Analysis 2017 List Management Discussion Part II

[katmanblue]

At this point, I think Pickett is your speedy goal kicking small forward. I really, really want to see this guy hit peak fitness, will tear it up I believe. FWIW, I'm not sure I see Kruezer as the 5 year minimum player you have included here. I would think 3 more good seasons at best, to me, I get the feeling that when he hits the wall, his performance will drop away very quickly. Just my opinion on Kruezer though.

I agree

On SM-N920I using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[Smalls0304]

FB: Byrne Jones Plowman
CHB: Gibbs Weitering Marchbank
C: Docherty Cripps Fisher
CHF: Murphy Lynch C.Curnow
FF: Pickett McKay SOSOS
FOL: Kreuz SPS Hopper
INT: Cuningham Williamson Macreadie (2017 pick 4 mid)

Focus on Lynch 2018 F.A. Hopefully Kelly signs 2 years & somehow get Hopper with our 2018 picks. No way that side does not make finals in 2019. There will be a big midfield fish in a couple of years that will be begging to play for the navy through F.A (Kelly?). Keep going to the draft, snag another talent in Hopper the same way as Plowman & Marchbank and attempt to get Lynch for free. That paired with our 2018 1st and the depth of E.Curnow, Kez, Polson, Kerr, Wright, Lamb, Boeky, BSOS, ASOS.

(insert crazy Rick Flair woo's gif)

 

[Wickzki]

I disagree. If I was Dusty and I had absolutely no future in media or as an obvious advertising role, or anything generally legal, I'd take as much money as I could get from whoever was willing to pay me. What sort of payday is he going to get after retiring as a one-club player?

Richmond will have avenues for him to go down to make it worth his while as a one club player. It's not as though he's leaving St. Kilda to go to a big traditional club. In this case he'd be doing the polar opposite.

Richmond will compensate him now and in the future.

 

[Jimmae]

That's your problem right there. There is no god... unless you are talking about Ablett senior.

Boekhorst's future is in some hack country town where the annual competition is to hurl the skinny guy over a boundary fence instead of a discus. Longest throw wins a can of fosters and a date with their own mum.

Take that shit to the St Kilda board

 

[BlueTongue]

Why? Jones' resurgence happened very late given his 3 year contract and Lamb as well.

above average KPPs are rare, mids arent

 

[Iamcarlton]

Which was obviously put in place before we started the rebuild. I don't like all this 'keep all our decent players and bring more in by trading away early draft selections' spiel that's resurfacing, it's so very 'old Carlton'.

Resurfacing ? Maybe you been away and missed the trading of Tuohy Henderson Yarran Menzel etc etc etc .
Nice story tho

 

[therubbernub]

Well worth watching from start to finish, Connors seems like a quality person. But it starts to get really interesting at 20.40 when he talks about kelly. In particular at 21.42 when he mentions how obsessed he is about premierships for his players. There is also a nugget earlier I think where he refers to a call from Gary Ablett senior, trying to prevent Judd getting to carlton.
Enjoy

 

[Blue_Fusion]

Which was obviously put in place before we started the rebuild. I don't like all this 'keep all our decent players and bring more in by trading away early draft selections' spiel that's resurfacing, it's so very 'old Carlton'.

Depends what we're trading our early picks for. Kelly is around same age as Cripps and is proven elite.

If he was 25 I would be against bringing him in for our first pick but because he's 22 and will provide much needed support for Cripps, he's worth even more than pick #3.

 

[ODNBlue]

Richmond will have avenues for him to go down to make it worth his while as a one club player. It's not as though he's leaving St. Kilda to go to a big traditional club. In this case he'd be doing the polar opposite.

Richmond will compensate him now and in the future.

I'm genuinely naive as to what avenues Richmond, or any club for that matter, might have for a retired player, especially one who lacks charisma. What sort of things are we talking about?

Assuming you're right, and there are avenues for Dusty post retirement (from Richmond) I'm still not sure i it would be worth it to stay. If the scuttlebutt is true, NM have offered Dusty $1.5M a year for 7 years and Richmond have offered $1.1M. Assuming Dusty actually plays for another 7 years at an output that would have Richmond continuing to pay him at that rate, he will be $2.8M better of going to NM. At his age, the insurance of a 7-year deal cannot be underestimated. What happens to him if he does a knee in year 3 at Richmond and never reaches the heights again? I don't know Wick, when it comes to this sort of money, can any ongoing support post-retirement really equate to this sort of payday?

