Analysis 2018 List Management discussion Part 1 (continued in Part 2 - see OP for link)

[ferrisb]

Hope Polson's side didn't lose the intra-club by 90 points.

That would be very bad. And very good.....

 

[Jimmae]

That's even more surprising. Fisher reminds me of a young Dale Thomas across half forward.

Will be a huge player for us.

Daisy had elite agility, acceleration, endurance and a better top speed. Fisher's no slouch, but he's a different kind of player.

I'll pay that. Seems to have righted that wrong now though.

Having a look at Fish's TOG numbers it's not terrible, pretty much 70% which is probably in the bracket of where most 1st year players participate, although he did spend a fair bit of time up forward so perhaps it should be higher.

Other younger player first year TOG for reference:

Jack 79%
Macreadie 76%
Weitering 75%
Willo 75%
Samo 73%
Cuningham 71%
Pickett 70%
Fisher 70%
McKay 69%
Marchbank 68%
Plowman 67%
Charlie 66%
Lamb 66%
Lang 61%
Kerridge 54%
Cripps 52%
Garlett 47%
Kennedy 45%
Docherty 33%

You'd think Fisher (and most of our younger guys) would have some targets/KPIs for this year like pushing up towards that 80-82% range. if you split the time equally between all team members it's about 82%. Typically you have a few with higher numbers at each end of the ground; we had Jones averaging 96%, Simpson 94%, Docherty 93%, Plowman 91%, Rowe 89%, Marchbank 88% & Casboult 88%. Then there's guys like Ed, Weitering, Kerridge & Gibbs at 85-86%.

Those guys who put out higher percentages drops the required average for the rest of the team down to about 77-78 which isn't much of a stretch for the 2nd-3rd year guys at all (if they're not already there).

Why are you comparing players who played under the sub system and players who suffered a long-term injury with last year's players?

Why are you comparing players who play predominantly midfield or key position roles with a guy who played high half-forward? Chalk and cheese.

The only comparable player is Pickett, and we were all disappointed in his fitness levels through the first 12 weeks of the season (and then some). Fisher had similar issues.

 

[CJMB]

Apparently Fish got BOG in an intra club this week or last.

Polson has some tidying up to do but club happy with signs he's showing, been exciting in the same intra clubs.

One of the themes this off/preseason has been Fisher being mentioned in interviews with players and staff. It's not out of the realms of possibility that he gets his average disposals from sub 12 up towards 20. Cripps went 9 to 24, Kennedy went 6 to 17, Oliver went 17 to 30...

 

[CJMB]

Why are you comparing players who played under the sub system and players who suffered a long-term injury with last year's players?

Why are you comparing players who play predominantly midfield or key position roles with a guy who played high half-forward? Chalk and cheese.

The only comparable player is Pickett, and we were all disappointed in his fitness levels through the first 12 weeks of the season (and then some). Fisher had similar issues.

Gotta admit I completely forgot about the sub rule! When was that abolished...2016?
I realise there's some differences between positions, pretty sure I mentioned it in there somewhere. Wasn't saying it was a perfect apples-apples comparison, just threw up some numbers for reference. Granted those sub games (not to mention games where players have left the field early due to injury) have really swung some of the percentages out of whack.

None the less, surely we can still look at other players and their improvement from 1st to 2nd year and make something out of that. Weitering, Curnow and Kennedy had improvements in the post sub era of around 15%, 25% and 55% respectively from 2016 to 2017. I don't see why Fisher can't get up from 70% to say 77%.

Not doubting any of the stuff you've said at all, just saying there's a possibility. If he admitted his diet and prep (or whatever it was) wasn't up to scratch in the leadup to last year that's probably an indication he's fixed it now (or at least on the right track).

 

[Jimmae]

Gotta admit I completely forgot about the sub rule! When was that abolished...2016?
I realise there's some differences between positions, pretty sure I mentioned it in there somewhere. Wasn't saying it was a perfect apples-apples comparison, just threw up some numbers for reference. Granted those sub games (not to mention games where players have left the field early due to injury) have really swung some of the percentages out of whack.

None the less, surely we can still look at other players and their improvement from 1st to 2nd year and make something out of that. Weitering, Curnow and Kennedy had improvements in the post sub era of around 15%, 25% and 55% respectively from 2016 to 2017. I don't see why Fisher can't get up from 70% to say 77%.

Not doubting any of the stuff you've said at all, just saying there's a possibility. If he admitted his diet and prep (or whatever it was) wasn't up to scratch in the leadup to last year that's probably an indication he's fixed it now (or at least on the right track).

Agree with your line of thinking, but Curnow had glandular fever and Kennedy had an LTI as well IIRC.

 

[Blue__Balls]

I wasn't referring to my comments when I said scroll up. Someone has taken info I've PM'ed them some time ago (on repeated request, similar to you and others here) and posted it. They've relayed it incorrectly, but you can read it for yourself.

