Analysis 2017 List Management Discussion - Part 3

[The Bighouse]

I reckon the combination of McKay and Kerr/Silvagni (one of) will be enough. More than that is way too tall these days. Then have the mids of Charlie Cripps Kennedy Murphy SPS Pickett Cuningham etc all having time up forward. Have 1 or 2 smaller forwards like Wright (and hopefully LeBois, maybe Rayner) and that is an awesome looking modern day forward line.

Line ‘em up, and we’ve just drafted Rayner & Fogarty next week...

 

[Soapy V]

Anything can happen and probably will, but I can see our back-line not losing much with Weitering not being there.

I totally disagree. There is a massive difference between an elite defender and a good one. Weitering will be elite if we leave him there. He will run the backline. Could rival SOS as our greatest key defender.

Imagine taking Rance out of the Tigers defence and throw him forward? Looks very different and a lot weaker. Also a lot of attack and goals come from a cohesive defence. Weiterings elite ball use and poise will be a huge advantage.

Get the defence set, then the midfield and everything will be fine.

 

[HARKER]

I totally disagree. There is a massive difference between an elite defender and a good one. Weitering will be elite if we leave him there. He will run the backline. Could rival SOS as our greatest key defender.

Imagine taking Rance out of the Tigers defence and throw him forward? Looks very different and a lot weaker. Also a lot of attack and goals come from a cohesive defence. Weiterings elite ball use and poise will be a huge advantage.

Get the defence set, then the midfield and everything will be fine.

What exactly makes you say he'll be elite?
That's a bold statement and even though he has the ability to become elite, there are far from any guarantees he will become so.

I'm yet to be convinced, yet at the same time see Macreadie capable of becoming a very, very good KPD.
Give Macreadie opportunity (and he'll get it) and we may yet be surprised.

 

[Soapy V]

What exactly makes you say he'll be elite?
That's a bold statement and even though he has the ability to become elite, there are far from any guarantees he will become so.

I'm yet to be convinced, yet at the same time see Macreadie capable of becoming a very, very good KPD.
Give Macreadie opportunity (and he'll get it) and we may yet be surprised.

He’s more chance to be an elite defender than forward.

Just let the kid settle and develop. He’s a kid. It’s madness rotating him. Once established he can go forward when needed. No issue

Other players are irrelevant. Weitering is the best of them. Don’t waste such a talent

 

[GapInIkonPark]

I reckon the combination of McKay and Kerr/Silvagni (one of) will be enough. More than that is way too tall these days. Then have the mids of Charlie Cripps Kennedy Murphy SPS Pickett Cuningham etc all having time up forward. Have 1 or 2 smaller forwards like Wright (and hopefully LeBois, maybe Rayner) and that is an awesome looking modern day forward line.

I look forward to Bolton throwing Charlie or Cripps to deep FF at times like Martin or Dangerfield. Be hard to stop.

Certainly where we are heading. Probably one more year of Casboult in the 22 and then in 2019 it might look like:

Pickett. Jack. Kerr

Wright. McKay. One of say (Charlie, Murphy, Kennedy, SPS, Fisher, Lang, Cripps ...)

With Lamb and maybe a draftee (Ben anyone?) available too. Le Bois if he makes it ...

Reading through the posts I think people are being particularly hard on Jack. He is extremely good one on one and is clever even when not in a marking contest. He kicked 2 in the first quarter against the Swans and certainly had some other good patches during the year. He also played with a damaged shoulder for a fair portion of the year. Jack will be the first one to say he needs to work on his tank.

So if we can also get Jack, Charlie and Weiters regularly marking the kick outs after the opposition kicks a behind, we will be doing very well. Who does the kick outs? Willa? Marchbank?

 

[therubbernub]

I'm not sure about Jack, nor the notion of having four talls hovering about, in the forward line.

Weitering & Curnow have the ability to burn off their opponents, McKay may be needed as a back-up ruck as well as our leading forward, so where does that leave Jack? He may well make it, but just can't be sure of where his best fit may yet be.

