Analysis 2017 List Management Discussion Part II

[rog1995]

17 disposals and 5 tackles per game in a high pick being played mostly out of position.

Yes, he is worth more than pick 18 alone.

That's GWS problem. The fact he hasn't come on as expected maybe because of injury or being played out of position means he will get a similar deal to Steele if traded.

 

[rog1995]

We are under the impression that brycey will request a trade home. We will accept a first rounder + 2nd or a player in return.

Could leave us winning on the trade table.

In - Kelly, Hopper/ Whitfield, Adl 1st (18) Adl 2nd or decent player

Out - Gibbs, 2017 and 2018 first, Levi compo.

Draft best mid with Pick 18

You want us to trade our 1st pick this year next year and Bryce Gibbs all for Kelly and Whitfield? No chance in hell.

 

[Juddernaut08]

Yeah fair enough lets keep 2018 firar rounder but if both Kelly and Hopper did nominate us it might be hard to get both. I still dont mind the idea of the pre season draft it would force GWS to accept things on our terms or they get nothing.

If we got Kelly and Hopper - doubt we'd be bottom 5 material

A midfield of Cripps, Kelly, Hopper, SPS, Murphy, Curnow? Can't see that being cellar-dweller

 

[LordLucifer]

If we finish bottom 3 for the next 3 years im out [emoji35]

On SM-G930F using BigFooty.com mobile app

Okay, bye-bye !!

 

[Unknown Origin]

We are under the impression that brycey will request a trade home. We will accept a first rounder + 2nd or a player in return.

Could leave us winning on the trade table.

In - Kelly, Hopper/ Whitfield, Adl 1st (18) Adl 2nd or decent player

Out - Gibbs, 2017 and 2018 first, Levi compo.

Draft best mid with Pick 18

I don't like the idea of trading our 2017 1st & 2018 1st.

 

[Unknown Origin]

Let's put Cripps on the tables as well then ??

I keep reading about how it is a bad look to ship players off willy-nilly as it erodes camaraderie and team spirit yet you think it would be a great move to get rid of the captain.

I have no issue with trading out players but long-termers like the captain is not the answer.

Ridiculous comment comparing cripps to murphy. Just dumb

 

[Weiterbot23]

Yep you dont do those sorts of things at the deadline of trade period without a little kickback somewhere along the line . For sure it got us some young talent in Williamson etc . But without our help Hawthorn dont have Omeara . May not be Sicily but one could certainly think SOS is up to something there i agree .

I just hope the kick back isn't Omera

 

[Zlatan]

Would be pretty funny if half way through the season, pick #2 (whoever it may be) is dominating the midfield and we didn't have to give up the farm for Kelly.

Some are being a little too hasty, almost throwing it away. Almost begging GWS to take it....

 

[Blue Baggers]

To get the best possible trade for Gibbs from Crows maybe Cameron to Lions for 2nd round pick 17ish and that gets on forwarded to us with their first rounder?
Gibbs ->Crows
Cameron -> Lions
Blues receive Crows first and Lions 2nd

Thoughts?

 

[dazdoggy]

Anyone see the photo of Cripps on adammcgrath89 twitter saying it's the eagles hid meeting with. Surely it's fake.

 

[KohPhi]

Let's put Cripps on the tables as well then ??

I keep reading about how it is a bad look to ship players off willy-nilly as it erodes camaraderie and team spirit yet you think it would be a great move to get rid of the captain.

I have no issue with trading out players but long-termers like the captain is not the answer.

Yep...
Couldn't stomach the skipper being traded unless he came out and initiated the move. Can't see that happening to be honest.

 

[Gethelred]

From the two scenarios you just put out I think it's pretty clear we should do the trade to bolster our midfield.

The whole notion of rising too quickly is bullocks as a winning culture and good environment makes a good team and develops players, not how high your draft picks are. Look at Sydney constantly able to turn late picks into good players like papley, rampe, Smith, Grundy, Parker etc

Another few years at the bottom could hurt the new generation though and put pressure on Bolton and the club.

Moreso than ever before is it better to just be a good club and keep topping up...Sydney, Geelong and hawthorn keep staying up the top because they have a winning culture. Hawthorn down a bit but already bouncing back.

Spare me.

