2017 Rising Star Discussion

[FlowersByIrene]

If it did, then you wouldn't see players with higher turnover counts than clanger counts for the year (eg. Dustin Martin).

Well it does. Its defined as such by Champion Data who coined the term.

It isnt the same as disposal efficiency though. Rushed kicks or kicks to contests arent direct turnovers, and they probably give leniency to kicks over 40m

Its only shorter kicks or handballs in space that go directly to the opposition that count.

 

[Effes]

From the Prospectus

Clanger: An error made by a player resulting in a negative result for their side. Disposal clangers are any kick or handball that directly turns the ball over to the opposition. Frees & 50 metres penalties against, No Pressure Errors, Dropped Marks, Ball-Up Kick-Ins and Debits are all included in clangers.

Burton currently ranked 1st among rising stars in total turnovers, Sam Powell-Pepper currently ranked 1st among rising stars in total clangers.

 

[FlowersByIrene]

From the Prospectus



Burton currently ranked 1st among rising stars in total turnovers, Sam Powell-Pepper currently ranked 1st among rising stars in total clangers.

So what youre saying is... Curnow for the Rising Star?

 

[Procrastinator35]

Burton currently ranked 1st among rising stars in total turnovers, Sam Powell-Pepper currently ranked 1st among rising stars in total clangers.

Numbers wise, or percentage wise?.....Numbers would suggest Burton has had way more of the ball than any of the others.....I was under the impression that his disposal efficiency % was the highest of all RS?

 

[Effes]

As it says, total turnovers, however, Burton is currently ranked 2nd among rising stars in Effective Disposals Per Game and ranked 1st among rising stars in Total Effective Disposals

 

[Effes]

So what youre saying is... Curnow for the Rising Star?

He's finishing very well. Think Burton still wins but Charlie is doing well playing 2nd banana.

 

[Cynic]

So what youre saying is... Curnow for the Rising Star?

No. It would go to the behemoth of consistency and reliability in H.Himmelberg who is last and third last in clangers/turnovers. Just needs a nomination and will walk it in.

 

[Cynic]

Interesting the media don't think the award is fait accompli. Burton may need one more good game to seal it and could well be rested this week which would be interesting.

Also interesting is the media think SPP's two horrendous weeks 'may' hurt his chances :/

 

[HairyO]

Interesting the media don't think the award is fait accompli. Burton may need one more good game to seal it and could well be rested this week which would be interesting.

Also interesting is the media think SPP's two horrendous weeks 'may' hurt his chances :/

I dont think either of those things is surprising. Burton has had an incredible year.

But why would he be rested? We arent playing finals, so surely we should get as many games in to our kids as possible?

 

[Fatcat08]

Perhaps simplification is what's needed. Who has had the most impact and influence on games this year? That's all it should be a judgement on, not a prediction of the future or estimation of potential.

Overall, Curnow has had the greater all-round impact. Aside from a goal or two a week, and the occasional highlight, Hipwood really hasn't done that much, and shouldn't really even be in the conversation IMO.

And this is where you showed you don't actually watch brisbane games and are going purely off stats, as per my comment earlier.

 

[Damon_3388]

And this is where you showed you don't actually watch brisbane games and are going purely off stats, as per my comment earlier.

I do both. The stats back up the assertions I'm making, which I've developed from watching, hence why I'm presenting the stats as further evidence.

As an aside, I'm f**king sick of these eye test "experts" who assume that any reference to statistics means you don't watch the game. It's not a one or the other proposition.

 

[Burtman]

I think Clarke will finish in the votes by the end of the season, he had a down patch in the middle of the year, but will still play 16+ games and now more than likely average 20+ touches a game.

Can't see him getting votes ahead of burton, spp, McGrath, curnow, hipwood

 

[Cynic]

Can't see him getting votes ahead of burton, spp, McGrath, curnow, hipwood

Or Marchbank or SPS

 

[captainrich]

Or Marchbank or SPS

or Witherden

 

[Rabbitpig]

or Witherden

Or Liam Anthony

 

[Fatcat08]

I do both. The stats back up the assertions I'm making, which I've developed from watching, hence why I'm presenting the stats as further evidence.

As an aside, I'm f**king sick of these eye test "experts" who assume that any reference to statistics means you don't watch the game. It's not a one or the other proposition.

