2017 Trade and FA thread

[Comeback Lions]

IIRC Hammelmann is a promote or delist candidate due to his three years on the rookie list.

I know. But he can be redrafted as a rookie after delisting, if not promoted, at least that’s my understanding.

 

[dlanod]

Technically we can redraft him as a rookie though right? So long as we take him as a live selection.

I know. But he can be redrafted as a rookie after delisting, if not promoted, at least that’s my understanding.

It's legal, but realistically it doesn't happen. Looking at what the clubs actually do, they view the three year mark as a "promote or delist" barrier - if you haven't indicated that you're worth a senior spot after three years, it's time to move on.

 

[Nunez]

It's legal, but realistically it doesn't happen. Looking at what the clubs actually do, they view the three year mark as a "promote or delist" barrier - if you haven't indicated that you're worth a senior spot after three years, it's time to move on.

Which I reckon is fair enough too. The only thing that makes me think otherwise is I think we'll likely delist Close and given rookies can now play without being upgraded, we might see this as an opportunity to keep that list spot for a dfa like Boekhurst or a mature age recruit at the back end of the draft and Hammer stays on our list who can play when needed and we can track his development for another year (this is all assuming we think he's worth persisting with).

 

[Rocketman1984]

Which I reckon is fair enough too. The only thing that makes me think otherwise is I think we'll likely delist Close and given rookies can now play without being upgraded, we might see this as an opportunity to keep that list spot for a dfa like Boekhurst or a mature age recruit at the back end of the draft and Hammer stays on our list who can play when needed and we can track his development for another year (this is all assuming we think he's worth persisting with).

I would delist three, Skinner (only cos of injury) ,Close and C Beams, put C Beams and Skinner on rookie list and grab Crameri and Trengrove. With Hodge that means we have three leaders - back, midfield and forwards. Too much is being asked of Hipwood, remember Franklin had Roughead and Williams when he was coming through

 

[briztoon]

Has this been confirmed anywhere, or just speculation based off their contract status?

Speculation based purely on what draft picks we have.

We have three first round picks, plus three picks between 40 and 52 worth decent points.

6 picks, but currently 4 senior spots and 1 rookie spot available.

 

[Harris Specter]

I would delist three, Skinner (only cos of injury) ,Close and C Beams, put C Beams and Skinner on rookie list and grab Crameri and Trengrove. With Hodge that means we have three leaders - back, midfield and forwards. Too much is being asked of Hipwood, remember Franklin had Roughead and Williams when he was coming through

No chance of Skinner being delisted especially when he signed a contract extension. Crameri and Trengrove are done, they're not really leaders. Looks like beer o clock has come a day early judging by this post.

 

[LeppaMessiah]

I would delist three, Skinner (only cos of injury) ,Close and C Beams, put C Beams and Skinner on rookie list and grab Crameri and Trengrove. With Hodge that means we have three leaders - back, midfield and forwards. Too much is being asked of Hipwood, remember Franklin had Roughead and Williams when he was coming through

Skinner is contracted I believe, Crameri has glass hips and Trengrove is cooked. Also I remember Franklin had Ben Dixon and Mark Williams when he was coming through, Roughead was drafted the same year as Franklin so I'm not sure how much Roughead sheltered Franklin as he was learning his trade.

 

[Rocketman1984]

Skinner is contracted I believe, Crameri has glass hips and Trengrove is cooked. Also I remember Franklin had Ben Dixon and Mark Williams when he was coming through, Roughead was drafted the same year as Franklin so I'm not sure how much Roughead sheltered Franklin as he was learning his trade.