Of course, a the potential Richmond premiership is worth something. I know how much I'd pay not to see it.

 

[Funk]

Yeah, there is some suggestion Robbo actually gets paid...

Calling Slobbo a "journalist" is stretching it!!!

Opinion writer who is easily led/swayed would be more accurate.

 

[Benaly28]

Well worth watching from start to finish, Connors seems like a quality person. But it starts to get really interesting at 20.40 when he talks about kelly. In particular at 21.42 when he mentions how obsessed he is about premierships for his players. There is also a nugget earlier I think where he refers to a call from Gary Ablett senior, trying to prevent Judd getting to carlton.
Enjoy

Watching that comes across that he has massive input to where players should or shouldn't go.Very smart person who knows a lot about how to manage people and build relationships.

 

[1981]

Good to see Rowe offered a new deal.
Talk of him being cut, by some posters here, was short sighted and neglected the importance of experience, strength at KPP, versatility and most importantly CULTURE

 

[Juddernaut08]

I'm genuinely naive as to what avenues Richmond, or any club for that matter, might have for a retired player, especially one who lacks charisma. What sort of things are we talking about?

Assuming you're right, and there are avenues for Dusty post retirement (from Richmond) I'm still not sure i it would be worth it to stay. If the scuttlebutt is true, NM have offered Dusty $1.5M a year for 7 years and Richmond have offered $1.1M. Assuming Dusty actually plays for another 7 years at an output that would have Richmond continuing to pay him at that rate, he will be $2.8M better of going to NM. At his age, the insurance of a 7-year deal cannot be underestimated. What happens to him if he does a knee in year 3 at Richmond and never reaches the heights again? I don't know Wick, when it comes to this sort of money, can any ongoing support post-retirement really equate to this sort of payday?

Of course, a the potential Richmond premiership is worth something. I know how much I'd pay not to see it.

As much as I hate to say it, Richmond are in a far better list position than North. North remind me so much of Carlton under Dennis Pagan. Old and make-shift.

 

[El Topo]

Any talk of a Sicily handshake deal to Carlton can be put to bed.
Apparently re-signed with The Hawks until 2020.

Never saw that one working out. Maybe a change of plan and has Hawthorn still got something for us, or all bets off?

Don't worry about it Harks, any such 'deal' was just an assumption peddled by folks on the internet who didn't understand SOS trading for multiple late picks in a deep draft.

 

[HARKER]

Good to see Rowe offered a new deal.
Talk of him being cut, by some posters here, was short sighted and neglected the importance of experience, strength at KPP, versatility and most importantly CULTURE

I was one of those short-sighted posters having said that it wouldn't surprise me if Rowe retired or was coaxed into retiring.
What has that to do with Culture? What has that to do with Strength & Versatility?

Rowe is 30 years of age and happens to play a position we have ample cover in, when he's in a position to come back at full strength.
Rowe would have a pretty good idea that when he does make his way back mid-late next next, his time will be spent in the VFL.
No-one would have blamed him for retiring, but if he wants to play VFL with the young guys, all good.

 

[Quazza]

Well worth watching from start to finish, Connors seems like a quality person. But it starts to get really interesting at 20.40 when he talks about kelly. In particular at 21.42 when he mentions how obsessed he is about premierships for his players. There is also a nugget earlier I think where he refers to a call from Gary Ablett senior, trying to prevent Judd getting to carlton.
Enjoy

found this interview quite interesting. Agreed , seems like a quality guy. Found his "i prefer my players stay at their original clubs" thing a little odd though given how many have moved

 

[DangerousD]

The rest are either only handy players or you will have to pay overs in $$$ to get them.

Just handy players? It seems you are talking quite a few of those guys down, lots are AA and premiership players and a few fill a need to our side going forward. Of course you need to pay over $$$ wise thats how FA works and thats why we have been banking our cap space.

Agree on Smith and Grey

 

[Blue Pulse]

Are they not increasing the list sizes to 50 next season due to the scrapping of the development league? This may be the reason players like White and Rowe are being offered an extra year?