Sydney stayed up the top of the ladder due to having the capacity to pay their A-, B+ players enough money to remain at the club when they would normally have bottomed out. These player would normally have left, chasing more money and/or success elsewhere; because of the increased salary cap they were allowed to use - and the improvements they made to their academy over the last ten years - they've seen sustained success, not due to anything beyond good development processes.

As for Hawthorn and Geelong, those two clubs benefited from initial astute drafting - although getting in Ablett, Scarlett, Hawkins and Bartell father/son helps more than a little - but since that time the inception of free agency and the twin talent drains kept them aflush with mature talent, whilst depriving up and comers of the kids that could have made the difference between rising as we, West Coast and Essendon did in and around 2011, and needing to bottom out due to the age of our lists and the stopgap measures on them.

Don't try to rush things, don't even go there. Don't try to sell me a winning culture, which exists independent of ladder position; each successful club loves to tell the tale about how they're completely self-made.

There is good culture, which sets you up for sustained success, and there is bad culture; both can be successful, for the simple reasons of better/broader talent, greater teamwork/tactics, or pure luck.

Were we to rush things, were we to opt out of the next two first round picks, I'd do my nut. I'd be furious, for in wishing to kickstart the rise up the ladder we'd be risking being thin when we got there.

It just isn't worth it. Let's do it properly, for once.

 

[Jeremias]

Anyone see the photo of Cripps on adammcgrath89 twitter saying it's the eagles hid meeting with. Surely it's fake.

1) Cripps is from WA
2) Cripps is out for the year with injury so it's very possible he's over there taking some time off
3) Where is Carlton playing this weekend?

The pic won't be fake, but it'd be a case of Twitter folk adding 1 + 1 to get 3.

 

[Jabba73]

I find the post to like ratio a reasonable measure on a posters likely hood on providing accurate rumours.

So when someone providing rumours has over 1000 posts and only 172 likes certainly doesn't seem very good/ reliable.

Not always. Can't remember those bringing up the Gibbs trade last year being overwhelmed with likes.

Rumour turned out to be true, didn't make it popular.

 

[Jimmae]

The only thing that holds me back a little is the temptation to tell rayner to work on his endurance until the camp. If he runs a 14 beep, he's the clear number one. Would instantly improve our fwd line and if he UPS his endurance, shows he can become a mid at the next level

Different testing format this year, no beep test, but rest assured if he can't muster AFL fitness levels it will show up in the replacement.

Kelly and Hopper and (????) = Pick #1, 2018 1st and Levi Compo

Questions is.. what sweetens the deal for us? GWS 2nd round? M. Kennedy? Perryman?

I'd be shocked if they chucked Perryman into the mix.

What many of us seems to be forgetting is the small matter of GWS letting 2 (or 3) highly rated, young midfielders go at once. After already losing Adams and Treloar in recent years, they won't let this slide - although if SOS has a massive brain fart and gives us what would be 3 x first rounders (no way in hell) then GWS may bite. Just cannot see them letting go of more than 1 of Kelly, Hopper or Whitfield.

If anything, this is a little overdue. Them giving up one decent mid every year is a trickle of talent compared to how many they're trying to draft.

That last part about Whitfield is way off.

Actually the first part is as well. We definitely win the trade if we got all 3 at that price...not that gws would let all 3 go at once.

Whitfield is incredibly outside, lacks the pace and agility of some of his contemporaries and isn't trusted to win the hard ball. All he's got going for him is that he can run all day and makes good decisions with the footy. This is the Aish/Hoskin-Elliot song and dance all over again, just that he's a bit better.

Good player? Sure. Elite? Only at one thing. If he's on a high salary as well, we're doing GWS a favour.

Why would we take a risk on him as someone to replace Gibbs or take up a balanced midfield role, only to pay a top 10 pick on top of that? He's a project player in that regard, and always has been.

It's a good deal. Very similar to Judd deal with hopper (worse out of him and whitfield) being an upgrade on Armfield.

Judd and Armfield (pick 46) for pick 3 (Masten), Kennedy (pick 3) and pick 20 (Notte)

Kelly and Hopper for pick 1(2), 2018 first rounder (pick 3) and Casboult compensation (grade 3 pick 21ish)

As much as I enjoyed watching Judd, the deal was shit. That it's in the ballpark of that tells you that it's dumb and this info isn't quite right (if at all).

Yet he averages less than 5 SEN player rating points per game. Similar to Cuningham and yes, he averages 5 less disposals but Cuningham averages more marks, tackles, and matches him in average goals in a bottom 2 team.

