Analysis 2017 List Management Discussion

[F_therest]

I don't agree that our future first rounder is a "logical starting point" because IMO, trading future picks is fraught with danger.

Of course it is but you got to give up quality to get quality.

At this point, you would assume we'd rise up the ladder at least a little bit in 2018 with natural improvement and if we got the likes of Hopper/Kennedy.

Yes there is risk involved, but to get 2 quality young midfielders with a few years of development and proven form in them, it's a risk i'd be willing to take.

 

[DangerousD]

Hawks have fallen in a hole with SM and JL gone, can't be a coincidence surely. At the end of the day BG and MK are in our top 5 players right now.

I think it's quite a bit different to the Hawks. The Hawks topped up continually through FA and using their 1st round picks leaving a big gap in their list. They also traded Lewis and Mitchel for peanuts. We have drafted young top end talent and anything we get for Gibbs or Kruz will get us good compensation.

If we are to keep Gibbs and Kruz then it makes us trading our future 1st even more important and on top of that we would want to be confident on securing a FA next season
I can see Gibbs playing for 3-5 more years but i can't say the same for Kruz.

 

[Red Bull]

Both players out of contract and nominating us. We're offering a top 3 pick next year.

We could sweeten it by sending the Kruezer FA pick to them as well in exchange for their second rounder.

In our position we can also afford to take another salary dump player from the Giants to get the deal done .

 

[DangerousD]

Can you please explain the logic for letting Kruez go for a second rounder and then recruiting (trading for) Longer? I'd think it would be either net equal or even net loss (given we would be letting a club stalwart go). Surely Longer would not be let come to us for less than a second rounder.
And do you propose that we get Fyfe as a FA? Because if so then we get nothing for Kruez (ala Eddie/Daisy)
If the big American is a bust and we're not using harry mac as a ruck then we are left with Phillips (Gorringe isn't a ruck).
Just asking because it seems some people are advocating for change for what seems changes sake. We need to get something we need and don't have out of a trade scenario don't we?

It would be stupid to allow Kruz to leave then get a FA of course. The logic of letting Kruz go is that we should get a pick around 20-24, Richmond showed last year you can pick up ready made rucks for 3rd and 4th round picks. There are rucks at other clubs not getting a go that could be tempted to leave with a good offer.

 

[thylacine60]

So get rid of Kreuzer and bring in a fringe ruck?

 

[DangerousD]

So no free agents this year in that scenario? That makes some sense. So we benefit from losing Kruez as FA (I hope we are still considering keeping him - hope his papers aren't stamped)

I hope not too. TBH unless we can get a compo pick under 25 then I'm not keen. I wouldn't want to lose Gibbs and Kruz in the one trade period

 

[ParapMarkets]

If Gibbs asks for a trade then surely we would use that pick in a trade for Hopper (if we can get him) rather than trade out a future first round pick. That pick could be a top 5 selection again (losing Gibbs would incur short term pain as well).

I think people are paying way too much significance on Ben Silvagni. Who knows how he will develop? I can't see SOS trading out a top pick in the hope that his son will be a top selection, that would put enormous pressure on both himself and his son for his son to come on in a big way. SOS seems to do everything he can to keep his kids out of the limelight.

 

[DangerousD]

I don't particularly want to trade Kreuze as he's the heart and soul type we still need, certainly see merit in it though.

Question then becomes who do we get to replace him? No use making a sideways move, any ideas for some gold out there with a later pick? A Nankervis type? (Pick 46)

What about Riley O'brien from the Crows in the Gibbs deal.

 

[Kramer1]

So get rid of Kreuzer and bring in a fringe ruck?

Yeah, what's not to like???

Outside of ripping the heart out of the club?

Let's see how the relatively short, non athletic Nankervis goes with a few more weeks of 105kg fridges jumping into him.

 

[ParapMarkets]

Our ruck stocks are already bad and we don't have any promising young ruck coming through. I don't think we can afford to lose Kreuzer for some second round pick, doesn't sound like a smart move to me.

 

[HARKER]

Spitball scenario taking into account several facts:

1. We have a lot of money that will have to be used by this year. (This is clearly true)
2. The 66 game rebuild finishes at the end of next year. (Suggesting we're expecting to be very competitive post 2018)
3. We've largely taken care of our KPP players and now mids are required......recruits and draftees. (Unless a 'special' FF shows up)

a. 2018 1st.+ for Hopper & D. Smith.
b. We keep our top 5 pick this year and take the best player available (likely a mid)
c. We gain Ben Silvagni for a much lower pick (second round ++)
d. We spend large on a FA, this year or next year. (Can't help feeling that we haven't just stowed away the money for a wait and see scenario. Not SOS)

2019 may well show us to have all the pieces in place.
Weitering, Marchbank, Silvagni, CCurnow, McKay, SPS, Macreadie, Fisher, Pickett all with bigger bodies and experience behind them.
(Bonus will come about should Williamson, Cuningham, Polson, LeBois make their way into our best team.)
Accompany that with young mainstays in Cripps, Docherty, Plowman, Byrne, Phillips, Sheehan and add in the influx of recruits, a FA and Ben Silvagni (I know that's a wild projection, but just for the fun of it).........and we may have a platform to launch from.

 

[BLUEALLTHRU]

Kruezer is just starting to show what we all new he could do, I hope to hell he is kept on the books.

 

[Aphrodite]

So get rid of Kreuzer and bring in a fringe ruck?

