Analysis 2017 List Management Discussion

[Arr0w]

I'd suggest that with his reported trigger clause we absolutely have control in keeping Kreuzer.

Well at least that puts that discussion to rest, finally!!

Given his contract is under market value, everyone should be happy.

So the next question is, if he is open to a trade and we get a resonable offer, do we consider trading him? My answer is YES

 

[BigFrizz36]

Good point that.

The facts are he could play for 5 more years or get a career ending injury tomorrow.

All bodies are ticking time bombs in footy.

Still remember the night he did his knee against Freo busting his gut to get to more contests. From memory Brett Thornton had to do a lot of rucking against Big Sandi that night. Was ugly.

 

[Sector 7G]

How exactly did this trigger clause come into effect for Kreuzer?
Did the clause come about form the clubs initiative or did it come from the Kreuzer camp? I'm confused.

Trigger Clause for MK - Be totally awesome in 2017. SOS has already conceded boxes are ticked. Our 2 bad efforts - Port and after half time against GC were without MK at his best.

Seeing Eddie run around for the Crow. If you love something set it free. Would rather see him kick 70 for the Crows than 35 for the Blues each year for the last 4. But I couldn't handle seeing MK in any other colour.

 

[Wickzki]

I hope we keep Kruez and Gibbs.
Wouldn't bother me if we lost Murph.
I've been driving the Tom Lynch bus since the day he was drafted.
I believe we have almost zero chance of getting him.
Watch the Pies throw the keys to the city at him.

Nah, it'll be the Blues who throw the lot at him even though it's against SOS's general plan. He will prove to be the exception.

Lynch, McKay, Curnow, Silvagni, Pickett and rotating mid. There's your forward setup for the next five or six seasons. Then we replace Lynch when he retires with a marquee free agent or trade and keep the others.

 

[Wickzki]

Seeing Eddie run around for the Crow. If you love something set it free. Would rather see him kick 70 for the Crows than 35 for the Blues each year for the last 4. But I couldn't handle seeing MK in any other colour.

Still hurts seeing Eddie in another jumper but realistically there's no way he'd be playing when we're contending. Enjoying him while he's putting in the last years of his career. Truth be told if it weren't for how the Crows tried to **** us over with Gibbs I'd hope that he'd win a premiership with them.

 

[Sector 7G]

Good point that.

The facts are he could play for 5 more years or get a career ending injury tomorrow.

All bodies are ticking time bombs in footy.

Or you can look at it that he hasn't played that much footy so could have a long career, because he hasn't been subjected to that much wear and tear. Finally got his body right and is flying.

 

[Keyza]

From what it looks like it's clearly a number of games based trigger similar to Daisy. He's been healthy and so he's going to trigger the clause.

Probably agreed by both sides but would appear to be more likely a club initiative. Probably feel that if his injuries persisted then his career would be over by this point. However, his form and health have been better than expected.

The question that I have is did he play through injuries last year in fear that he wouldn't trigger it? He did come back early from an injury, didn't he?

The article says he has played 30 of a possible 32 games and is close to the trigger clause.
I am guessing it must be about 32 games.
This covers both the club and Kreuzer. If he fails to meet it the club is not stuck with an injury prone player and if he does then the player gets another year. Win, win.

 

[Red Bull]

Still remember the night he did his knee against Freo busting his gut to get to more contests. From memory Brett Thornton had to do a lot of rucking against Big Sandi that night. Was ugly.

Was that the game where Thornton abused Simpson for not spoiling Sandilands in a marking contest even though Sandilands was Thornton's opponent ?

 

[Sector 7G]

Still hurts seeing Eddie in another jumper but realistically there's no way he'd be playing when we're contending. Enjoying him while he's putting in the last years of his career. Truth be told if it weren't for how the Crows tried to **** us over with Gibbs I'd hope that he'd win a premiership with them.

