Analysis 2017 List Management Discussion Part II

[TheHeatleyStand]

This would be the best outcome possible for Carlton.

In order for Casboult to even consider the possibility of Fremantle over Richmond, there would need to be a substantial salary increase.

This in turn would strengthen the possibility of a better compensatory pick (likely move it to Band 2 territory).

Hopefully sparks a bidding war lol

 

[Blue__Balls]

The apparent lack of a tank rayner has puts me off...without a tank he will never reach great Heights at afl level...not as a midfielder anyway.

People just say oh he will develop his tank...but you see that said about so many players and they barely improve.

Yeah, the thing is I can see him being a hugely effective forward 50 specialist anyway. Even if he never builds enough of a tank to run out games in the midfield, he could spend 70% of his time up forward, rotating through the middle a couple of times a quarter, and kick 2-3 goals a game.

 

[GapInIkonPark]

I think they might see him as at his positional peak (ie. not really an outside or clearance mid) and want to open up a spot on the forward line to rotate genuine mids.

In that case, he's probably asking for more money than they want to shell out for that, when they can start dropping kids and mids into the forward unit in place of him. Devon Smith is another.

Think Greene would be a midfielder in most teams. GWS midfield bats very deep (let go of Treloar).
AA forward in any event.
Would be very happy with Greene at Carlton.

Kicked 0.5 against us, not what he would normally kick from 5 shots. Billings kicked 5.0 against us and wouldn't normally do that either.

 

[GapInIkonPark]

... My expectations currently:
...
Re-signed: Cuningham, Simpson, Rowe, Sumner, Thomas, Kreuzer, Jones, Buckley
Delisted: Boekhorst, Lamb, Jaksch, Armfield, Graham, Gorringe, White
FA: Casboult
Delisted rookies: Gallucci, Korcheck, JGM, Sheehan

I'd be surprised if Palmer, Marchbank and Smedts are uncontracted for 2018, we just don't know what the new contract terms are.

Swap Buckley (to delist) and Graham (to re-signed).
Lamb we retain too.

 

[GapInIkonPark]

This is Lamb's 7th year in the AFL and he still isn't an automatic selection. If we are serious about moving up the ladder blokes like this need to be delisted.

I think he was close to best 22 on what he was showing in GWS and Gold Coast games before the KO.

Retired: Armfield, White
Delist: Gorringe, Jaksch, Buckley, Boekhorst
FA out: Casboult
Trade: Gibbs

Palmer, Kerridge and Smedts still contracted.

Graham, Jones, Rowe, Lamb, Sumner all get 1 year contracts.

Rookies: delist JGM, Korcheck and Gallucci. Keep ASOS, Sheehan and Lebois.

Simpson plays on.

 

[GapInIkonPark]

It's close, but I just value Buckley's athleticism over Lamb's lack thereof.

Lamb's definitely the smarter player on the field, but I'm still holding out hope that Dylan's going to have a lightbulb moment. That being said, I think he is heavily out-of-favour, or he would have got a start this week.

Sorry Jimmae, I know he is one of your favourites, but I think Buckley is gone.
We could do with a small running defender in the Senior 22.
Buckley makes poor decisions with the ball and is simply not in the frame for Senior selection.
Lamb is getting games when fit and is playing well, and is pushing up to the wing as well as playing the small pressure forward role.

 

[HavUEvaSeenTheRain]

I think he was close to best 22 on what he was showing in GWS and Gold Coast games before the KO.

Retired: Armfield, White
Delist: Gorringe, Jaksch, Buckley, Boekhorst
FA out: Casboult
Trade: Gibbs

Palmer, Kerridge and Smedts still contracted.

Graham, Jones, Rowe, Lamb, Sumner all get 1 year contracts.

Rookies: delist JGM, Korcheck and Gallucci. Keep ASOS, Sheehan and Lebois.

Simpson plays on.

