Analysis 2017 List Management Discussion Part II

[Soapy V]

Extending the deal is long term thinking.

I don't agree. He still has a couple of years to go and he is in his prime now. We don't have to let him go. He is well paid and was happy with his contract at the time. Why do we have to give him more?

 

[Azul]

Pretty simple really, either Gibbs wants to remain a Carlton player or he doesn't.

 

[Soapy V]

Pretty simple really, either Gibbs wants to remain a Carlton player or he doesn't.

and then whether we want him to stay or let him go. I'm not fussed either way. These days I am confident the club will do whatever is best for the club.

 

[LordLucifer]

Here's some food for thought.

Gibbs was signed to a 5-year deal somewhere in the vicinity of $550K per annum. The club front-loaded the deal so he was paid way more in the first two years, for argument sake, let's say it was $850K in those two years, this means that he would be getting $350K for the final three years (speculating on the actual numbers but they are irrelevant right now).

If Adelaide had of been able to secure him last year (spitballing ..............3-year deal on $700K per annum) then he would of had a huge payrise due to the Blues doing him (and them) a favour with the front-loading.

Seems a little unfair on Carlton that they have coughed up the bulk of their 5-year deal only to see him leave when the annual figure drops.

So, should there be some sort of compensation back to Carlton (or any club for that matter) who finds themselves in that position ??

 

[Azul]

and then whether we want him to stay or let him go. I'm not fussed either way. These days I am confident the club will do whatever is best for the club.

Someone speculated last year was that he and his manager had been 'naughty' by signing a front-loaded contract and that this "blame the girlfriend" was only a smokescreen for accepting more dollars at Adelaide once the money tailed off on his current contract. Club loyalty be darned. If that's the case then I'd thank him for his service and pay for a taxi to the airport.

If that's not the case, I'd expect him to honour the contract without complaint.

 

[Arr0w]

Here's some food for thought.

Gibbs was signed to a 5-year deal somewhere in the vicinity of $550K per annum. The club front-loaded the deal so he was paid way more in the first two years, for argument sake, let's say it was $850K in those two years, this means that he would be getting $350K for the final three years (speculating on the actual numbers but they are irrelevant right now).

If Adelaide had of been able to secure him last year (spitballing ..............3-year deal on $700K per annum) then he would of had a huge payrise due to the Blues doing him (and them) a favour with the front-loading.

Seems a little unfair on Carlton that they have coughed up the bulk of their 5-year deal only to see him leave when the annual figure drops.

So, should there be some sort of compensation back to Carlton (or any club for that matter) who finds themselves in that position ??

Valid point, but each situation is different

• We were bereft of talent and had to spend the cap on someone.
• May have front ended other contracts as above
• The above was done so we could use 110% cap next year, chasing free agents

As for compensation, a trade, to a club like Adelaide or Port for that matter, who would be desperate to win a flag with the talent they have at the moment, would ensure, more than a market value, would be in our favour

 

[BluesRule]

We may have offered a deal - doesn't mean Bryce wants to make a decision on it now. He probably wants to wait it out and focus on playing good footy this year, and come season's end he and his family can make their decision. Better for all involved if any conversations take place behind closed doors, because us publicly making an offer and him "delaying talks" or "rejecting the offer" creates an immediate headline that Bryce is on the move.

Great that Byrce is playing well and if he decides to ask to leave and does the right thing by CFC in helping us get what is fair from Adelaide then everybody is happy. CFC have said what they want, Bryce is showing his value, it is now up to Adelaide to pay a fair price or he stays IMO.

 

[HBF]

Based on whats happened over the past few weeks, I think we can only say that there are 3 definite delistings at years end. Armfield, Buckley and Gorringe are almost certainly gone, but with Jones' form down back, Boekhorst getting another crack at senior level, and Graham showing some signs of improvement, it may be quite an interesting time for players who come out of contract at years end.

 

[BluStreak]

.......
There is still a long way to go but the transformation of our club from 20 months ago is remarkable. Bolton and SOS (and maybe Brodie too?) have been excellent.

Don't forget Trigg and LG as they have kept the backroom boys from playing.

 

[rog1995]

Big fan of Bryce and I really want him to stay.
I'm not usually a fan of Jon Ralph but he made a good point this week.
Why are we not offering Bryce a new deal? One that extends his current deal and increases his money?

Part of the desire to move home can be negated by making sure he will make more money by staying.

This is done all the time in the soccer leagues to ward off interest from other clubs.

Because he still has two years to run on an existing contract. Why would we extend his contract now?

 

[DangerousD]

Makes no sense to re-sign Gibbs to a longer contract at this point.

Let's all be honest for a moment, he is very talented, but do we want to retain him because he is a bigger body, leader etc, or because he helps us to win some games short-term?

I don't want to lose any senior, talented, leaders of our club, but nor do I want to retain all of them, thinking we already have the nucleus of a premiership side. There would be no doubt, that he would still be considering a trade home, despite the comments from the club suggesting otherwise.

The benefit medium/long term of trading him, outweighs the short term benefits of keeping him

By extending his deal you are thinking long term not short. He is contracted until 2019 by extending you are wanting him there beyond that. How is signing someone for 2020 and beyond doing it for short term wins?