BigFooty trades T

 

[Red Bull]

If Gibbs asks for a trade then surely we would use that pick in a trade for Hopper (if we can get him) rather than trade out a future first round pick. That pick could be a top 5 selection again (losing Gibbs would incur short term pain as well).

I think people are paying way too much significance on Ben Silvagni. Who knows how he will develop? I can't see SOS trading out a top pick in the hope that his son will be a top selection, that would put enormous pressure on both himself and his son for his son to come on in a big way. SOS seems to do everything he can to keep his kids out of the limelight.

Pick 16-18 doesn't even get you an interview for Hopper .
If the mail is on the money and we are into a few Giants , our 2018 1st rounder is definitely in play considering we must take this year's 1st rounder to the draft for best available mid .

 

[Blue Doormat]

Spitball scenario taking into account several facts:

1. We have a lot of money that will have to be used by this year. (This is clearly true)
2. The 66 game rebuild finishes at the end of next year. (Suggesting we're expecting to be very competitive post 2018)
3. We've largely taken care of our KPP players and now mids are required......recruits and draftees. (Unless a 'special' FF shows up)

a. 2018 1st.+ for Hopper & D. Smith.
b. We keep our top 5 pick this year and take the best player available (likely a mid)
c. We gain Ben Silvagni for a much lower pick (second round ++)
d. We spend large on a FA, this year or next year. (Can't help feeling that we haven't just stowed away the money for a wait and see scenario. Not SOS)

2019 may well show us to have all the pieces in place.
Weitering, Marchbank, Silvagni, CCurnow, McKay, SPS, Macreadie, Fisher, Pickett all with bigger bodies and experience behind them.
(Bonus will come about should Williamson, Cuningham, Polson, LeBois make their way into our best team.)
Accompany that with young mainstays in Cripps, Docherty, Plowman, Byrne, Phillips, Sheehan and add in the influx of recruits, a FA and Ben Silvagni (I know that's a wild projection, but just for the fun of it).........and we may have a platform to launch from.

Nice to have you back Harks

 

[DangerousD]

So get rid of Kreuzer and bring in a fringe ruck?

If we are not contending until 2020 then we have season 2018-19 to develop one.
Whats the point of have a ruckman at his peak with a midfield that is weak and not playing finals to say 2019-2020.
The Swans years ago identified Mummy who was frustrated at not getting oppurtunities at the Cats, i think they paid a 3rd round pick. I'd hope if Kruz left we would use that pick 20-24 on a mid.

 

[My name geoff]

Not sure you have been keeping close tabs on the trade we did with Hawthorn. We gave GWS's second round pick which will be a likely pick 30-36 and got MacReadie, Williamson & Kerr. Do you want pick 36 now and give those three to the Hawks. There was no handshake agreement obviously we delisted a lot of players so we needed picks to replace them. It just looks like at this stage we may have hit the jackpot with those picks.

I wouldn't give Macreadie up for anything but a top 15 pick

 

[DangerousD]

Regardless if Kruz leaves at seasons end we need to sure up our ruck stocks. Phillips looks serviceable but is there better out there? Does anyone have a list of rucks currently not getting enough opportunities at their current clubs?
Would Riley O'brien from the Crows be worth pursuing in the Gibbs deal if it goes ahead?

 

[LordLucifer]

So get rid of Kreuzer and bring in a fringe ruck?

Sounds like a great idea to me.

He is finally starting to hit his straps after enduring some serious career threatening injuries plus he has knocked back lucrative offers to jump ship and has a passion for the jumper that we haven't seen at our club for some time so 'yes', it would make a lot of sense to let him go as a Free Agent.

What makes more sense to me would be to draft a young beanpole ruckman now and leave him in the seconds to develop his game and his body so that he will be ready to play seniors in 3-4 years time when Kreuzer is not far off retiring.

 

[Azul]

So get rid of Kreuzer and bring in a fringe ruck?

Toby Nankervis has cemented, after 3 games, his spot as Richmond's number one ruck.

Shaun Hampson only has 37 games left to be eligible for father/son. A fourth rounder should do the trick.

 

[bluemahogany]

Think people are overrating the cost of Hopper, he wouldn't be much different in cost to Marchbank who was rated very highly by GWS. For all the haggling from GWS we only gave up a late first for Marchbank as well as a swap of picks in our favour. I think the pick we get for Gibbs would be enough for Hopper.

 

[ParapMarkets]

Pick 16-18 doesn't even get you an interview for Hopper .
If the mail is on the money and we are into a few Giants , our 2018 1st rounder is definitely in play considering we must take this year's 1st rounder to the draft for best available mid .

Yeah fair enough but pick 16-18 is also not good enough for Gibbs. I guess I am hoping that pick will be closer to 13 (which I think would be pretty close to Hopper's value).

 

[Smegger]

What about Riley O'brien from the Crows in the Gibbs deal.

I don't think we'd be able to get him out of crowland. They're grooming him for Jacob's replacement.

 

[Smegger]

Kruezer is just starting to show what we all new he could do, I hope to hell he is kept on the books.

So do i but if he goes he'll be one of few ex-blues i'll be hoping to gain success. Just not against us.

 

[F_therest]

It would be stupid to allow Kruz to leave then get a FA of course. The logic of letting Kruz go is that we should get a pick around 20-24, Richmond showed last year you can pick up ready made rucks for 3rd and 4th round picks. There are rucks at other clubs not getting a go that could be tempted to leave with a good offer.

I hear what you're saying but if Kreuzer is finally over his injury woes...i mean right now on current form he'd be in the top 3-5 rucks in the comp.