Analysis 2017 List Management Discussion Part II

[Metalcrusher]

How to improve the midfield is a massive question.

Kelly for Gibbs is an incremental improvement only, by virtue of an age gain. But we'd have to use just about all equity gained from trading Gibbs, if not more to seal the deal. I just don't see this as a big enough gain given we already don't have a second round pick. Maybe we trade Gibbs for 2 picks in the teens and give GWS the best of these two picks plus pick 2 for Kelly. So we lose Gibbs and gain Kelly and say pick 18. And our next pick is 35 in a shallow draft. That's hardly a quantum improvement.

We need 6 good mids inserted into this list in 2 off season. By my calculations.

Maybe we are better off trading Gibbs as previously suggested, giving GWS the better of the two picks - say 14 - for Hopper, then taking a good mid at 2 and hopefully snaring anothet good mid with say 18.

I should add right now I'm not sure we can let go of Levi, certainly not for a so so pick in a shallow draft. He would thrive in a top side.

You see clearly we need to add cover for Cripps so Hopper is that.

I just think, with no second rounder I'm not sure we can afford the luxury of burning two high picks for Kelly. As good as he is.

Because we need DEPTH. Especially with MM and BG nearing the end / possibly being traded out.

So how do we get the six mids we need???

Its unfortunate I can only like a post once.

 

[Jimmae]

2x500k (1mil) for Vickery = band 3.
Even with the increase in TPP, 4x500k (2mil) for Casboult should easily trigger band 3

Not easily, at all. Right on the knife's edge.

 

[Keyza]

Bolton: "We need to keep building our depth, particularly in the midfield. The depth is good in defence and our forwards are young and raw."
Never a truer word

Take note Adelaide. We are not going to hand one of our best contracted midfielders for peanuts, if at all.

 

[Funk]

The big positive is our spine is there the backs and the forwards. Atleast Big H is mobile has a classy finish reckon he loves the big stage. Our game plan is slow chipping it around going down the line too often but this will change next year and keep evolving. Sadly simmo might be past it but reckon he gets another year. Depending on who we get lamb and kerridge get 1 more year. The rest I am not so sure about.

We will now load on the midfield and they develop quicker. I know we have to be patient but shit i hate that henderson bloke.

Touhy i loved still do didn't look all that happy after the win was quite sober.

I love that Harry is getting goals from "broken play" in only his second game.

I feared that he might only be a "mark and kick" player like Patton/Levi - not worried any more.

If he can continue to kick goals from ground balls and marks he will be sensational.

 

[Funk]

Top six sides bar Richmond wouldn't touch casboult

We only need one club to desperately want him - Tigers fit that category!!!

 

[Keyza]

2x500k (1mil) for Vickery = band 3.
Even with the increase in TPP, 4x500k (2mil) for Casboult should easily trigger band 3

Compo is also based on the player's age. Vickery was 26 and Casboult is 28.

 

[therubbernub]

The big positive is our spine is there the backs and the forwards. Atleast Big H is mobile has a classy finish reckon he loves the big stage. Our game plan is slow chipping it around going down the line too often but this will change next year and keep evolving. Sadly simmo might be past it but reckon he gets another year. Depending on who we get lamb and kerridge get 1 more year. The rest I am not so sure about.

We will now load on the midfield and they develop quicker. I know we have to be patient but shit i hate that henderson bloke.

Touhy i loved still do didn't look all that happy after the win was quite sober.

I think you are being hard on Simmo. The whole balance of the team has been thrown out due to the loss of cripps and Ed. Everyone is underperforming including Docherty, Gibbs and Murphy. Simmo performs a role and does it very well, but our whole defence looks rushed and average at the moment. But put Cripps, Ed and Kreuzer plus a shiny new mid next year and Simmo goes back to performing like he did at the start of the year.

 

[therubbernub]

Worth remembering that Casboult thrives in our system because all our forwards get access to is contested marking opportunities.

