Analysis 2017 List Management Discussion Part II

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BrisbaneCFC

Norm Smith Medallist
Sep 1, 2016
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Continued from https://www.bigfooty.com/forum/threads/2017-list-management-discussion.1152736/page-400

You're kidding yourself if you don't honestly think Murphy and Gibbs have been instrumental in all our wins. I don't understand why so many people here view players as empty commodities. They are people who contribute to the culture of the club...something you can't just buy and sell out

I never said they weren't. I said its over the top nonsense that we would be 0 - 11 without them. Especially without knowing what we would have had in their place for trading them.
 
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Foucault1989

Norm Smith Medallist
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I never said they weren't. I said its over the top nonsense that we would be 0 - 11 without them. Especially without knowing what we would have had in their place for trading them.
Disagree. Without Gibbs and Murphy we would be almost uncompetitive. Even with two talented youngsters in their place we would get mauled with a lack of experienced midfield depth. Cripps would be destroyed poor guy. Stop with you 'trade em' nonsense without factoring in the importance of culture, competitiveness and winning
 

BrisbaneCFC

Norm Smith Medallist
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Disagree. Without Gibbs and Murphy we would be almost uncompetitive. Even with two talented youngsters in their place we would get mauled with a lack of experienced midfield depth. Cripps would be destroyed poor guy. Stop with you 'trade em' nonsense without factoring in the importance of culture, competitiveness and winning

I will write what I goddam please thanks very much, this is an open football forum with many differing opinions and I'm allowed to express mine just as you are. FWIW, as far as Gibbs goes, most people know I'm on record as saying that IMO, Gibbs should have been traded two years ago. As far as Murphy goes, not once have I actually and actively said we should trade him, all I have done is discuss the benefits with other like minded supporters of what such a trade could provide to the football club.

Furthermore, you appear to have totally ignored the last sentence in my response to you. Again, we don't know what or who Murphy and Gibbs would have been replaced by. May have been like for like experienced players, may have been draftees or even one of each. The only nonsense that is being written is people suggesting we would have zero wins without them, without knowing how they each would have been replaced. Which is what I originally said.
 

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TheHeatleyStand

Norm Smith Medallist
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You're kidding yourself if you don't honestly think Murphy and Gibbs have been instrumental in all our wins. I don't understand why so many people here view players as empty commodities. They are people who contribute to the culture of the club...something you can't just buy and sell out
We are third last.... You'd want to be better than tired last mate
 

TheHeatleyStand

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While the trade Murphy argument if it helps us get Kelly, Hopper etc logic is sound on paper, there are obviously the intangibles at risk such as culture.
If i was SOS i would not even mention to Murph that we'd be open to trading him...could result in a Hawthorn and Lewis type situation.

Let's be honest, Lewis, who was a champion and loyal servant, was pissed off and disgruntled by being offered up for trade and that's a big reason why he left for Melbourne, even after Hawthorn changed their mind and wanted to keep him after Mitchell left.

We've seen it negatively affect Hawthorn's famous culture.

In-house, Murphy seems to be regarded very highly by just about everyone and i can't see us throwing him aside ruthlessly when we are trying to preach 'unity' and the idea that you get rewarded if you abide by the clubs standards. This is the big one for me...you can't preach all this 'unity' stuff and then toss aside the club captain who is the current leader of the playing group and embodies our club values. It's just a huge no-no in ANY organisation. It sends the message to everyone at the club that no one is 'safe' and that even if you do everything we ask of you and more, we can still dispose of you at any time. Organisations that 'do right' by their loyal servants are the ones that succeed. I am very confident Bolton will not even entertain trading Murphy unless Murphy approaches him, which i doubt he will.

This is not the same as Bulldogs and Griffen. Griffen was the one who demanded out and was a reluctant captain to begin with...he clearly did not have a great relationship with the other players anyway. Murphy does appear to have the respect of all the boys.
Maybe this is the croad situation with hawthorn and freo that was the platform to their rise
Croad was all Australian at the time
 

TheHeatleyStand

Norm Smith Medallist
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I think we would have been. Our wins have been by 15, 23, 19 and 1 point. Our senior guns have been vital in those wins, and I was talking about this season. While I would prefer to keep Gibbs, I am much, much more comfortable with him leaving at the end of this year rather than last year. It would still hurt in the short term for a hopeful long term gain.
But losing both he and Murphy? That would be Full Melbourne Madness.
Rubbish! Hopper would be a third year player and Kelly a fifth year
Not talking about picks to draft but afl ready seasoned footballers about to hit their straps
 

Foucault1989

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I will write what I goddam please thanks very much, this is an open football forum with many differing opinions and I'm allowed to express mine just as you are. FWIW, as far as Gibbs goes, most people know I'm on record as saying that IMO, Gibbs should have been traded two years ago. As far as Murphy goes, not once have I actually and actively said we should trade him, all I have done is discuss the benefits with other like minded supporters of what such a trade could provide to the football club.