 

[DangerousD]

Geelong set for clear-out as they try to claim Gary Ablett and Giant pair

This is just pro Geelong media garbage for mine. Geelong no way have enough cap space and trading assets to get all 3 players on board.
Ablett is gettable and 1 of the other 2 yes but i can't see how for both.

 

[DangerousD]

I was one of those short-sighted posters having said that it wouldn't surprise me if Rowe retired or was coaxed into retiring.
What has that to do with Culture? What has that to do with Strength & Versatility?

Rowe is 30 years of age and happens to play a position we have ample cover in, when he's in a position to come back at full strength.
Rowe would have a pretty good idea that when he does make his way back mid-late next next, his time will be spent in the VFL.
No-one would have blamed him for retiring, but if he wants to play VFL with the young guys, all good.

It interests me more that we have offered or re-signed Rowe but not CAS, it's possible that he plays forward if required to help out Charlie and H and CAS will indeed move on.

 

[HARKER]

It interests me more that we have offered or re-signed Rowe but not CAS, it's possible that he plays forward if required to help out Charlie and H and CAS will indeed move on.

Comes a time, one has to let go of the old and give the new a chance.

If Casboult was to go, it's going to be tough for a year or two for McKay, CCurnow & Weitering up front, but the idea of throwing Rowe forward smacks of a backward step to me.......and if he was to play forward it wouldn't be until at least the second half of next year.

Is there any win in that? Debatable, I guess.

 

[DangerousD]

I know this sounds a bit negative but please let's not resign Boekhurst for two more years.

Yes, in two games (only 2) he has shown some good bits of play. Bits and pieces. In others and over the years he has been here, he has shown mostly horror form, scared outside, cant hold feet, cant take a contested grab, hardly sticks a tackle, runs the boundary as close as you can, and poor kicking. Yes, he can do these things for 2/3 games to earn a 300-400k contract...but he cant sustain it.

The guy is out of contract and what we have seen this year is his absolute best. He is close enough to peak AFL age as we took him at an older age. His body wont get much bigger from here. Please, lets not fall into his trap of trying his absolute hardest for 3 matches and then have him on our list for 2 more years. Like Buckley, he gets ragdolled and cant hold his feet in any useful situation. He cant think through things like a Fisher who is so mentally quick he hardly gets caught.

We should thank him and he can thrive back in the WAFL. Wayne Hughes, again, **** you very much.

When looking to retain a player you have to look at a decent body of work. He just doesnt have that. LJ was a change of position and a larger stretch of games...and is also still a risk come the new season that he might revert now that he has got a contract.

Go baggers and sign Cuningham fast. Love that guy. hits hard, can kick.

100% disagree with based based on a few things.

1. Blaine has shown this year in the AFL and VFL that he has improved considerably compared to last year, last week being his best game (27 touches). Showing he hasn't peaked at all. IMO you don't cut guys who are still improving.

2. More importantly there are so many players before him to cut Buckly, Palmer, Goringe, Army, Galluci, Sumner, Korcheck, Sheehan, KJ, Graham. In a supposed weak draft where we don't have a 2nd round pick it would be bad to cut more than 9-10 guys.

3. Dispute that he is a bad kick and he is quite creative.

Agree maybe not 2 years but would be happy with 1. If he doesn't keep improving next year then its over. If he does again he gets a better deal.

 

[goreds]

Which was obviously put in place before we started the rebuild. I don't like all this 'keep all our decent players and bring more in by trading away early draft selections' spiel that's resurfacing, it's so very 'old Carlton'.

*see geelong list!

 

[DangerousD]

Comes a time, one has to let go of the old and give the new a chance.

If Casboult was to go, it's going to be tough for a year or two for McKay, CCurnow & Weitering up front, but the idea of throwing Rowe forward smacks of a backward step to me.......and if he was to play forward it wouldn't be until at least the second half of next year.

Is there any win in that? Debatable, I guess.

I personally don't think the big mature body is needed if both H and Curnow are playing, Moore really struggled due to being the only option and a poor game plan. Im starting to believe that Cas being there encourages long kick and hope entries as well.

 

[BlueTongue]

Calling Slobbo a "journalist" is stretching it!!!

Opinion writer who is easily led/swayed would be more accurate.

More like shit slinger