How will he fare when he has to create his own space and be useful in the transition game with fast and precise ball movement?

I'd rather not but whatever, offer him 500x2 with tough incentives for a 3rd and let it play out.

I think Casboult is under performing atm due to the slowness of entry. I dont care how good a contested mark you are, if you get double/triple teamed, you are up against it to mark the ball. Give him better and more entries and he will create space. He is a booming kick as is Charlie. They can both lead further up the ground and leave Harry closer to the goals

 

[RAPPA]

If we want to object quality youth then we need to be prepared to part with players that have currency and can attract more than one draft pick.

Losing Levi through FA will attract one pick; Gibbs will, depending on the Crows' finals campaign, should attract a player + pick (or two picks). If Kreuzer re-signs (which I hope takes place) then realistically speaking, which players do we have left that are not untouchable but can attract a dual pick return? Murphy?

Otherwise, we can go to the draft period loaded with $$$, throw the kitchen sink at two players and risk retaining our current young crop in two years when they start to demand a higher salary.

 

[TheHeatleyStand]

We only need one club to desperately want him - Tigers fit that category!!!

Two would be excellent
We can't Jack up the price enough with Richmond
Another club entering would be great to sit back and cash out

 

[rog1995]

Not sure if this has been mentioned but Charlie Curnow is currently 9th in the comp for contested marks this year. (8th highest out of forwards)

Taken more contested plucks than the likes of Josh Kennedy, Tom Lynch, Hawkins, Jack Reiwoldt, Taylor Walker, Buddy, Daniher, Cameron

Unbelievable for a 20 y.o forward who only really broke out around round 6 this year and stands at 194cm.

If Charlie was a higher Draft pick he would be spoken about being the favorite for the rising star. McGrath and Burton play back pocket where it's a lot easier getting cheap uncontested possessions.Guy is an absolute gun.

 

[HARKER]

Two would be excellent
We can't Jack up the price enough with Richmond
Another club entering would be great to sit back and cash out

Collingwood? I also mentioned Melbourne here.
Don't be surprised should something pop-up.


Even without Casboult, we have many good pieces in place, but again, this year more than any, will be the one where the foundation is laid.
Next year is topping up but this year is the important one.

 

[Iamcarlton]

I think Casboult is under performing atm due to the slowness of entry. I dont care how good a contested mark you are, if you get double/triple teamed, you are up against it to mark the ball. Give him better and more entries and he will create space. He is a booming kick as is Charlie. They can both lead further up the ground and leave Harry closer to the goals

Add that as they play more games together their synergy-cohesiveness will get better . Levi Charlie and Harry with Pickett Murphy and Wright at ground level would create headaches for the opposition in future . Absolute bonus that Harry seems to be good at ground level only problem is i dont see a spot for young Sos .

 

[No1Suspect]

Collingwood? I also mentioned Melbourne here.
Don't be surprised should something pop-up.


Even without Casboult, we have many good pieces in place, but again, this year more than any, will be the one where the foundation is laid.
Next year is topping up but this year is the important one.

I still think 2017 and 18 are building drafts, 2019 will the top up draft maybe.... 66 game reset i think isnt long enough 4-5 years is more realistic

 

[HARKER]

I still think 2017 and 18 are building drafts, 2019 will the top up draft maybe.... 66 game reset i think isnt long enough 4-5 years is more realistic

Our first two draft years with the new regime, set us up to where we are now.
Dependent on what comes about through this years draft/trade periods, may go some way into determining what we do in subsequent years.

a. We brought in 11 players through the last two ND's, that as many as 9-10 may have a stake in being in our best 22 going forward.
b. We know we have a strong base for our future back-line.
c. We have a strong base for what may become a good forward line. (BenSilvagni & possibly Lynch to follow)

We're short of players that can get first hand onto the ball and everything else falls apart thereafter...........so, this year we have to right that wrong and if we can't, it may push back our rebuild another year.
If our plan realises Kelly & Hopper, along with holding onto our first this year for a mid, most parts may be in place, for the final (I know, there's no final) hit in 2018 via F/A's and trades.

