Analysis 2017 List Management Discussion Part II

[HBF]

Hopper is going to Geelong apparently.

Alot of water to go under the bridge until trade week.

 

[HereComesJuddy]

No.

Next minute Dusty signs with the blues.
Aph opens a "Welcome to Carlton Dustin Martin" thread

 

[RudyBlue]

In one of DOC interview, he said the club aware of the blame Plowman gets from small forwards goals but said that:
1. it is a team defence, not one single person fault
2. Plowman useably the one closed to the small forwards when they kick for goal as he is the one to react and get back first

I really love listen to DOC interviews, so clear of team directions, instructions, structures, where team heading etc...

Next captain for me. Cripps VC

 

[The Facepainter]

I was really surprised to see L. Fogerty slipping all the way down to 22 in that list.

There is no way that we would ever get Rayner unless he did something seriously stupid just before the draft. I would be happy with either LDU or Darcy Fogerty at this point.

And it seems that Worpel has disappeared off the radar of everyone.[/QUOTE
Buy him a drink?

 

[james Dean]

Weitering is our best match up for small forwards IMO. He has the positional smarts and composure to keep them under control which Plowman doesn't.

I see Weits as a Darren Glass type

 

[Metalcrusher]

Alot of buses to park under the bridge until trade week.

Fixed for Lloyd.

 

[FoeverBlues]

http://freako.championdata.com/2017/Fantasy_Freako_Rd_15.pdf

Bryce Gibbs doesn’t receive the recognition he deserves. Since 2014, only Luke Shuey, Nat Fyfe and Patrick Dangerfield have scored more goals among midfielders in H&A rounds. Gibbs is having a super season, averaging a career-high 28 disposals, six tackles and 119 points.

 

[Aphrodite]

So what are you prepared to give up for kelly?

I'm saying no to Fyfe/Martin as free agents.

Nothing to do with Kelly.

 

[Mr_Plow]

Weitering is our best match up for small forwards IMO. He has the positional smarts and composure to keep them under control which Plowman doesn't.

I see Weits as a Darren Glass type

Speed + turning circle = not ideal.

 

[No1Suspect]

Of

What if we get kelly for Gibbs and Casboult, then sign Fyfe or Martin as a free agent, pick brander or Rayner in this years draft and then What ever we are lacking from next year mega draft and ben SOS.

Please be realistic

 

[Unknown Origin]

We will not let Gibbs go for donuts.

Sorry by 'Donuts' I meant a mid 1st round draft pick. IMO that aint going to cut the mustard for prob our best midfielder.

I strongly believe if gibbs goes we need an established player of the same quality to replace him, not a speculative draft pick.

 

[katmanblue]

Plowman is a tricky one.

I love his disposal by foot and his one-on-one aerial defence. However, at times he has brain fades and commits errors in crucial parts of the ground. Mind you, he is still young and Marchbank/Weiters also make mistakes occasionally.

I do think he is suited to play on a third tall more so than the gun small forwards of the competition. But we have so many slightly better options to use. This makes his place in the team shaky IMO.

I met him out once and he isn't the brightest bulb on the Christmas tree. However, he's a good kid and has a bit of cheek which I like. I really hope he continues to develop and hold his spot but it wouldn't surprise me if he becomes a back-up option as others grow and mature (Macreadie).

I reckon Marchy makes more mistakes than Plow but thats ok because he is younger. I hope they just improve steadily, we don't really need anything too drasict because both started as good players.

On SM-N920I using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[Blue_Fusion]

As usual, I have a new favourite plan (I come up with one every week by the look of things)

This week it's:

Gibbs > Crows
#15 + #18 (Cameron to Lions trade) > Blues

#15 + #18 > Hawks
Hawks 2018 1st > Blues

#3 + #22 (Casboult compo) > GWS
Kelly > Blues

We'll no doubt go back a little next year with that. Hawks will back themselves to climb but I will back them to fall.