That's how I see it. Thomas also on one year.
That's why I think we need to delist/retire more then 5 this season. That's 15 players and with Simpson a chance to retire at the end of next season that's a list of 16. All of those need a good year next season or they should be delisted. If only 4 or 5 of them go then we could have a situation of having 10 players needing to be delisted next year. If we delist at least six or seven then we have not only a chance to find a diamond in the rough (which will be there) but also make sure we don't have to take ten picks in the draft next season. Best case scenario some of those players come on but then we still won't find it hard to make at least 5 delistings next year which is still a good amount.

 

[GapInIkonPark]

That's how I see it. Thomas also on one year.
That's why I think we need to delist/retire more then 5 this season. That's 15 players and with Simpson a chance to retire at the end of next season that's a list of 16. All of those need a good year next season or they should be delisted. If only 4 or 5 of them go then we could have a situation of having 10 players needing to be delisted next year. If we delist at least six or seven then we have not only a chance to find a diamond in the rough (which will be there) but also make sure we don't have to take ten picks in the draft next season. Best case scenario some of those players come on but then we still won't find it hard to make at least 5 delistings next year which is still a good amount.

Agree.
Thoughts on Rowe to the rookie list?

I think we will only use 4 picks in the draft with no second round pick and the draft pool reportedly shallow. Can't see us taking 5 like 2015 or 6 like 2016.

So maybe we have just the 6-8 changes to the Senior list this year, take a delisted free agent or 2 (can we find another Wrighty?), get another pre-season and lots of games into our young players (including Pickett, Macreadie, McKay, Kerr and Polson), keep all our picks for the 2018 draft, and complete the cleanout before the 2019 season.

 

[ray8182]

I think he was close to best 22 on what he was showing in GWS and Gold Coast games before the KO.

Retired: Armfield, White
Delist: Gorringe, Jaksch, Buckley, Boekhorst
FA out: Casboult
Trade: Gibbs

Palmer, Kerridge and Smedts still contracted.

Graham, Jones, Rowe, Lamb, Sumner all get 1 year contracts.

Rookies: delist JGM, Korcheck and Gallucci. Keep ASOS, Sheehan and Lebois.

Simpson plays on.

Pretty much agree with that assessment except for Graham. Would rather take a chance with an 18 year old than keep Graham. He's already been on the list a year too long.

The other issue l have is the assessment of the draft and how it is likely to be shallow and how that affects the number of picks we take. It's currently rated a shallow draft but it needs to be remembered that these kids are still developing. It is possible that they just haven't matured as quickly as last years group. The talent may just be harder to identify. How good the draft year actually is will only be known in a few years.

Thus l think we need to be cautious about not taking enough picks. The quality of the draft is not known with certainty.


On iPad using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[Soapy V]

Re-signed: Cuningham, Simpson, Rowe, Sumner, Thomas, Kreuzer, Jones, Buckley
Retained: LeBois
Upgraded: A.Silvagni

Delisted: Boekhorst, Lamb, Jaksch, Armfield, Graham, Gorringe, White
FA: Casboult
Delisted rookies: Gallucci, Korcheck, JGM, Sheehan

I think this is around the mark. Some players will be hanging on until the trade period is over.

IMO Thomas & Buckley will struggle to be there next year. Boekhurst Jaksch Gorringe Armfield are the most in trouble. Graham Palmer & White are borderline. Sheehan could well get an upgrade if he shows something over the next 4-6 weeks. No need to upgrade Alex with changes to rookie rules

Still think there will be around 8 plus changes. Even though we have had a lot of improvement our list still needs a lot of work and I'm sure SOS & Bolton know that

 

[HARKER]

Sheehan won't be de-listed. I don't think that's even possible, as we've resigned him on as a Cat B.

Unfortunately for Boekhorst, he was given a chance but chose not to take it. That's going to hurt him.

 

[No1Suspect]

We wont cut 10 ppl, for me it will be measured for the purpose of keeping the VFL competitive as well, our kids are developing great because of this. No point stripping it back to its bare bones.

As for greene, if your unaware of his fathers shenanigans, not someone i would want around the club.