 

[CRIPPS]

I still think 2017 and 18 are building drafts, 2019 will the top up draft maybe.... 66 game reset i think isnt long enough 4-5 years is more realistic

5 years is about right. Have to delist players like, Lamb, Kerridge, White, Graham, etc, they are not AFL standard. Without Cripps, our midfield is no good!
There's no easy fix with this rebuild and it will take at least 5 years before we are a good side.

 

[Cliffords Blues]

I was very much against talk of us maybe looking at Tippet.
However if we lose Cas, and we have a game as we did yesterday, Tippet would have been the ideal player.
Genuine forward, who can also ruck better than most teams actual ruckman.
If there was ever a coach that could bring him back to his best, its Bolts.
Also could allow SOS to low ball the Swans with a low pick for Zac Jones as long as we take Tippet?
This would help the Swans get Dusty.

We get a running defender that we would more than likely play midfield adding to our depth, and 'if' back to his best a damaging forward who can ruck.
Swans get Dusty.

 

[My name geoff]

If Charlie was a higher Draft pick he would be spoken about being the favorite for the rising star. McGrath and Burton play back pocket where it's a lot easier getting cheap uncontested possessions.Guy is an absolute gun.

Any player eligible for rising star who is top 10 in the comp for anything should win the award

 

[HARKER]

Glad we've brought in McKay when we did.
Every chance his games in the VFL wouldn't have even showed up as much as his AFL games.
Everyone has to start somewhere, but some just can't show up their wares at the lower level.

Will be disappointed should we not give Jaksch a chance before the end of the year, but how's that going to come about now?
Will be disappointed should Jaksch be delisted at years end and the coaches should be disappointed they couldn't make things work with him.

 

[Jimmae]

Can we get everyone with a degree from the Terry Wallace School of List Management to just register their interest in a 5-year plan in another thread?

 

[Cliffords Blues]

Glad we've brought in McKay when we did.
Every chance his games in the VFL wouldn't have even showed up as much as his AFL games.
Everyone has to start somewhere, but some just can't show up their wares at the lower level.

Will be disappointed should we not give Jaksch a chance before the end of the year, but how's that going to come about now?
Will be disappointed should Jaksch be delisted at years end and the coaches should be disappointed they couldn't make things work with him.

Yes
Should be given a chance to 'save' his career.
Not like we are finals contenders.
A chance to see who's who in the final games.

 

[BlueJet]

Yes
Should be given a chance to 'save' his career.
Not like we are finals contenders.
A chance to see who's who in the final games.

He is being given a chance, unfortunately he's opting not to or is unable to take that chance.
If he shows enough at the lower grade I'm sure that he'll get a final shot at nailing a spot in the 1s.

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[omdd]

If we don't get Kelly and we lose gibbs for a few first rounders which midfielders would we take with early first round and late first round. Also are there any free agents like Matty wright for the midfield we could look at getting to help us out whilst they develop or maybe we keep Graham Palmer on the list for this reason?

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[ferrisb]

I have it on good authority we're going to be recruiting a couple of tall defenders and a couple of small mids
Plus a deal for a gws 'almost', but must take another with a salary dump also

 

[Malifice]

Doesn't matter whether it's popular or not, but it's clear that we won't be moving on all that we may like to.
We won't be clearing 15 players. That would be suicide and much too difficult for the coaching group to handle.

8-10 is where it's at right now.

Agreed. Id be offering 1 year contracts to players like Bucks, Graham and Boeky who offer something in the way of depth.

I dont feel like we can savagely cut into the list again, especially if Casboult walks and Gibbs is traded.

We're going to need probably 1 more year from a few senior players who are capable of providing depth.