too many (if any) better.

The nephew of Mick Malthouse has elite hands and vision in the contest and stands tall when tackled. He struggled with a groin injury late in the year but was still the top rated player in the TAC Cup Grand Final despite having his game time managed.

Big Board 1.0 Ranking: 4

6. Adam CERRA – Eastern Ranges
DOB: 7/10/99 | Ht: 185.9cm | Wt: 79.5kg | Medium Midfielder

Cerra is another who’s season was cut short by a shoulder injury, but his quality was there for all to see with the Ranges – and Wesley in school foot. He can win the ball inside and out and gets from contest to contest very well.

He is rated by Darren Bewick as the best kid he’s coached in his time at Eastern – some wrap considering the names that have preceded him.

Big Board 1.0 Ranking: 5

7. Nick COFFIELD – Northern Knights
DOB: 23/10/99 | Ht: 190.2cm | Wt: 82.6kg | Utility

The Northern Knights captain was a strong perfomer in the national championships and continued that level of consistency through to the end of the TAC Cup season.

He has played in all three zones, but looks most comfortable running off half back where his speed, decision making and kicking are a genuine threat. At the next level, some feel he’ll end up as an inside midfielder.

Big Board 1.0 Ranking: 8

I can imagine the firestorm that might erupt if we went for a Constable-Coffield double. The C-word could well make an appearance.

I appear to be one of the few who wants to draft Constable. I know this view has little support.

I’m a novice and inexpert at judging young talent, but this lad is a footballer and not an athlete.

He gets the ball and uses it effectively. His endurance & fitness appears to need a lot of work but he has the tools to play the game. Give me a footballer any day.

I think we’ll regret passing on him.

 

[crasha301]

He's a different type to Lenny though, as Lenny had the elite candy-sell and pinpoint kicking on both feet, whereas at this stage Steele pretty much only tackles and handballs. Needs to start kicking it more and getting more of it outside the packs and gaining more meterage. Better mark than Lenny tho.

I might be mistaken but didn't the candy-sell come into lennys game in his mid to late 20s?

Different types yes but i see the same sort of heart in steele that lenny had.

On SM-G900I using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[Diehard Saint]

Funny thing is this; all of Clark, Bonar, Cerra, Stephenson and D.Fogarty have been mooted as potential no. 1 picks - or touted as ‘but for injury’ could bes - over the last 12 months...

And we’re (potentially) getting two of them.

Hopefully the two we get will turn out like "but for injury" could be's Judd and Selwood.

 

[gringo2011]

He just does everything well.

That play was sublime.

And he was actually fairly disappointing overall in that game, he was better in most others games this year and from memory the under 17 AS game in 2016 he was fantastic in. That piece of play though was one of the highlights of the game though. That was late after legs were getting very heavy and he just gut ran to make something happen.

 

[gringo2011]

There must be a knock on him though, otherwise with all the positive attributes that he clearly has and the fantastic results/performances once he moved back into the midfield, he would surely be in the mix for pick 1, or at minimum a top 3-5 pick, just like the others around his size and output in Rayner, LDU, Dow, Cerra and Brayshaw are?

So why are they all in the mix for pick 1, or at worst 2, while Hunter's range is pretty clearly 7/8 and beyond, once all those guys are gone?

There must be something missing, and despite his kicking sometimes/often being described as a strength, it's also the thing that the likes of BA mention as the knock.

Some were making the excuse that his KE was very poor this year because he's used to playing off HB and having lots of space and time to dispose of the ball, but if what someone said earlier is true (that he's been playing midfield for 10 years and was only used across HB briefly this year because of a minor injury), then that doesn't really fly, and his KE of as low as 40% or whatever it was is a genuine concern, and would presumably be why he's not in the same conversation as the likes of LDU/Rayner/Dow/Cerra/Brayshaw.

I also remember seeing someone "ITK" say that some clubs have a bit of a doubt as to whether he'll be able to bulk up enough to play inside at AFL level, which was interesting. Not something I see as an issue personally tho.

Consistency of his kicking, he's sublime or awful at times from what I can tell. His hand balling is amazing though and his twisting and turning out of tackles is snake like. There is something special about him, he's like a faster flashier Jack Steele with bits of Lenny and Roberton and a big ego. He comes across as a very front foot type player who almost over does attacking. He seems to go forward quickly and avoids the safer options of chipping backwards and sideways.