2017 Trade and FA thread

[Cockliff38]

Don't understand what you mean by that statement but..... normally a goal kicking coach has experience in goal kicking, a ruck coach has experience in rucking and a midfield coach has played a few games in the midfield in his day. Doesn't automatically make them a good coach but sure does give them a good start over someone else. No disrespect to Huddo (said that 1000 times because of the Huddo lovers getting upset) but if Lynchy was available, I would be wrapped to see him help out the young KPF's in conjunction with Huddo. He sometimes does get out there atm but not in an official capacity.
In a more simplistic view, to win games we need to kick more goals than the opposition. So far this year we have only done that once in a game, hence we have only won 1 game. That's a stat worth considering as well as the others Huddo lovers mention each week. The way the forwards lead needs tweaking and the way the ball comes into the forward line also needs a review. If we can get better at something even when we are perceived as being "not bad" at the moment, why wouldn't you continue to improve & get stronger? To me it's irrelevant who our current forwards coach is, there are things we can be better at so lets get better at them.

By the same token, to win games we need to keep the opposition to a lower score than us - so why isn't the same level of animosity being directed at Murray Davis, who statistically will own two of the worst performing defences in AFL history?

I think before we can properly assess Hudson's worth as a forwards' coach we need to resolve our ball movement. The forwards don't stand a chance at the present time, so it's really hard to determine if our structures are holding up.

To be clear I'm not necessarily defending Hudson, I don't think anyone has produced relevant analysis on our forward line's effectiveness, but I think he is being hard done by in this thread.

 

[Dalions]

I thought that the job of a line coach, was to
re-affirm the senior coaches messages in relation to game plans, structures, set ups both behind and in front of the ball. I wouldn't personally think that it is the job of a line coach to go out on his own and come up with a completely different plan to the way the rest of the team is playing. Everything should work as 1 from back to front.

 

[M Malice]

No need for all this discussion SEN said we are merging with the Suns and moving to Tasmania.

 

[jackess]

I don't understand why these people don't get that the defensive coach runs the goalkicking drills.

Are you asking why the forwards coach would be in charge of what happens in the forward line?

Are you guys serious? Whose to say the forward coach would be the best person at the club to teach it.

 

[BRAB]

Are you guys serious? Whose to say the forward coach would be the best person at the club to teach it.

You must have quoted the wrong person. I am advocating for the water boy to teach goal kicking.

 

[Dalions]

Are you guys serious? Whose to say the forward coach would be the best person at the club to teach it.

Sydney has only just employed a specialist kicking coach in Plugga. Not sure if any teams have regular kicking coaches unless a particular player is struggling with set shots. Ie (Daniher) with Lloyd.

 

[Forward We Go]

By the same token, to win games we need to keep the opposition to a lower score than us - so why isn't the same level of animosity being directed at Murray Davis, who statistically will own two of the worst performing defences in AFL history?

I think before we can properly assess Hudson's worth as a forwards' coach we need to resolve our ball movement. The forwards don't stand a chance at the present time, so it's really hard to determine if our structures are holding up.

To be clear I'm not necessarily defending Hudson, I don't think anyone has produced relevant analysis on our forward line's effectiveness, but I think he is being hard done by in this thread.

I don't have ANY animosity to Ben Hudson. None. Zero. In fact, I think he's doing a reasonable job.
I JUST THINK WE COULD DO BETTER. And what I have mentioned several times is how I think we could do better. Stop defending the bloke when I am not attacking him with "animosity". Phew.

 

[spotthedog1]

I thought that the job of a line coach, was to
re-affirm the senior coaches messages in relation to game plans, structures, set ups both behind and in front of the ball. I wouldn't personally think that it is the job of a line coach to go out on his own and come up with a completely different plan to the way the rest of the team is playing. Everything should work as 1 from back to front.

Absolutely, but in my (admittedly limited) experience, the different lines also split up into different skills based training sessions as well. The backs look at spoiling techniques, and receive coaching on positioning, etc. The mids run training on clearances and stoppages and tackling and ball movement, etc. The forwards look at patterns and marking and goal kicking, etc. They are all in the context of the entire gameplan, and they all come back together and do group training too (mids have to be able to goal kick, and forwards have to be able to tackle, etc), but there are specific lines with specific skills trainings to fit into the gameplan.

Are you guys serious? Whose to say the forward coach would be the best person at the club to teach it.

Yes, I'm generally I moderately serious person. I don't mind a joke and can have a laugh from time to time, but it'd be fair to describe me as serious.

Edit: oh, and the second part. Well, the job title for starters.

 

[Mr Ripper]

Do line coaches have that much autonomy that they can be singled out for blame for certain failures in their respective areas?

 

[Eons]

Can we get better line coaches who could improve the team? Who knows.

In the second half of the year I would love to see a marked improvement in leading patterns and for our midfield not to continually bomb the ball inside 50. Our forwards are young and continue to be out muscled in the contest and we have no decent small forwards at the drop of the ball to create pressure and kick goals.