 

[rog1995]

Great that Byrce is playing well and if he decides to ask to leave and does the right thing by CFC in helping us get what is fair from Adelaide then everybody is happy. CFC have said what they want, Bryce is showing his value, it is now up to Adelaide to pay a fair price or he stays IMO.

Adelaide will have to pay overs due to him being contracted. Crows now know SOS doesn't bluff.

 

[DangerousD]

I don't agree. He still has a couple of years to go and he is in his prime now. We don't have to let him go. He is well paid and was happy with his contract at the time. Why do we have to give him more?

We don't have too, I just think it would be good to have him locked away long term.
I want to add players to what we have and feel he will play well in to his 30"s.

I think it would be good for the club.

 

[Aphrodite]

Andy McKay on Gibbs:-

 

[Arr0w]

By extending his deal you are thinking long term not short. He is contracted until 2019 by extending you are wanting him there beyond that. How is signing someone for 2020 and beyond doing it for short term wins?

It is short term, because retaining one player, over drafting/trading for 2-3 other players, that will improve our side as a collective.

Why extend the contract of a player, that could lead us to finals then not be around to seal the deal of a premiership? We have other senior players that will carve that path for our youth.

 

[DangerousD]

Because he still has two years to run on an existing contract. Why would we extend his contract now?

The same reason we extended Weiterings and SPS"s deals.

 

[HarryFlashman]

the best solution is to extend Gibbs contract (2yrs) give him the extra coin (he's worth it) & it alleviates some of the cap we need to spend & it puts us in a position where if he does request to go, we are in the best possible position to negotiate an awesome deal. All deals are about leverage
At the same time, give Kruz some extra coin- he deserves it .
It would also be prudent to start locking away our backline long term- kpp cost an absolute bomb to bring in, pay them well now, when we have the cap space and when renegotiation time comes, we are contending and theywill hopefully take under market to stay at the club.

 

[DangerousD]

It is short term, because retaining one player, over drafting/trading for 2-3 other players, that will improve our side as a collective.

Why extend the contract of a player, that could lead us to finals then not be around to seal the deal of a premiership? We have other senior players that will carve that path for our youth.

How are you magically turning Bryce in to 3 players?

He can easily play for another 5 plus years. If we aren't challenging in that time we have failed

 

[BluesRule]

How are you magically turning Bryce in to 3 players?

He can easily play for another 5 plus years. If we aren't challenging in that time we have failed

In two years Byrce is a free agent. He may not want to sign an extension now as he may get more $$ then (post CBA) if he is still playing well.

 

[Arr0w]

How are you magically turning Bryce in to 3 players?

He can easily play for another 5 plus years. If we aren't challenging in that time we have failed

I said, 2-3. A 1st + 2nd + possibly a player?

Your impatience is showing. I believe, we will more than likely make the 8 in 2020, after that, it is a whole new ball game.

How many finals appearances have the Swans been involved in in the last 2 decades for 2 premierships? You know it's not that easy.

 

[DangerousD]

I said, 2-3. A 1st + 2nd + possibly a player?

Your impatience is showing. I believe, we will more than likely make the 8 in 2020, after that, it is a whole new ball game.

How many finals appearances have the Swans been involved in in the last 2 decades for 2 premierships? You know it's not that easy.

Defiantly know it's not easy, but also know that it works the other way, yes the Swans won two but have lost 3, they gave themselves every pppurtunity to win.

I'm not sure how you can say I'm impatient. I'm suggesting our club signs Gibbs for a further 2-3 years. That's 5 seasons from the start of next year.

I roughly agree with your timeline I think we can challenge in 2020 who knows about next year. But I want Gibbs there.

 

[DangerousD]

I said, 2-3. A 1st + 2nd + possibly a player?

Your impatience is showing. I believe, we will more than likely make the 8 in 2020, after that, it is a whole new ball game.

How many finals appearances have the Swans been involved in in the last 2 decades for 2 premierships? You know it's not that easy.

Swans have played in 5 out of the last 12 grand finals, their side that won their 1st was totally different to the one that lost last year.
I don't mind that Gibbs might only be there for 1-2 cracks

 

[Arr0w]

Defiantly know it's not easy, but also know that it works the other way, yes the Swans won two but have lost 3, they gave themselves every pppurtunity to win.

I'm not sure how you can say I'm impatient. I'm suggesting our club signs Gibbs for a further 2-3 years. That's 5 seasons from the start of next year.

I roughly agree with your timeline I think we can challenge in 2020 who knows about next year. But I want Gibbs there.

I understand and respect your preferences, I just hope he doesn't say I will see out this contract if you don't want to trade me and we end up getting less for him, plus we are another 2 years behind from putting games into another kid.

Sure we will both see what happens at the end of the year

 

[Pafloyul]

Is josh kelly not stand out talent, there aren't many who are better

Not the point, he's not a KPF (which we arguably need) and he's only one player. I say we go after him only if Gibbs goes, unless this year's first rounder and steak knifes gets it done. Hopper will be a bit easier. The idea of getting Kelly makes us bring out the same logic we used when we traded in Judd, if we get him in, we don't need to address other issues.

 

[Pafloyul]

Extending the deal is long term thinking.