Analysis 2017 List Management Discussion

[Keyza]

Serious question, why? They've taken the risk that he'll be a bloated has been playing on the reserves and cashing his checks. But if Buddy retires and forgoes his money, why should they be punished?

If a 28 yo gets a four year deal but retires at year 3 for personal reasons, do we make the club count year 4 under the cap.

If you want to complain about COLA I'll join you. But suggesting that they should be punished for the length of Buddy makes the decision to retire and forgo his money makes no sense

They could have deliberately given him a 9 year deal with an understanding he would only play for say 7 of those. Restricted free agency rules are there to stop this sort of thing happening.

 

[SkyhorseTamer]

Geelong can't afford half of his salary and have nothing to trade to tempt GC to pay half if not more.

Then the deal doesn't get done... Simple. Besides the salary cap is going to bump up so I think they'll have room.

 

[DangerousD]

Did Ablett go as a free agent?

Nah mate, Ablett is contracted to GC next season on $1 million, by all reports he wants to return to Geelong for personal reasons or for a final year before he retires.

The Cats don't have the cap space to pay even half of his wage and they have nothing to trade to tempt GC in to paying most of it.

My point was, if Ablett quits, or wants to terminate his contract so he can return to Geelong do you think the AFL will make the Suns include that money in TPP or do you think they will let them use it to keep players like May and Swallow and maybe go after a replacement?

 

[DangerousD]

Then the deal doesn't get done... Simple. Besides the salary cap is going to bump up so I think they'll have room.

Do you think if Ablett retires the AFL will make the Suns include his $1 million salary in their tpp or will they be allowed to use it to go after a replacement?

 

[Keyza]

Nah mate, Ablett is contracted to GC next season on $1 million, by all reports he wants to return to Geelong for personal reasons or for a final year before he retires.

The Cats don't have the cap space to pay even half of his wage and they have nothing to trade to tempt GC in to paying most of it.

My point was, if Ablett quits, or wants to terminate his contract so he can return to Geelong do you think the AFL will make the Suns include that money in TPP or do you think they will let them use it to keep players like May and Swallow and maybe go after a replacement?

That was my point. If he didnt go to the Suns as a restricted free agent then the Suns do not have to include his money in the salary cap. No club has to include money in the salary cap if a player leaves early or is traded UNLESS they came as free agents.
P.S. I am a girl.

 

[SkyhorseTamer]

Do you think if Ablett retires the AFL will make the Suns include his $1 million salary in their tpp or will they be allowed to use it to go after a replacement?

Suns might not survive long enough for us to find out...

Edit: read Keyza's post above.

 

[Keyza]

Do you think if Ablett retires the AFL will make the Suns include his $1 million salary in their tpp or will they be allowed to use it to go after a replacement?

No. Just as the AFL didnt make Carlton include Jamo's contract in this years salary cap when he retired early. It only applies if the player moved clubs as a restricted free agent.

 

[rog1995]

As I understand it, isn't he contracted to 2019?

If he is, then unless they offer what we're willing to accept for him - and by what occurred concerning his potential trade from last year, we're certainly not going to get worse than what we think he's worth - he's not going anywhere. I don't think there's an issue with that, really; either we trade him and get in two kids of quality, only one of which will truly be AFL ready (draft selections that go round one are intended to play in their draft years, where second round selections are either more limited or are expected to take a bit of development first) or we keep exactly what Gibbs is; a highly durable B+ to A player. What's the bad there?

I'd be fine with keeping him, but if we were to trade him this year would be the time for us to do it without unduly affecting our results whilst still getting quality for him.

The point is if he was uncontracted we would of received most likely a 1st round pick possibly pick 2. No good asking for the coin and getting a long term deal and then ask the club to trade and accept unders.

 

[bluekidjoe]

How about this...Gibbs to Adelaide....McGovern and adelaide second round pick to west coast...Adelaide second round and west coast first round pick to us.

We would land a late first and second, which could be used to get say Hopper. McGovern and Gibbs go home. Thoughts?

This sounds far too logical to be on this forum.

 

[DangerousD]

That was my point. If he didnt go to the Suns as a restricted free agent then the Suns do not have to include his money in the salary cap. No club has to include money in the salary cap if a player leaves early or is traded UNLESS they came as free agents.
P.S. I am a girl.

Are you 100% certain on that?
Seems strange to say you have to include the money if a player quits if he was a FA
But not if he was contracted normally.

What's the equivalent term for mate when addressing a woman?

 

[ShanDog]

How about this...Gibbs to Adelaide....McGovern and adelaide second round pick to west coast...Adelaide second round and west coast first round pick to us.

We would land a late first and second, which could be used to get say Hopper. McGovern and Gibbs go home. Thoughts?

So Adelaide lose McGovern and their second round pick for Gibbs? Don't think they would be too keen.

 

[BrisbaneCFC]

So Adelaide lose McGovern and their second round pick for Gibbs? Don't think they would be too keen.

I still don't think we can expect a first and second rounder for Gibbs. No way are Adelaide paying that for him. Though, TBH, I would absolutely take the right player and their second rounder for Gibbs. Say Rory Atkins preferably, Hartigan, Kelly or dare I suggest it Lever or McGovern.