2018 draft:

#3 (Hawks) + #5 (Blues) = 2 GUN young mids

2019:
Shiel (FA) > Blues
GWS > Packet of salty chips

2020 Team:

Byrne Weitering Plowman

Docherty Marchbank Williamson

SPS Cripps <2018 #3>

J.Silvagni C.Curnow Cuningham

Fisher H.McKay Murphy

Kreuzer J.Kelly Shiel

<2018 #5> E.Curnow <2018 #26> <2019 1st>

Depth:

Jones (If he can keep his form going for the next 3 years he'd be a certain starter but not sure if he will do that)
ASOS (Will be his last season imo)
Macreadie (Won't be better than Marchbank or Weitering, he could take Plowman's spot)
B.Silvagni (Still learning the ropes)
Polson (Will find it very hard to break into THAT midfield)
W.Hickmott (As above)
Pickett (Lacks the heart. Could change but still a decent talent to have as backup)

I think Fisher may become a pretty good small forward. He has speed, he puts defensive pressure on, always has a go. We need some speed in that forward line and Fisher certainly provides that.

Just look at the midfield depth. It's crazy. Cripps, Kelly, Shiel, SPS and Cuningham will all be in their peak. They'll have two veterans in Ed and Murphy and then there's the 2 gun mids we draft in 2018. 6 potentially elite players in the middle. That's what we need.

 

[TheHeatleyStand]

#3 and Murphy would be great
Two picks, like 14 16 for Gibbs great which I would give one for hopper
And one more of those with casboult pick around 21 for a forward or a midfielder if possible would be nice to shake to the team's DNA

 

[jezzzza]

Hey guys,

To aid in our discussions here, I've created a live Google spreadsheet (that I'll update weekly) with the VFL team stats:

VFL Stats

To sort the data you will need to click on the filter icon shown below:



Just so it's easy to access average VFL stats for those stuck in the magoos

 

[F_therest]

As usual, I have a new favourite plan (I come up with one every week by the look of things)

This week it's:

Gibbs > Crows
#15 + #18 (Cameron to Lions trade) > Blues

#15 + #18 > Hawks
Hawks 2018 1st > Blues

#3 + #22 (Casboult compo) > GWS
Kelly > Blues

We'll no doubt go back a little next year with that. Hawks will back themselves to climb but I will back them to fall.

2018 draft:

#3 (Hawks) + #5 (Blues) = 2 GUN young mids

2019:
Shiel (FA) > Blues
GWS > Packet of salty chips

2020 Team:

Byrne Weitering Plowman

Docherty Marchbank Williamson

SPS Cripps <2018 #3>

J.Silvagni C.Curnow Cuningham

Fisher H.McKay Murphy

Kreuzer J.Kelly Shiel

<2018 #5> E.Curnow <2018 #26> <2019 1st>

Depth:

Jones (If he can keep his form going for the next 3 years he'd be a certain starter but not sure if he will do that)
ASOS (Will be his last season imo)
Macreadie (Won't be better than Marchbank or Weitering, he could take Plowman's spot)
B.Silvagni (Still learning the ropes)
Polson (Will find it very hard to break into THAT midfield)
W.Hickmott (As above)
Pickett (Lacks the heart. Could change but still a decent talent to have as backup)

I think Fisher may become a pretty good small forward. He has speed, he puts defensive pressure on, always has a go. We need some speed in that forward line and Fisher certainly provides that.

Just look at the midfield depth. It's crazy. Cripps, Kelly, Shiel, SPS and Cuningham will all be in their peak. They'll have two veterans in Ed and Murphy and then there's the 2 gun mids we draft in 2018. 6 potentially elite players in the middle. That's what we need.

Hawks trade way too risky... And wouldn't want to lose Gibbs then not even use the picks we get in return until next year.

Must involve those picks or one in trade for someone like Hopper. If not go go draft with them as is.

 

[Neku]

Alright so, let's say that we move on Gibbs and that Casboult leaves, where does that leave our forward line? Assuming we use the picks to get Kelly and Hopper strengthening our midfield, who will fill in the gaps? Are either Kelly or Hopper goal kicking mids?

Perhaps we move Weitering into a more forward position?

 

[dumb]

Alright so, let's say that we move on Gibbs and that Casboult leaves, where does that leave our forward line? Assuming we use the picks to get Kelly and Hopper strengthening our midfield, who will fill in the gaps? Are either Kelly or Hopper goal kicking mids?