Midfielders are probably bombing it inside 50 because no one is leading. Love to see them kick to space inside 50 rather than bomb it long, teach the forwards that if they want the ball they need to lead and create space.

 

[jackess]

Absolutely, but in my (admittedly limited) experience, the different lines also split up into different skills based training sessions as well. The backs look at spoiling techniques, and receive coaching on positioning, etc. The mids run training on clearances and stoppages and tackling and ball movement, etc. The forwards look at patterns and marking and goal kicking, etc. They are all in the context of the entire gameplan, and they all come back together and do group training too (mids have to be able to goal kick, and forwards have to be able to tackle, etc), but there are specific lines with specific skills trainings to fit into the gameplan.

Yes, I'm generally I moderately serious person. I don't mind a joke and can have a laugh from time to time, but it'd be fair to describe me as serious.

Edit: oh, and the second part. Well, the job title for starters.

So you're taking applications for the forward coach role. There is a standout candidate but he isn't great at teaching goal kicking. Do you hire him and get somebody else to teach goal kicking or go for the lesser forward coach who can teach goal kicking reasonably well?

 

[M Malice]

Senior coach: Chris Fagan
Football strategy: Danny Daly
Forwards: Ben Hudson
Defence: Murray Davis
Midfield: Dale Tapping
Assistant midfield: Jed Adcock
Development coaches: Scott Borlace, Mitch Hahn, Paul Henriksen, Zane Littlejohn
Opposition coach: Danny Daly

You would think that the development coaches would be performing most of the skills coaching eg. handball/kicking/marks/tackling/set shots etc.

Fagan would set the game structures/plans/style with the line coaches carrying out those instructions and putting forward ideas to Fagan for consideration. If the line coaches are not delivering what Fagan wants they will be let go.

 

[jackess]

Senior coach: Chris Fagan
Football strategy: Danny Daly
Forwards: Ben Hudson
Defence: Murray Davis
Midfield: Dale Tapping
Assistant midfield: Jed Adcock
Development coaches: Scott Borlace, Mitch Hahn, Paul Henriksen, Zane Littlejohn
Opposition coach: Danny Daly

You would think that the development coaches would be performing most of the skills coaching eg. handball/kicking/marks/tackling/set shots etc.

Fagan would set the game structures/plans/style with the line coaches carrying out those instructions and putting forward ideas to Fagan for consideration. If the line coaches are not delivering what Fagan wants they will be let go.

You're probably missing Davis and Daly setting out the game structures, plans, etc. with Fagan working above that.

 

[spotthedog1]

So you're taking applications for the forward coach role. There is a standout candidate but he isn't great at teaching goal kicking. Do you hire him and get somebody else to teach goal kicking or go for the lesser forward coach who can teach goal kicking reasonably well?

Mate, you're going way over the top. I have no opinion on Hudson's coaching ability. I haven't seen him at a single training session, and not once have I suggested that he isn't good, that our goal kicking is poor (sure, it sucked v Adelaide), that there is any problem in our coaching, or anything else of the sort. But your adamant insistence that goal kicking isn't Hudson's job is ridiculous. He's the forwards coach. I'll happily concede that there are ways of structuring it that someone else could teach it, and realistically, I reckon the coaches would all help give advice and info all over the ground and would occasionally take different lines and players through specific tasks. But really, I reckon coaching or delegating coaching of goal kicking will be under the auspices of the forwards coach. For the very simple reason that it's part of the forward line. I honestly have no idea what point you are trying to make.

 

[Carlos Danger]

Sydney has only just employed a specialist kicking coach in Plugga. Not sure if any teams have regular kicking coaches unless a particular player is struggling with set shots. Ie (Daniher) with Lloyd.

Plugger just needed some cash cos the greyhound issues up there

 

[jackess]

Mate, you're going way over the top. I have no opinion on Hudson's coaching ability. I haven't seen him at a single training session, and not once have I suggested that he isn't good, that our goal kicking is poor (sure, it sucked v Adelaide), that there is any problem in our coaching, or anything else of the sort. But your adamant insistence that goal kicking isn't Hudson's job is ridiculous. He's the forwards coach. I'll happily concede that there are ways of structuring it that someone else could teach it, and realistically, I reckon the coaches would all help give advice and info all over the ground and would occasionally take different lines and players through specific tasks. But really, I reckon coaching or delegating coaching of goal kicking will be under the auspices of the forwards coach. For the very simple reason that it's part of the forward line. I honestly have no idea what point you are trying to make.

I'm mainly going off another poster saying that Adcock is in charge of goal kicking and the fact that other clubs have had part timers in charge of theirs.

 

[Forward We Go]

Do line coaches have that much autonomy that they can be singled out for blame for certain failures in their respective areas?