 

[Dramoth]

Interesting... all the young midfielders that some of us are talking about are all in the Team Weitering side in the pre-match game against the scum*.

Fogarty x 2, O'Brien, and Worpel... anyone going to be watching it?

 

[Foucault1989]

So Adelaide lose McGovern and their second round pick for Gibbs? Don't think they would be too keen.

But at least they keep their first round pick. So they lose a second round pick and a player who plays like a first round selection for a proven gun whilst also drafting a young gun. I think given people here want a first and second or two firsts for Gibbs this is a great option for adelaide

 

[ShanDog]

But at least they keep their first round pick. So they lose a second round pick and a player who plays like a first round selection for a proven gun whilst also drafting a young gun. I think given people here want a first and second or two firsts for Gibbs this is a great option for adelaide

If Foucault were an AFL fan, I think he'd theorise about you assessing the trade with a "Carlton gaze"

 

[Foucault1989]

If Foucault were an AFL fan, I think he'd theorise about you assessing the trade with a "Carlton gaze"

Haha let's hope Gibbs doesn't get injured between now and the end of the season to avoid those pesky medical professionals exercising biopower over him

 

[Gethelred]

The point is if he was uncontracted we would of received most likely a 1st round pick possibly pick 2. No good asking for the coin and getting a long term deal and then ask the club to trade and accept unders.

Could you explain this please?

I'm under the assumption that, publicly at least, we have little idea of what was actually offered to us from Adelaide, beyond Jaryd Lyons. Everything from there at least is conjecture, is it not?

 

[The Facepainter]

Interesting... all the young midfielders that some of us are talking about are all in the Team Weitering side in the pre-match game against the scum*.

Fogarty x 2, O'Brien, and Worpel... anyone going to be watching it?

I am going in at 12.30 just to watch it.
If anything to report will on Sunday night unless I am depressed by our game.

 

[RudyBlue]

Hey I don't like living in Kalgoorlie atm either ... I sure as shit didn't move my family here for the ******* vista or temperate weather conditions. But a contract is a contract.

Someone's gotta crush the metal I guess

 

[F_therest]

Serious question, why? They've taken the risk that he'll be a bloated has been playing on the reserves and cashing his checks. But if Buddy retires and forgoes his money, why should they be punished?

If a 28 yo gets a four year deal but retires at year 3 for personal reasons, do we make the club count year 4 under the cap.

If you want to complain about COLA I'll join you. But suggesting that they should be punished for the length of Buddy makes the decision to retire and forgo his money makes no sense

I get what you're saying...really for the AFL it's a case by case scenario.

If the player has to retire for a legitimate reason like mental health and decides that on their own, i'm with you.
And if that happens to Buddy the AFL will probably allow it.

However, at the time they wanted to ensure Swans knew what they were getting themselves into and not trying to exploit a loophole...eg simply offering Franklin 9 years so that Hawthorn wouldn't match, when say, the club and Buddy had already had an 'agreement' he would really only play 6 then retire.
You can see how clubs could use it the other way to abuse it so they don't have to pay for the player.

 

[F_therest]

Id move both on in a perfect world. Get Gibbs to Adelaide for a first rounder and try to sell Murphy on a Premiership moving to GWS for a couple of years while we bag Hopper in return.

Yeah no.

Our midfield would get absolutely crushed for years to come.

The youngsters development will be stalled if we're getting smashed every week and the ball isn't even getting into the forward 50.

 

[mikeythemoocow]

Are you 100% certain on that?
Seems strange to say you have to include the money if a player quits if he was a FA
But not if he was contracted normally.

What's the equivalent term for mate when addressing a woman?

It's like this so clubs cannot offer massive contracts to restricted FA, making it impossible for clubs to match, only to then renegotiate more suitable terms a year or two later.

 

[Funk]

I read that today. Apparently they have asked players to take pay cuts.

Interesting- where did you read it?

 

[Funk]

It's like this so clubs cannot offer massive contracts to restricted FA, making it impossible for clubs to match, only to then renegotiate more suitable terms a year or two later.

Pies did something similar with Luke Ball.

Offered huge money for 2 years - no other club would match it.

Then extended (via contract renegotiation) it for sweet FA for the third year.

Smart exploitation of the rules.

 

[Funk]

I get what you're saying...really for the AFL it's a case by case scenario.

If the player has to retire for a legitimate reason like mental health and decides that on their own, i'm with you.
And if that happens to Buddy the AFL will probably allow it.

However, at the time they wanted to ensure Swans knew what they were getting themselves into and not trying to exploit a loophole...eg simply offering Franklin 9 years so that Hawthorn wouldn't match, when say, the club and Buddy had already had an 'agreement' he would really only play 6 then retire.
You can see how clubs could use it the other way to abuse it so they don't have to pay for the player.

"Loophole" is the key word here.

If the AFL leaves one - clubs will drive a semi trailer through it!!

These rules on salary caps are to prevent exploitation of FA rules.