I like Hopper and think he has a lot of potential but I don't think he's done enough to maintain his original value of pick 7, especially being uncontracted.

I can appreciate the broader argument you're putting forward, and agree with you, but those SEN ratings are quite arbitrary and not really a solid statistical basis to present your point. Even Champion Data's formulas are garbage because of what stats they collect, and how they weight them.

We are under the impression that brycey will request a trade home. We will accept a first rounder + 2nd or a player in return.

Could leave us winning on the trade table.

In - Kelly, Hopper/ Whitfield, Adl 1st (18) Adl 2nd or decent player

Out - Gibbs, 2017 and 2018 first, Levi compo.

Draft best mid with Pick 18

Well, now I know your info is off; thanks for taking the time to provide it though.

2018 first not on the table...

Hearing Kelly likely to stay at GWS for another 12 months... Hope I'm wrong!

Sanity prevails.

 

[BigFrizz36]

Cripps will be around for another 10 years and is primed to be a long-term leader.
Murphy is 30, a reluctant and insignificant leader and won't be around for our next tilt at a premiership.

Lets have a look at our "reluctant and insignificant leader" shall we. In a tough season where we have won 5 out of 19 games Marc Murphy has been voted in the best 5 players on the ground by the coaches (clearly people who don't know as much as us keyboard warriors) in 14 games (yes 14) including four of the last 5. Bloke has played his heart out more and more in a role that doesn't suit him (inside mid) due to injuries. I personally think that he deserves better than this rubbish.

 

[LanceRomance]

Would be pretty funny if half way through the season, pick #2 (whoever it may be) is dominating the midfield and we didn't have to give up the farm for Kelly.

Some are being a little too hasty, almost throwing it away. Almost begging GWS to take it....

When was the last time pick 2 dominated midseason first year?

 

[HavUEvaSeenTheRain]

1) Cripps is from WA
2) Cripps is out for the year with injury so it's very possible he's over there taking some time off
3) Where is Carlton playing this weekend?

The pic won't be fake, but it'd be a case of Twitter folk adding 1 + 1 to get 3.

That's it and when you have someone of Cripp's ability though West Coast and Freo are always going to chase him.

 

[HavUEvaSeenTheRain]

Not always. Can't remember those bringing up the Gibbs trade last year being overwhelmed with likes.

Rumour turned out to be true, didn't make it popular.

If you mainly post on a club board and don't have many likes you are pessimistic/realistic and if you mainly post on the main board without many likes then you're not funny

 

[HavUEvaSeenTheRain]

Lets have a look at our "reluctant and insignificant leader" shall we. In a tough season where we have won 5 out of 19 games Marc Murphy has been voted in the best 5 players on the ground by the coaches (clearly people who don't know as much as us keyboard warriors) in 14 games (yes 14) including four of the last 5. Bloke has played his heart out more and more in a role that doesn't suit him (inside mid) due to injuries. I personally think that he deserves better than this rubbish.

that's actually brilliant by him. I would love to know how that compares to the "elite" midfielders in the game

 

[dazdoggy]

1) Cripps is from WA
2) Cripps is out for the year with injury so it's very possible he's over there taking some time off
3) Where is Carlton playing this weekend?

The pic won't be fake, but it'd be a case of Twitter folk adding 1 + 1 to get 3.

I understand but stating his meeting with west coast eagles, surely that's fake.

 

[Funk]

Does anyone ever think that SOS actually thought swapping a 2nd round pick for a bunch of 3rds was the best option?

THERE IS NO PAYBACK.

2017 GWS 2nd round pick approx 35 for 2016 picks 48,66,70 (ironically all from the Mitchell/Lewis trades which ended up being 47,61,65 - MacReadie, Williamson and Kerr)

 

[SafeAsMilk]

Anyone see the photo of Cripps on adammcgrath89 twitter saying it's the eagles hid meeting with. Surely it's fake.

Would a contracted player be meeting in public with an opposition team before the season is over?

 

[flankerfromsrilanka]

I understand but stating his meeting with west coast eagles, surely that's fake.

it doesn't state he his meeting with anyone from eagles...just says he is in perth and west coast should swoop
the bloke who took the photo needs a life

 

[The Old Dark Navy's]

I'm being perverse here but I would love to see Jaksch get a game in round 23 and kick at least 3 goals Matthew Watson style creating doubt as to whether to cut him or not.