My point is that we have lost our best midfielder cum forward and our future full forward so unless we find even short term replacements we could come last again. That would create even worse crowds, further debt and the continual decline of the Brisbane Lions in the Qld sporting market. If you want to keep young talent you need to start winning games

 

[jackess]

My point is that we have lost our best midfielder cum forward and our future full forward so unless we find even short term replacements we could come last again. That would create even worse crowds, further debt and the continual decline of the Brisbane Lions in the Qld sporting market. If you want to keep young talent you need to start winning games

You don't think anyone in our squad will improve? Remembering we have Robinson and Christensen coming back from injury

 

[LeppaMessiah]

My point is that we have lost our best midfielder cum forward and our future full forward so unless we find even short term replacements we could come last again. That would create even worse crowds, further debt and the continual decline of the Brisbane Lions in the Qld sporting market. If you want to keep young talent you need to start winning games

Sorry but I don't see how trengrove and Crameri are the difference between us winning and losing every week. Don't you see a natural scope for improvement based on the players we've got? Andrews, Hipwood, Mcstay, Mayes, Mathieson, Keays is where I see some natural improvement coming from based on years in the system, exposure and opportunity. Not to mention Robinson and Christensen coming back into the team along with Hodge and Charlie Cameron.

 

[Rocketman1984]

You don't think anyone in our squad will improve? Remembering we have Robinson and Christensen coming back from injury

Take your point there but especially Christensen and the way he plays is a serious long term injury risk. I just think we need to take the GWS approach and have insurance in some positions ie Steve J , De Boer players that may be past there best but fill a need. We are doing it with Hodge that's but I also think Crameri is worth the risk (read today's AFl com) who in the squad apart from Hipwood would you put a grand on to kick 40 goals in a season.

 

[jackess]

Take your point there but especially Christensen and the way he plays is a serious long term injury risk. I just think we need to take the GWS approach and have insurance in some positions ie Steve J , De Boer players that may be past there best but fill a need. We are doing it with Hodge that's we I think Crameri is worth the risk (read today's AFl com) who in the squad apart from Hipwood would you put a grand on to kick 50 goals in a season.

GWS are pushing for a premiership. We're building a talented list. We already have a lot of experience in the midfield; Martin, Beams, Zorko, Rich, Bundy, Robinson, Christensen, Bewick, Bell and Bastinac.

 

[M Malice]

I really liked Stewart Crameri at his best, would have been an ideal 3rd tall but he has only played 2 games in the last 2 years, also 29 years of age so for where we are as a list ATM probably not the right fit.

 

[LeppaMessiah]

Take your point there but especially Christensen and the way he plays is a serious long term injury risk. I just think we need to take the GWS approach and have insurance in some positions ie Steve J , De Boer players that may be past there best but fill a need. We are doing it with Hodge that's but I also think Crameri is worth the risk (read today's AFl com) who in the squad apart from Hipwood would you put a grand on to kick 50 goals in a season.

If Crameri gets picked up by any team at all I would happily wager $1000 with you that next year he will not kick 50 goals.

 

[Rocketman1984]

GWS are pushing for a premiership. We're building a talented list. We already have a lot of experience in the midfield; Martin, Beams, Zorko, Rich, Bundy, Robinson, Christensen, Bewick, Bell and Bastinac.

You lost me at Bell and Bewick lol, two A graders, a ruckman who's kicks go mainly to the opposition . Rich is now a back man , Robinson and Christensen have missed almost a year each and you don't want to bring in an experienced midfielder

 

[Forward We Go]

My point is that we have lost our best midfielder cum forward and our future full forward so unless we find even short term replacements we could come last again. That would create even worse crowds, further debt and the continual decline of the Brisbane Lions in the Qld sporting market. If you want to keep young talent you need to start winning games

No doubt Rocky was a good midfielder & will be missed but I question whether he was our best as you say. IMO, Binga is our best player full stop & plays in a mid fielder's role & is a great kick for goal. The future "full forward" had little positive impact in his career at the Lions so I cant see him being missed while we have guys like Walker & Hippy expected to step up a little bit more in 2018 while having Cameron, Bundy etc all around the ball when it comes to ground in our forward 50. That being said, I have no doubt that there will be a handfull young players on our list who will step up and be headache's for our opposition.
Doubt we will come last in season 2018 as you suggest but realistically we probably will still be in bottom 4 sides in the comp with 6-8 wins. (Fingers crossed) Agree 100% that winning games helps to keep players on your list but you need quality players to firstly win the games you mention. (Chicken & egg scenario) I also think our supporters will be satisfied providing there is improvement from 1 year to another. At least supporters have hope now with a solid foundation in place that will/should provide positive results in the years to come. ALL FOR ONE.