Furthermore, you appear to have totally ignored the last sentence in my response to you. Again, we don't know what or who Murphy and Gibbs would have been replaced by. May have been like for like experienced players, may have been draftees or even one of each. The only nonsense that is being written is people suggesting we would have zero wins without them, without knowing how they each would have been replaced. Which is what I originally said.
And I'm entitled to mine and I think trading out the senior core of our club will set us back beyond reproach. Trading out the heart and soul of a group, like Murphy, is the very definition of 'going melbourne'. In an ideal world we would also retain Gibbs and build a balanced list of youth and experienced players. Building a list is about balance and development. Murphy and Gibbs drive the standards at training and in game. We can't lose both...it would be disastrous

My comment re: this year is based on the fact that we have a young, inexperienced side and have relied on Gibbs, Murphy, Kreuzer, Curnow, Thomas, Rowe and Docherty and Cripps as key leaders. Take out Murphy and Gibbs and we look thin in leadership. Sure you can chuck in hopper and Kelly (unlikely both) but IMO you still need either Murphy or Gibbs as the experience guiding the young midfield group
 
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You made my point in saying to trade Gibbs and try and get a 2nd round from adelaide. We can't just skip the draft.

If we get 2-3 good players in via trades or via the draft, whats the difference? Our goal is to build a good, strong, young list, capable of challenging for finals and flags. What difference does it make if they all come from the draft or all come from trades?
 

OldCarltonKnows

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I will write what I goddam please thanks very much, this is an open football forum with many differing opinions and I'm allowed to express mine just as you are. FWIW, as far as Gibbs goes, most people know I'm on record as saying that IMO, Gibbs should have been traded two years ago. As far as Murphy goes, not once have I actually and actively said we should trade him, all I have done is discuss the benefits with other like minded supporters of what such a trade could provide to the football club.

Furthermore, you appear to have totally ignored the last sentence in my response to you. Again, we don't know what or who Murphy and Gibbs would have been replaced by. May have been like for like experienced players, may have been draftees or even one of each. The only nonsense that is being written is people suggesting we would have zero wins without them, without knowing how they each would have been replaced. Which is what I originally said.
After Gibbs's performance tonight I'm glad you're not our list manager.
 

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officialjc

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Sep 24, 2016
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gibbs is a fantastic player but dangerfield is better and all we got for him was pick 9, 28 and dean gore. i think two first rounders is unreasonable and sos probably senses he could be another one to bend over the crows. a first rounder and a handy depth/fringe/bottom 6 player from us really should do.
 
Jun 4, 2016
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gibbs is a fantastic player but dangerfield is better and all we got for him was pick 9, 28 and dean gore. i think two first rounders is unreasonable and sos probably senses he could be another one to bend over the crows. a first rounder and a handy depth/fringe/bottom 6 player from us really should do.
Danger out of contract. Not comparable
 

Stamos

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gibbs is a fantastic player but dangerfield is better and all we got for him was pick 9, 28 and dean gore. i think two first rounders is unreasonable and sos probably senses he could be another one to bend over the crows. a first rounder and a handy depth/fringe/bottom 6 player from us really should do.

Dangerfield was out of contract.
Last year the price for Gibbs was 2 firsts, I doubt it would have dramatically reduced.
 

Mr_Plow

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gibbs is a fantastic player but dangerfield is better and all we got for him was pick 9, 28 and dean gore. i think two first rounders is unreasonable and sos probably senses he could be another one to bend over the crows. a first rounder and a handy depth/fringe/bottom 6 player from us really should do.

Fair enough as an Adelaide supporter you'd use Dangerfield as a reference, it's familiar to you.

Nonetheless, the main difference, one was an RFA and the other is contracted on a bargain deal in the realm of 500-550k.
 
May 1, 2002
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gibbs is a fantastic player but dangerfield is better and all we got for him was pick 9, 28 and dean gore. i think two first rounders is unreasonable and sos probably senses he could be another one to bend over the crows. a first rounder and a handy depth/fringe/bottom 6 player from us really should do.

Ummm...no.
 
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