 

[Keyza]

Channel 7 news last night reported that Collingwood are keen on Casboult. At this rate there may be a bidding war and any compo for us is looking pretty good. If he does go it will leave a huge hole in our forward line and our back up ruck. I hope he stays as I dont want to think about what our forward line will look like without him.

 

[Jimmae]

Think Greene would be a midfielder in most teams. GWS midfield bats very deep (let go of Treloar).
AA forward in any event.
Would be very happy with Greene at Carlton.

Kicked 0.5 against us, not what he would normally kick from 5 shots. Billings kicked 5.0 against us and wouldn't normally do that either.

I don't agree, and I fail to see what qualities he brings that will see him excel either outside or inside a midfield contest. He's an old school winger, which these days makes you either a HBF or a HFF.

He's a very good one, but they have a raft of blokes who can do both, and guys like Cumming, Tizani and Taranto ready to go.

PS - Please

Swap Buckley (to delist) and Graham (to re-signed).
Lamb we retain too.

Again, I doubt it. I've covered my issues with Lamb and believe that Buckley is on a knife's edge also. Graham has been done to death and it's time to move on from him.

PS - use

Sorry Jimmae, I know he is one of your favourites, but I think Buckley is gone.
We could do with a small running defender in the Senior 22.
Buckley makes poor decisions with the ball and is simply not in the frame for Senior selection.
Lamb is getting games when fit and is playing well, and is pushing up to the wing as well as playing the small pressure forward role.

I'm getting the impression that you move from post to post with little memory of the discussion thread preceding it.

PS - multi-quote

I think this is around the mark. Some players will be hanging on until the trade period is over.

IMO Thomas & Buckley will struggle to be there next year. Boekhurst Jaksch Gorringe Armfield are the most in trouble. Graham Palmer & White are borderline. Sheehan could well get an upgrade if he shows something over the next 4-6 weeks. No need to upgrade Alex with changes to rookie rules

Still think there will be around 8 plus changes. Even though we have had a lot of improvement our list still needs a lot of work and I'm sure SOS & Bolton know that

Good point RE: the rookie list, but I'm not sure what that means given once he's activated he's effectively paid on the senior list. I guess it's just another ND pick rather than RD pick.

Sheehan won't be de-listed. I don't think that's even possible, as we've resigned him on as a Cat B.

Unfortunately for Boekhorst, he was given a chance but chose not to take it. That's going to hurt him.

Cat B doesn't protect him from being dumped, it just sets him aside from the regular rookie listing rules somewhat. If we've given him a two year deal, that's another story.

 

[GapInIkonPark]

I don't agree, and I fail to see what qualities he brings that will see him excel either outside or inside a midfield contest. He's an old school winger, which these days makes you either a HBF or a HFF.

He's a very good one, but they have a raft of blokes who can do both, and guys like Cumming, Tizani and Taranto ready to go.

PS - Please


Again, I doubt it. I've covered my issues with Lamb and believe that Buckley is on a knife's edge also. Graham has been done to death and it's time to move on from him.

PS - use


I'm getting the impression that you move from post to post with little memory of the discussion thread preceding it.

PS - multi-quote


Good point RE: the rookie list, but I'm not sure what that means given once he's activated he's effectively paid on the senior list. I guess it's just another ND pick rather than RD pick.


Cat B doesn't protect him from being dumped, it just sets him aside from the regular rookie listing rules somewhat. If we've given him a two year deal, that's another story.

I find the multi-quote annoying. Just me.
IMO, it is easier to deal with one post and reply to that, especially if others continue the conversation.
Also, my memory is very long Jimmae.

 

[HARKER]

Cat B doesn't protect him from being dumped, it just sets him aside from the regular rookie listing rules somewhat. If we've given him a two year deal, that's another story.

I understood that signing a Cat B had a minimum term of 3 years. It may be 2 now, though.
Sheehan was re-signed as a Cat B last year...........but whichever way; He won't be delisted.

 

[HARKER]

Channel 7 news last night reported that Collingwood are keen on Casboult. At this rate there may be a bidding war and any compo for us is looking pretty good. If he does go it will leave a huge hole in our forward line and our back up ruck. I hope he stays as I dont want to think about what our forward line will look like without him.