 

[jackess]

You lost me at Bell and Bewick lol, two A graders, a ruckman who's kicks go mainly to the opposition . Rich is now a back man , Robinson and Christensen have missed almost a year each and you don't want to bring in an experienced midfielder

I don't think the 'experienced' part is necessary. We need quality midfielders but we have the experience out on the field to help develop the young midfielders already.

 

[spotthedog1]

Rather than looking at it that way, why cant you see it like:
We have:
Andrews
Hipwood
Beams
Taylor
Cameron
Hodge
Martin
Berry
Zorko
Gardner
Rich
McStay
Matheson
Etc
THEY ALL WANT TO PLAY FOOTY FOR US. Here's cheers to that. Why is the glass always half empty? If its a shit sandwich to you, maybe change the place you buy that sandwich from, or maybe, change your order from shit to something you might like better.

Oh yay. We have 13 players who want to play for us? Ok, without the sarcasm. You've named a lot of solid contributors there who would get a game at most clubs, but not set the world alight at any. The exceptions are:
- Hipwood and Andrews - solid A graders, future stars
- Zorko, Beams, Hodge - A graders, but won't be around for our next window (Beams the youngest of them, 28 before next season. Zorko 29, Hodge 30-something).

Really hoping Berry continues through 2018. Looked great on the park this year. Clugga should grow into his game and be a great pickup too - hopefully with us.

You can look at it as glass half full and think that's amazing and all that. I think, realistically, that we have a good mix of players there, who should be able to help us up the ladder a bit. Backline key posts fairly well sorted for a decade there. Forward line, if Ballenden comes along, hopefully. Mids - not even close. Need to add a lot of players in there. That's OK, because we have number 1 this year, and a top 3 pick next year, and if we can start retaining players, then we may be in with something in the year or two following that.

The issue is though, we had the go home 5. Made changes, improved things. Traded for Beams - been OK, injuries hurt him, and the wrong age for our list - won't be part of a finals push. Lost Aish, made fixes, improved things. Now we've lost Schache. And the story about "oh, we've fixed our retention problems" starts to look like overly-optimistic rubbish. Aish was a one-off. So is Schache. Really hope Clugga re-signs, but at this stage, I'm hesitant to commit. By the look of it, so is he. You can see it on Bigfooty too - the number of times I've seen "12 for Cameron was OK. Pick 12 may have just walked after 2 years anyway". Seriously - we think we've fixed our issues, but we still half expect any draftee to head home at the end of his first contract. Subconsciously, we are already preparing for it.

It's not even our fault necessarily. Increasingly, top picks have grown up being told they'll be a star, and the precedent is there that if they would prefer to work near their family and friends, they can get it done by uttering one sentence. It's far too easy.

So we can keep turning 1st rounders into 2nd rounders, and then turning 2nd and 3rd rounders into solid B grade players (that's not an insult, every team needs a bunch of them, and no team can afford to have 10 A graders). But at this stage, yeah, I'm less optimistic about our future success. We have potential, but every fan rates their own team's list. Now we're overpaying for B-graders like Cameron and voluntarily trading out top 5 picks for scraps. And seriously - have a look at Noble's trades in Adelaide - he does that. He buys high and sells low. Some of them work out. Some don't.

So no, I don't view the glass as half full. I'm hopeful that a well coached team of B graders can make finals... eventually. But I've been burnt too many times to think we can get premiership glory under the current player contract rules. I just think there's too much stacked against us.

 

[bato]

Soooo... Hartung delisted, hey?

 

[Chezz]

Soooo... Hartung delisted, hey?

Just ask 3KZ Football... a gun apparently! I'd rather pick up Lennon as a DFA.

Actually if McKenzie is delisted, then definitely him. Kicks better than basically our entire squad

 

[jackess]

Soooo... Hartung delisted, hey?

Rookie list

 

[Chezz]

So we can keep turning 1st rounders into 2nd rounders, and then turning 2nd and 3rd rounders into solid B grade players (that's not an insult, every team needs a bunch of them, and no team can afford to have 10 A graders). But at this stage, yeah, I'm less optimistic about our future success. We have potential, but every fan rates their own team's list. Now we're overpaying for B-graders like Cameron and voluntarily trading out top 5 picks for scraps.