Good point. Think they can be held accountable for the basic game plan agreed to that the coach responsible for that particular area has to implement. Whether it works or not is something he cannot be blamed for.

 

[baaaall!]

If Schache leaves, would it be worth bringing Tippett in for a couple of years? With the swans looking for cap relief, they could look to off load him on the cheap. (think Sam Mitchell) He could provide a mature target up forward for a couple of years while Eric/Ballenden develop. Thoughts?

 

[baaaall!]

Also throw everything at Steven May. Is exactly what we need

 

[carnthemlions]

Mate, you're going way over the top. I have no opinion on Hudson's coaching ability. I haven't seen him at a single training session, and not once have I suggested that he isn't good, that our goal kicking is poor (sure, it sucked v Adelaide), that there is any problem in our coaching, or anything else of the sort. But your adamant insistence that goal kicking isn't Hudson's job is ridiculous. He's the forwards coach. I'll happily concede that there are ways of structuring it that someone else could teach it, and realistically, I reckon the coaches would all help give advice and info all over the ground and would occasionally take different lines and players through specific tasks. But really, I reckon coaching or delegating coaching of goal kicking will be under the auspices of the forwards coach. For the very simple reason that it's part of the forward line. I honestly have no idea what point you are trying to make.

Goal kicking isn't just relevant to the core 'forward' group though, it's something most players would work on at times. It also has nothing to do with the structures etc of the forward line. So no, Ben Hudson doesn't have to know much about goal kicking.

 

[LongLion]

If Schache leaves, would it be worth bringing Tippett in for a couple of years? With the swans looking for cap relief, they could look to off load him on the cheap. (think Sam Mitchell) He could provide a mature target up forward for a couple of years while Eric/Ballenden develop. Thoughts?

If he could stay on the park maybe but always seems to be injured and would not want to pay overs for him.

 

[Forward We Go]

Goal kicking isn't just relevant to the core 'forward' group though, it's something most players would work on at times. It also has nothing to do with the structures etc of the forward line. So no, Ben Hudson doesn't have to know much about goal kicking.

Yeah...Nah. An individuals ability to kick goals differently to his other team mates has a significant impact on forward line structures. Sorry but that's not right. Additionally, goal kicking is very much a mental skill as well as a physical one. Ben himself has a lot to do with the positive natures of each forward in our structure. Splitting hairs here really BUT, a forward line coach has pretty much something to do with ALL aspects of a forward lines performance. He is exempt from nothing to do with forward line performance.

 

[Forward We Go]

If he could stay on the park maybe but always seems to be injured and would not want to pay overs for him.

I really like Casboult. Sure he's not the best set shot at goal but he is very good at taking marks, has a big body & is not scared to throw his weight around. Additionally I think he's out of contract at the end of the year & wouldn't be as expensive as Tippett.

 

[M Malice]

I really like Casboult. Sure he's not the best set shot at goal but he is very good at taking marks, has a big body & is not scared to throw his weight around. Additionally I think he's out of contract at the end of the year & wouldn't be as expensive as Tippett.

He is OOC at the end of the year and he will be a Restricted Free Agent. If we went for either of Tippett/Casboult I would rather Casboult.

 

[Fatcat08]

Don't understand what you mean by that statement but..... normally a goal kicking coach has experience in goal kicking, a ruck coach has experience in rucking and a midfield coach has played a few games in the midfield in his day. Doesn't automatically make them a good coach but sure does give them a good start over someone else. No disrespect to Huddo (said that 1000 times because of the Huddo lovers getting upset) but if Lynchy was available, I would be wrapped to see him help out the young KPF's in conjunction with Huddo. He sometimes does get out there atm but not in an official capacity.
In a more simplistic view, to win games we need to kick more goals than the opposition. So far this year we have only done that once in a game, hence we have only won 1 game. That's a stat worth considering as well as the others Huddo lovers mention each week. The way the forwards lead needs tweaking and the way the ball comes into the forward line also needs a review. If we can get better at something even when we are perceived as being "not bad" at the moment, why wouldn't you continue to improve & get stronger? To me it's irrelevant who our current forwards coach is, there are things we can be better at so lets get better at them.

I don't really see many Huddo Lovers around here. What i do see are a few people that got annoyed with a bunch of lazy posts that were initially made that basically carried the message that you can't coach a forward line if you haven't been a gun forward yourself, and its snowballed from there.

Do you have to be a good forward yourself to be a good forwards coach? - no (thats pretty proven given the list of appointments at AFL level in this position)

Is huddo a good forwards coach? - who knows. I tend to lead towards the he's not bad but he's not great sort of camp based on what I see when I watch live at the game.

Do I have a problem with people pulling wide reaching assumptions out of their rectum and will pull them up on it even if I don't necessarily disgree with the point they may be trying to make - yes (but that doesn't make me a huddo lover)

Is this making a point in the form of asking and answering questions myself getting tedious and making me look like a douche - probably.