Perhaps we move Weitering into a more forward position?

an even worse shape if someone like jaksch's papers are stamped. if casboult leaves it's not hard to imagine us picking up someone else's sloppy kpf seconds.

but, use those 6 first rounders from adelaide for gibbs wisely and we'll be set up for the next 50 years -
- inside-out goal-kicking mid who can also have a run in the forward line
- pacy half-forward with neat goal-kicking who can also have a run through the middle
- courageous simpson replacement who can run through the middle after mopping up in the back half. can also kick a handy goal
- tall, elite endurance centre-half forward who must be able to play on the wing when we need some numbers roaming around the middle of the ground, but can also kick a goal
- inside-out ruckman who can rest forward or play as an extra ruck-rover, and kick the odd goal while drifting back as a tall defender
- pacy defender who can play anywhere on the ground, including the middle if necessary, but also likes a sneaky foray forward for a goal

 

[Big Red is back]

Weitering is our best match up for small forwards IMO. He has the positional smarts and composure to keep them under control which Plowman doesn't.

I see Weits as a Darren Glass type

Not sure he has the leg speed - prefer Ploughman on those types

 

[Big Red is back]

Alright so, let's say that we move on Gibbs and that Casboult leaves, where does that leave our forward line? Assuming we use the picks to get Kelly and Hopper strengthening our midfield, who will fill in the gaps? Are either Kelly or Hopper goal kicking mids?

Perhaps we move Weitering into a more forward position?

Loads depends on big Harry McKay - we need him to atleast be a decent player - not sure you need a superstar forward to win flag - dogs won without one

 

[Big Red is back]

Hawks trade way too risky... And wouldn't want to lose Gibbs then not even use the picks we get in return until next year.

Must involve those picks or one in trade for someone like Hopper. If not go go draft with them as is.

Much depends on how close crows get to a flag - ideally they make a prelim - reality is they have a weak midfield and desperately need to improve it - I think their first pick and second pick for Gibbs and our third pick would be possible

 

[Blue_Fusion]

Hawks trade way too risky... And wouldn't want to lose Gibbs then not even use the picks we get in return until next year.

Must involve those picks or one in trade for someone like Hopper. If not go go draft with them as is.

Why don't you want to wait 1 season? What's the hurry? Not like we're going to win a flag next year.

It's about getting the process right so that we are a formidable unit for years.

Like I said, Hawks will back themselves to climb next year, but chances are they're going down even further.

If it does end up being a 2018 pick #3 for Gibbs we will be laughing vs #15+#18 this year.

Quality over quantity and patience. Two key factors to building a strong team.

 

[HARKER]

Why don't you want to wait 1 season? What's the hurry? Not like we're going to win a flag next year.
It's about getting the process right so that we are a formidable unit for years.
Like I said, Hawks will back themselves to climb next year, but chances are they're going down even further.
If it does end up being a 2018 pick #3 for Gibbs we will be laughing vs #15+#18 this year.

Quality over quantity and patience. Two key factors to building a strong team.

It's all in the planning and when to have as many pieces in place as possible and if it means letting go of an early first this year instead of a mid-table first next year, then fine, but the way some are talking about next years draft, you'd think there are Chris Judds and Dangerfields from picks 1 - 10.

We'll see what happens, but I still see us letting go of next years first in favour of this years first, if it comes to Kelly/Hopper.
......and you just know that the draft of 2019 will be so much better than '18's.......and after everything, we're talking about one player........just one.

 

[cookie monster]

It's all in the planning and when to have as many pieces in place as possible and if it means letting go of an early first this year instead of a mid-table first next year, then fine, but the way some are talking about next years draft, you'd think there are Chris Judds and Dangerfields from picks 1 - 10.

We'll see what happens, but I still see us letting go of next years first in favour of this years first, if it comes to Kelly/Hopper.
......and you just know that the draft of 2019 will be so much better than '18's.......and after everything, we're talking about one player........just one.

Don't mind the line of thinking. All pundits saying depth of next year's draft is better than this years, but I don't think depth is a consideration when talking about first round picks. Talent in the first round is generally similar from draft to draft, so would make a lot of sense in keeping this year's first over next years. Particularly more so given we would probably back ourselves to finish 6-10th on the ladder.

 

[GapInIkonPark]

Anyone see Barrett on the Footy Show last night? Dusty and manager are stiill sooking at Richmond for giving a lower contract to Dusty after GWS and other clubs passed on him last time round ...