As long as we continue to do this, we will be rooted at the foot of the table. Sure getting B graders in will help us win some games, but we have the least top end talent in the league. Continually losing all these first rounders is just killing us

 

[bato]

Just ask 3KZ Football... a gun apparently! I'd rather pick up Lennon as a DFA.

Actually if McKenzie is delisted, then definitely him. Kicks better than basically our entire squad

They're both incredibly average - Lennon is borderline terrible compared to the standard of players around him.

 

[spotthedog1]

I think we'll go for Hartung. I seem to recall Fagan is a fan, and he's the age profile and need (strong running).

Won't set the world alight, but not a bad choice for a 2 year contract when you have to give up zero to get him. Spots in our midfield harder to come by nowadays, but still 10 times easier than the Hawks midfield. You'd have to think Hartung would play 10+ games and set good standards in training. If the regular first team experience doesn't improve him significantly after 2 years, delist and no loss.

And if we don't, no worries. Means Fagan doesn't think he's worth it, and can't fault the guy for not giving a contract to a guy he likes.

 

[Forward We Go]

Oh yay. We have 13 players who want to play for us? Ok, without the sarcasm. You've named a lot of solid contributors there who would get a game at most clubs, but not set the world alight at any. The exceptions are:
- Hipwood and Andrews - solid A graders, future stars
- Zorko, Beams, Hodge - A graders, but won't be around for our next window (Beams the youngest of them, 28 before next season. Zorko 29, Hodge 30-something).

Really hoping Berry continues through 2018. Looked great on the park this year. Clugga should grow into his game and be a great pickup too - hopefully with us.

You can look at it as glass half full and think that's amazing and all that. I think, realistically, that we have a good mix of players there, who should be able to help us up the ladder a bit. Backline key posts fairly well sorted for a decade there. Forward line, if Ballenden comes along, hopefully. Mids - not even close. Need to add a lot of players in there. That's OK, because we have number 1 this year, and a top 3 pick next year, and if we can start retaining players, then we may be in with something in the year or two following that.

The issue is though, we had the go home 5. Made changes, improved things. Traded for Beams - been OK, injuries hurt him, and the wrong age for our list - won't be part of a finals push. Lost Aish, made fixes, improved things. Now we've lost Schache. And the story about "oh, we've fixed our retention problems" starts to look like overly-optimistic rubbish. Aish was a one-off. So is Schache. Really hope Clugga re-signs, but at this stage, I'm hesitant to commit. By the look of it, so is he. You can see it on Bigfooty too - the number of times I've seen "12 for Cameron was OK. Pick 12 may have just walked after 2 years anyway". Seriously - we think we've fixed our issues, but we still half expect any draftee to head home at the end of his first contract. Subconsciously, we are already preparing for it.

It's not even our fault necessarily. Increasingly, top picks have grown up being told they'll be a star, and the precedent is there that if they would prefer to work near their family and friends, they can get it done by uttering one sentence. It's far too easy.

So we can keep turning 1st rounders into 2nd rounders, and then turning 2nd and 3rd rounders into solid B grade players (that's not an insult, every team needs a bunch of them, and no team can afford to have 10 A graders). But at this stage, yeah, I'm less optimistic about our future success. We have potential, but every fan rates their own team's list. Now we're overpaying for B-graders like Cameron and voluntarily trading out top 5 picks for scraps. And seriously - have a look at Noble's trades in Adelaide - he does that. He buys high and sells low. Some of them work out. Some don't.

So no, I don't view the glass as half full. I'm hopeful that a well coached team of B graders can make finals... eventually. But I've been burnt too many times to think we can get premiership glory under the current player contract rules. I just think there's too much stacked against us.

Well written. Reading that does make me feel a little depressed and then I correct myself and say: "that's spottthedog1's opinion, and he is entitled to that" just like anyone else. It does make me want me to ask 2 questions but:
1) Why follow the Lions when you have so much pain & scepticism in your assessment?
2) Wouldn't another team give you more enjoyment to follow & support rather than sticking with a side given that you believe they have "too much stacked against them"?