I agree , your point about the talls is valid. That is why the tall concerned must have another string to their bow, either -
1. A super mobile player in the N Riewoldt style
2. A capable backup ruckman
3 A super smart creative type

Its at number 3 that Jack should be placed . But I am worried about his speed

 

[GapInIkonPark]

I agree , your point about the talls is valid. That is why the tall concerned must have another string to their bow, either -
1. A super mobile player in the N Riewoldt style
2. A capable backup ruckman
3 A super smart creative type

Its at number 3 that Jack should be placed . But I am worried about his speed

Like the framework nub. Jack is a very good 3rd or 4th tall - super smart creative type - and his issue I think is not so much speed as it is running out games.

 

[Rarely Rong]

 

[Soapy V]

Like the framework nub. Jack is a very good 3rd or 4th tall - super smart creative type - and his issue I think is not so much speed as it is running out games.

Who plays 3 & 4 talls these days and does well? Game has changed and will change further. One big forward is enough. The rest are mobile players

 

[GapInIkonPark]

Who plays 3 & 4 talls these days and does well? Game as changed and will change further. One big forward is enough. The rest are mobile players

Harry, Jack, Charlie and Kerr are all mobile, Casboult the ruck relief for Kreuzer.
Need enough class midfielders so we can have Pickett, Fisher just pinch-hitting in the middle and playing mainly forward.

I think Richmond were forced into its forward structure by Griffiths’ concussion issues and Elton did not make it. Townsend is a mobile medium I guess. So the players you have matter ... perhaps moreso than the conventional / latest premier’s structure.

Pies would like another tall to complement Moore... Dogs have taken Schache to partner Boyd ... Geelong rumoured to be drafting to complement Hawkins and allow Taylor to play back.

 

[Soapy V]

Harry, Jack, Charlie and Kerr are all mobile, Casboult the ruck relief for Kreuzer.
Need enough class midfielders so we can have Pickett, Fisher just pinch-hitting in the middle and playing mainly forward.

I think Richmond were forced into its forward structure by Griffiths’ concussion issues and Elton did not make it. Townsend is a mobile medium I guess. So the players you have matter ... perhaps moreso than the conventional / latest premier’s structure.

Pies would like another tall to complement Moore... Dogs have taken Schache to partner Boyd ... Geelong rumoured to be drafting to complement Hawkins and allow Taylor to play back.

Have to disagree Gap. Richmond did so much better with Griffiths out even if forced. Dogs won a flag with a small forwardline. Hawks started it

All these sides success or problems are caused by strength of midfield and running both ways. The game is like a scrum. Sides like to play almost 14 plus running players. It’s why only one ruck is used.

Possession control, ball use and defensive pressure is what the game is about.

I don’t like it but we can’t deny it.

 

[HARKER]

He’s more chance to be an elite defender than forward.
Just let the kid settle and develop. He’s a kid. It’s madness rotating him. Once established he can go forward when needed. No issue
Other players are irrelevant. Weitering is the best of them. Don’t waste such a talent

Remember that we didn't start Weitering forward at the start of this year, just for a little bit of fun.
Had he kicked on, this discussion may have already been dead and he'd be playing where Bolton wanted him to be playing.

It didn't take Weitering until late in the year to get used to having to play with niggles.
I simply don't think he's showing himself to be hard enough yet.....I know, I know....he's young, but that shouldn't change his attack on the ball and his approach towards his opponents.

 

[GapInIkonPark]

Have to disagree Gap. Richmond did so much better with Griffiths out even if forced. Dogs won a flag with a small forwardline. Hawks started it

All these sides success or problems are caused by strength of midfield and running both ways. The game is like a scrum. Sides like to play almost 14 plus running players. It’s why only one ruck is used.

Possession control, ball use and defensive pressure is what the game is about.

I don’t like it but we can’t deny it.

I think the rules stopping the third man up is the main reason why clubs play with one recognised ruckman in the 22.

Don’t disagree on the large number of midfield types sides go with and hope that we add to the number we have. Think there is place for 3-4 tall forward if they are mobile.

How far away are we in our Best 22 for 14 midfielders / midfield types?

First rotation: Cripps, Murphy and Ed (center)
Second rotation: Kennedy, Lang and SPS (center)
Third rotation: Cuningham, Fisher and Williamson (center)

Also Charlie and Pickett can also do meaningful minutes in the middle, and Simpson on the wing. Depth is Polson, Mullett, Graham, Kerridge, Lamb ... also Thomas I guess ...

 

[Soapy V]

Remember that we didn't start Weitering forward at the start of this year, just for a little bit of fun.
Had he kicked on, this discussion may have already been dead and he'd be playing where Bolton wanted him to be playing.