Agreed. The way I look at it is that with Sauce and Eddie they are 10% Carlton. Makes them my 2nd team. This logic does not apply for Richmond (as much as I still like Hammer)

 

[HARKER]

Mail out of Adelaide suggests WC are massively into the younger McGovern .
Almost resigned to him leaving .
WC 1st rounder for McGovern .
WC 1st rounder on traded for Gibbs .
WC 1st rounder on traded for Hopper .

Of course some may feel dudded in that scenario, but it looks like a great start point for mine.

 

[FoeverBlues]

Well at least that puts that discussion to rest, finally!!

Given his contract is under market value, everyone should be happy.

So the next question is, if he is open to a trade and we get a resonable offer, do we consider trading him? My answer is YES

I read it as MK triggered contract extension which the club must honor but it is up to him to excercise his right to stay.

He still can choose to leave as FA.

 

[Wickzki]

Of course some may feel dudded in that scenario, but it looks like a great start point for mine.

Sounds okay-ish to me. A little unders but it'll do. I still think Gibbs is worth more than pick 13-16.

Would prefer it if we could swap our third for West Coast's second in that scenario. Get us back into the second round. (Edit: It's potentially only a 5-6 pick upgrade but we may find someone we like there that wouldn't be there later).

 

[Andypooh23]

Hypothetically, say Martin, Fyfe and May leave their clubs as free agents. Potentially three Band 1 compensation picks slot into the first round. Add in a couple of round one academy picks.

Would you be as willing to part with Kreuzer if it was for Pick 24 or 27?

I'm just not sure we get enough out of that to justify the loss.

Is May even a free agent?

Gold Coast haven't even been in the league 8 seasons.

 

[HARKER]

Sounds okay-ish to me. A little unders but it'll do. I still think Gibbs is worth more than pick 13-16.

Would prefer it if we could swap our third for West Coast's second in that scenario. Get us back into the second round. (Edit: It's potentially only a 5-6 pick upgrade but we may find someone we like there that wouldn't be there later).

It doesn't matter so much for what one may receive, as much as it does for what can be attained with what has been received.

 

[Blue__Balls]

Is May even a free agent?

Gold Coast haven't even been in the league 8 seasons.

Not 100% sure, but I think he was one of the ones they picked up the year prior to joining the AFL comp.

 

[Red Bull]

Of course some may feel dudded in that scenario, but it looks like a great start point for mine.

Assuming of course that Hopper wants Carlton , importantly , all the players involved get to their desired clubs which is the way it works these days .
GWS lose a young talent but gain a nice 1st rounder to continue their production line and spread their age demographic across the list .

 

[Canyouhearthedrums]

Sounds okay-ish to me. A little unders but it'll do. I still think Gibbs is worth more than pick 13-16.

Would prefer it if we could swap our third for West Coast's second in that scenario. Get us back into the second round. (Edit: It's potentially only a 5-6 pick upgrade but we may find someone we like there that wouldn't be there later).

I'd do Gibbs for Hopper in a heartbeat given where we are at and their respective ages

 

[Arr0w]

Is May even a free agent?

Gold Coast haven't even been in the league 8 seasons.

Not a free agent, just out of contract

 

[My name geoff]

The state of our list at the start of our rebuild was diabolical (in terms of gun young players) due to us blowing the past 7 years of drafting (and blowing pretty much every player selected at the draft over that period barring Cripps).

We aint gonna fix it with a 66 game rebuild. That 'reset' just gets us back to square one. We basically drew a line through the sand starting with the 2015 draft (+ Cripps and Docherty).

Its going to take more than 3-4 drafts/ years to both assemble and develop a list around those two.



You're off the mark. Murphy, Gibbs, Kruzer, Simpson etc are all superflous to our needs. They wont see finals with this club, let alone top 4. They had their time, played a few finals, and now for them, it's done. At present they serve as loyal placeholders, experienced heads, and mature bodies to shield the kids and stop us getting totally smashed each week. Thats it. Its sad, but its the truth.