They don't seem to have a lot of faith in one Reid, so maybe not quite as keen on another.

Would be sort of funny should Casboult attract a bidding war.

 

[passmark]

Sorry Jimmae, I know he is one of your favourites, but I think Buckley is gone.
We could do with a small running defender in the Senior 22.
Buckley makes poor decisions with the ball and is simply not in the frame for Senior selection.
Lamb is getting games when fit and is playing well, and is pushing up to the wing as well as playing the small pressure forward role.

Yeah, I think the dream may be over.

Having said that I think theres still a good chance he'll get a run before the end of the season.

Unfortunately for Dylan there's probably 10 mids who we could turn into back pocket players running around in the VFL, WAFL and SANFL.

 

[HavUEvaSeenTheRain]

Agree.
Thoughts on Rowe to the rookie list?

I think we will only use 4 picks in the draft with no second round pick and the draft pool reportedly shallow. Can't see us taking 5 like 2015 or 6 like 2016.

So maybe we have just the 6-8 changes to the Senior list this year, take a delisted free agent or 2 (can we find another Wrighty?), get another pre-season and lots of games into our young players (including Pickett, Macreadie, McKay, Kerr and Polson), keep all our picks for the 2018 draft, and complete the cleanout before the 2019 season.

I think there is plenty ahead of him to be delisted ATM. Next season if Casboult does go I would think he should to keep him as back up for the extra year

 

[Jimmae]

I understood that signing a Cat B had a minimum term of 3 years. It may be 2 now, though.
Sheehan was re-signed as a Cat B last year...........but whichever way; He won't be delisted.

If he was a fresh international recruit, it was and has always been 2 years, but he's not. We got special dispensation for the move.

 

[HARKER]

Trigg on SEN saying that they've committed to going into the draft for three years.........2 down......1 to go.
Just re-inforcing everything everything else the CFC have been saying.
Keen on elite young talent, also......cough.....Kelly.

1. SOS has final say on recruiting/drafting decisions.
2. We have to go to the board for ticking-off, on players over 500K per year.
3. Gibbs to stay at the club. Sounds confident to me.

 

[HARKER]

If he was a fresh international recruit, it was and has always been 2 years, but he's not. We got special dispensation for the move.

Is that fact or are you guessing?

 

[I AM CARLTON]

Trigg on SEN saying that they've committed to going into the draft for three years.........2 down......1 to go.
Just re-inforcing everything everything else the CFC have been saying.
Keen on elite young talent, also......cough.....Kelly.

1. SOS has final say on recruiting/drafting decisions.
2. We have to go to the board for ticking-off, on players over 500K per year.
3. Gibbs to stay at the club. Sounds confident to me.

Interesting so if we are definetly going to the draft for 3 years i wonder if next years first is in play for either Kelly or Hopper.....

 

[Soapy V]

We wont cut 10 ppl, for me it will be measured for the purpose of keeping the VFL competitive as well, our kids are developing great because of this. No point stripping it back to its bare bones.

Totally disagree. It's about building the next great side and the club has been consistent about this being a 3 year list turnaround. Still lots of very average players on our list and we lack elite talent. Bring in names like Hopper Balic and/or Kelly etc (I have no doubt SOS has another couple of players around 20-24 years old in mind) plus pick 2 or 3 and another 5-6 young guns and all of a sudden there is real quality pushing for spots. At the moment we lack real depth. Look how with just a couple of injuries our reserves have fallen away. With another good trade period/draft names like Kerridge ASOS Phillips Sheehan Wright Lamb Rowe may well be just depth/back up players. Wouldn't that be nice? At the moment our list is still a long way from where it needs to be

 

[Toddski]

Love this.

2017:

Keep 1st rounder and Draft Lachie O'Brien.

Trade Casboult for pick in 20s or 30s.

Get Kelly for 2018 1st rounder and Casboult pick.

2018: Take Ben Silvagni

My only issue is that if we don't trade Gibbs then I'm not sure how we procure Hopper and Balic...

Anyone have any idea how we could do this?