Statistics have a place, absolutely, but all your original post did was point to a stats sheet comparing two young players that play very different roles in their side and proclaim that that was proof that they weren't even close as far as overall performance goes this year. Personally I'm f**king sick of these stats obsessed people who just point to stats as evidence and when they get called up on that being a very simplistic way of looking at things, proceed to then go and backtrack and say that they combine it with watching games as well. You didn't present stats as further evidence, you presented them as the only evidence, therein lies my issue with it.

Had you said that you've watched them both and said the curnow gets up the ground more and plays a linking role, rather than further up in the forward line kicking goals, and that you value the former more than the second, and then posted the stats this wouldn't have even been an issue. I probably would have objected to the fact that you're saying its not close but still I wouldn't have had an issue with the opinion, because it was based in something more than a simple stat line.

Don't turn yourself around and play the victim here. You presented one view only of something and then try to paint me as the person who isn't taking a holistic view of something. Spare me the self righteousness

 

[FlowersByIrene]

Statistics have a place, absolutely, but all your original post did was point to a stats sheet comparing two young players that play very different roles in their side and proclaim that that was proof that they weren't even close as far as overall performance goes this year. Personally I'm f**king sick of these stats obsessed people who just point to stats as evidence and when they get called up on that being a very simplistic way of looking at things, proceed to then go and backtrack and say that they combine it with watching games as well. You didn't present stats as further evidence, you presented them as the only evidence, therein lies my issue with it.

Had you said that you've watched them both and said the curnow gets up the ground more and plays a linking role, rather than further up in the forward line kicking goals, and that you value the former more than the second, and then posted the stats this wouldn't have even been an issue. I probably would have objected to the fact that you're saying its not close but still I wouldn't have had an issue with the opinion, because it was based in something more than a simple stat line.

Don't turn yourself around and play the victim here. You presented one view only of something and then try to paint me as the person who isn't taking a holistic view of something. Spare me the self righteousness

Curnow is a better player though.. statistically, the eye test, he's better.

 

[Fatcat08]

Curnow is a better player though.. statistically, the eye test, he's better.

in your opinion. Mine is that Hipwood sits one goal behind your best goal kicker for the season, despite playing one less game, in the club currently last on the ladder with a fellow second year player, or josh walker or michael close playing as the other KPF. Thats pretty impressive.

 

[Damon_3388]

Statistics have a place, absolutely, but all your original post did was point to a stats sheet comparing two young players that play very different roles in their side and proclaim that that was proof that they weren't even close as far as overall performance goes this year. Personally I'm f**king sick of these stats obsessed people who just point to stats as evidence and when they get called up on that being a very simplistic way of looking at things, proceed to then go and backtrack and say that they combine it with watching games as well. You didn't present stats as further evidence, you presented them as the only evidence, therein lies my issue with it.

Had you said that you've watched them both and said the curnow gets up the ground more and plays a linking role, rather than further up in the forward line kicking goals, and that you value the former more than the second, and then posted the stats this wouldn't have even been an issue. I probably would have objected to the fact that you're saying its not close but still I wouldn't have had an issue with the opinion, because it was based in something more than a simple stat line.

Don't turn yourself around and play the victim here. You presented one view only of something and then try to paint me as the person who isn't taking a holistic view of something. Spare me the self righteousness

Zero feeling of victimisation or righteousness here. I've said my piece, and I simply disagree with you.

 

[Bic]

in your opinion. Mine is that Hipwood sits one goal behind your best goal kicker for the season, despite playing one less game, in the club currently last on the ladder with a fellow second year player, or josh walker or michael close playing as the other KPF. Thats pretty impressive.

We've also scored 200 points less than you in the year, the lowest in the competition.

Can spin stats however you like I guess.

 

[Fatcat08]

We've also scored 200 points less than you in the year, the lowest in the competition.

Can spin stats however you like I guess.

Absolutely. You've had 17 more inside 50's even

 

[Buzzasto DaSilva]

Curnow is a better player though.. statistically, the eye test, he's better.

Your opinion. Mine is that Hipwood is and will be a better player.

 

[marty36]

With Port dropping SPP for getting 3 possies last week you would think that puts him out of the running

Burton for me is a shoe in now


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[HairyO]

Curnow is a better player though.. statistically, the eye test, he's better.

The eye test only works for neutrals. Of course you see more in Curnow.

 

[Procrastinator35]

With Port dropping SPP for getting 3 possies last week you would think that puts him out of the running

Burton for me is a shoe in now

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He should be.....But as we all know....Palmer beat out Cyril in 2008, so anything can happen with these wise monkeys.