They're all free agents when their contracts expire and are free to go elsewhere if they are unhappy with the way it is.

In case you didnt notice, we played something like 12 players under 22, and 8 teenagers on the weekend. Those players are going to need 3-4 seasons/ 50-100 games to develop. In addition to the development of the teenagers we do have, we still have serious holes in the list that need filling, such as the worst forward line in the competion (still) which needs some quality forward firepower, plus we need to replace a ton of seniority and class in the midfield (Gibbs, Simpson, Murphy, Curnow, Thomas, Kruezer). That is going to take several drafts (plus free agency) to fix. Then we are going to need 3 or so years of development for those players to get mature AFL bodies.

We wont be playing finals footy again till around 2020+. There will be no 'mini rise' off the backs of Gibbs and Murphy and the kids. You and FlowersByIrene are optimists, and I applaud you for that, but this is a time for realism and 'green shoots' and 'road map' and 'stay the course' and all that Bolton jazz.

We are looking to get the most talented side of under 25 year olds we can muster ready for 2020 onwards, which we can then supplement with free agents at this time.

Everything between now and then is simply drafting and developing those kids.

We will play finals next year.

AFL is a cut throat industry and I don't think SOS and co are planning on finals from 2020.

2018-19 would be the plan.

Bulldogs had 8 players with less than 50 games in the grand final. If we were to play the same team as the one against north every game until next years finals, we will only have 4 players with less than 50 games.

Gibbs will be 29, Kruezer will be 29, Murphy will be 31.

Byrne, Cripps, Graham, Docherty, Plowman will be 23-24

SPS, Weitering, Macreadie, Silvagni, Williamson, Fisher will be roughly the same age as Boyd, Bontempelli, Caleb Daniel, McLean, Dunkley and Cordy were in the GF

Curnow, Marchbank and Cuningham will be the same age as Lachie Hunter, Stringer and Jack Macrae

 

[one_twelve112]

Still remember the night he did his knee against Freo busting his gut to get to more contests. From memory Brett Thornton had to do a lot of rucking against Big Sandi that night. Was ugly.

You could hear a pin drop at Etihad....it was like watching your favourite pub burning down.

 

[Keyza]

I read it as MK triggered contract extension which the club must honor but it is up to him to excercise his right to stay.

He still can choose to leave as FA.

I am not sure how these trigger clauses work.
The last sentence of the article says "It also has the effect of binding the player to the club if he meets it."
I take that as meaning that the club also has a say.

 

[BigFrizz36]

Was that the game where Thornton abused Simpson for not spoiling Sandilands in a marking contest even though Sandilands was Thornton's opponent ?

Was ahead of his time our Brett. Was a good finger pointer/blamer well before Goddard.

 

[Wickzki]

I'd do Gibbs for Hopper in a heartbeat given where we are at and their respective ages

Good point. It's a bit like arguing what we got from Geelong wasn't enough for Tuohy yet we ended up with Marchbank.

 

[FoeverBlues]

I dearly hope Kruzer is over his injury curse and be the no 1 ruck for us in next 5 years.

To build a sustain success we need honorable, loyal club men like Kruezers, Murphys, Docs, Simmos around etc to lead the young shoots on and off field.

We already have a great bunch of talented kids coming in from last two years and rest asure that SOS is not resting on his laurels but working hard in hauling in the next lots thru shrewd tradings and draftings.

I think rebuilding is quicker now with FA and smart list/salary managing.

 

[Wickzki]

So say we add Hopper via Gibbs, Lynch via free agency, draft Darcy Fogarty;

I can eventually seeing that become a best 18 of:

FB: Plowman - Weitering - Macreadie
HB: Docherty - Marchbank - Byrne
C: Petrevski-Seton - Cripps - Williamson
HF: Curnow - Lynch - Cuningham
FF: Silvagni - McKay - Pickett
RU: Kreuzer - Fogarty - Hopper

Somewhere over the