But he didn’t and it took him a while to get his form and confidence back.

Isn’t that the point?

PS didn’t he start forward in round one?

 

[HARKER]

But he didn’t and it took him a while to get his form and confidence back.
Isn’t that the point?
PS didn’t he start forward in round one?

Nope. This is the point; Did Bolton and his coaches make the mistake or did Weitering err?

I'm siding with the latter for my reasons, but some will say Bolton ****ed up.

 

[Jimmae]

Not really.

Than the 80s? Ahh... yes.

If you don't like the congestion, blame the coaches.

 

[Soapy V]

Nope. This is the point; Did Bolton and his coaches make the mistake or did Weitering err?

I'm siding with the latter for my reasons, but some will say Bolton ****** up.

I thought it was about education to see if he can play forward at times later his career?

He’s a back that can go forward. Just needs to settle for a while

Not a stuff up at all

 

[HARKER]

I thought it was about education to see if he can play forward at times later his career?
He’s a back that can go forward. Just needs to settle for a while
Not a stuff up at all

Firstly, Weitering will be a wonderful player but maybe even Bolton may have been surprised as to just how soft Jacob played, at times.

To me, it looked as though Bolton was going to teach Weitering to play through pain, just as he'd demand of all his players.
Jacob got better as the year went on and he spent less time rolling on the ground showcasing his pain. You can't afford to be pitying yourself in this game, as when the opposition catch on, they won't show you any pity at all. They'll just target you longer and hit you harder.

 

[Soapy V]

Firstly, Weitering will be a wonderful player but maybe even Bolton may have been surprised as to just how soft Jacob played, at times.

To me, it looked as though Bolton was going to teach Weitering to play through pain, just as he'd demand of all his players.
Jacob got better as the year went on and he spent less time rolling on the ground showcasing his pain. You can't afford to be pitying yourself in this game, as when the opposition catch on, they won't show you any pity at all. They'll just target you longer and hit you harder.

Maybe. Still a kid. Fair to say we disagree on his role. Nothing wrong with that

 

[HARKER]

Maybe. Still a kid. Fair to say we disagree on his role. Nothing wrong with that

It's not so much his role but where he has the ability to be most dangerous.
I don't think he can make our back-line 10% better, but can see him making our forward line ever so much better.

Plenty of time for this to play out, but Docherty going down may not have helped with Boltons plans for next year. We'll see, I guess.

 

[Soapy V]

It's not so much his role but where he has the ability to be most dangerous.
I don't think he can make our back-line 10% better, but can see him making our forward line ever so much better..

See we disagree. I believe he could be the difference between winning a flag and not.

As a defender I believe he is worth more goals to us than as a forward. He will stop them, support other defenders and create goals with his elite ball use.

Up forward with McKay supported Silvagni or Kerr is enough. They need to develop as well. Weitering up there will slow that process

Too many more positives as a defender than as a forward. JMO

 

[Robertio]

I totally disagree. There is a massive difference between an elite defender and a good one. Weitering will be elite if we leave him there. He will run the backline. Could rival SOS as our greatest key defender.

Imagine taking Rance out of the Tigers defence and throw him forward? Looks very different and a lot weaker. Also a lot of attack and goals come from a cohesive defence. Weiterings elite ball use and poise will be a huge advantage.

Get the defence set, then the midfield and everything will be fine.

Double likes for this, Doc out Weitering becomes very important down back.

 

[HARKER]

See we disagree. I believe he could be the difference between winning a flag and not.
As a defender I believe he is worth more goals to us than as a forward. He will stop them, support other defenders and create goals with his elite ball use.
Too many more positives as a defender than as a forward. JMO

We've clearly been looking at different Weiterings
Marchbank and Jones are more aggressive than Weitering and I don't think Macreadie will be far behind them either.

Sometimes I think we see what we want to see and not what is actually in front of us.

 

[Robertio]

We've clearly been looking at different Weiterings
Marchbank and Jones are more aggressive than Weitering and I don't think Macreadie will be far behind them either.

Sometimes I think we see what we want to see and not what is actually in front of us.

Think your going a little bit early saying Weitering is soft.

 

[Soapy V]

Sometimes I think we see what we want to see and not what is actually in front of us.

You might but I’m not. I think I’ll end there