Again...gone back a few pages and i've seen diddly-squat in terms of educated, considered analysis that somehow indicates Fisher is unlikely or potentially unable to build a tank.

Poor combine tests is the closest anyone has come, but it's clear that how a kid tests at the age of 17 is only partially relevant to their long term prospects. Having a high baseline for fitness and endurance gives some a natural advantage of course, but having a low baseline doesn't mean they can't improve. You've also alluded to their being more to it than this.

If you're getting frustrated by the constant questioning, copy + paste your thoughts somewhere easily accessible and dish them up when appropriate. Alternatively, keep vaguely alluding to Fisher's mystery deficiencies which nobody but you can see, and accept that, in the absence of any qualification, people will call you out on it.

 

[marleyblue]

That's even more surprising. Fisher reminds me of a young Dale Thomas across half forward.

Will be a huge player for us.

Hoping Fisher will turn into a Lachie Neale clone

 

[Foucault1989]

Again...gone back a few pages and i've seen diddly-squat in terms of educated, considered analysis that somehow indicates Fisher is unlikely or potentially unable to build a tank.

Poor combine tests is the closest anyone has come, but it's clear that how a kid tests at the age of 17 is only partially relevant to their long term prospects. Having a high baseline for fitness and endurance gives some a natural advantage of course, but having a low baseline doesn't mean they can't improve. You've also alluded to their being more to it than this.

If you're getting frustrated by the constant questioning, copy + paste your thoughts somewhere easily accessible and dish them up when appropriate. Alternatively, keep vaguely alluding to Fisher's mystery deficiencies which nobody but you can see, and accept that, in the absence of any qualification, people will call you out on it.

Don't even bother following up. Once he gets a fixed idea about a player he won't budge. There is no rhyme or reason and it is usually completely at odds with most other people's views. He doesn't rate Fisher and never has so he uses this so called lack of a tank to veil this. How you can make those kind of judgements on a first year player is beyond me.

 

[Jimmae]

Again...gone back a few pages and i've seen diddly-squat in terms of educated, considered analysis that somehow indicates Fisher is unlikely or potentially unable to build a tank.

Poor combine tests is the closest anyone has come, but it's clear that how a kid tests at the age of 17 is only partially relevant to their long term prospects. Having a high baseline for fitness and endurance gives some a natural advantage of course, but having a low baseline doesn't mean they can't improve. You've also alluded to their being more to it than this.

If you're getting frustrated by the constant questioning, copy + paste your thoughts somewhere easily accessible and dish them up when appropriate. Alternatively, keep vaguely alluding to Fisher's mystery deficiencies which nobody but you can see, and accept that, in the absence of any qualification, people will call you out on it.

===removed deleted post====

I haven't posted my thoughts here because for the most part it's nobody's business how people choose to live their life.

 

[Masqualero]

Apparently Fish got BOG in an intra club this week or last.

Polson has some tidying up to do but club happy with signs he's showing, been exciting in the same intra clubs.

Been a lot of talk about him recently, brings something unique doesn't he.

Do you know what role he was playing? Or just that he was BOG?

 

[katmanblue]

Some of your finest there bud

Like chocolate and cheese

On [device_name] using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[SkyhorseTamer]

Like. clockwork.

Got an issue you wish to elaborate on?

 

[Sector 7G]

Thing about Fisher is that despite not testing particularly well for endurance at the combine, he had shown that he could run out games in the midfield. Beep and 3km have both been dropped due to not being particularly good indicators of the running ability for AFL.

 

[HARKER]

Aaah Fisher.

I don't know what his past may be and maybe not even what his future may hold.
Did though love his work through his TAC year and the first glimpse I got of him last year, was him throwing his face onto the boot of a team-mate to smother the ball.......and he did this twice in the one minute. I mean that's far from enough but putting all the pieces together, I see him as becoming a very good player for us, if indeed his head is screwed on properly. Given we quickly re-contracted him until 2020, the club may feel it is.




All being well, we'll see plenty more of this. It's what he does.

 

[Jimmae]

Thing about Fisher is that despite not testing particularly well for endurance at the combine, he had shown that he could run out games in the midfield. Beep and 3km have both been dropped due to not being particularly good indicators of the running ability for AFL.

They've been traded for a variant of a variant of the beep test, and a 2km time trial.

And again, as many people have pointed out over the years, a good tank alone doesn't make for a good AFL midfielder, nor does a good first step alone. Nor do both combined make a great footballer: it's how it all comes together, but Fisher is up against it to be a full-time midfielder.

Whether we have a long-term player is a different question. I'm much happier with where Fisher is at compared to last year, even accounting for the impact another pre-season has on a player.

 

[Aphrodite]

===removed deleted post====

I haven't posted my thoughts here because for the most part it's nobody's business how people choose to live their life.

Let's just leave it at that and time to move on.

Thread has been cleaned up!

 

[Jimmae]

No offence but can you try not to be a hypocrite. Sprouting about not putting fishers personal life on this forum like he’s got issues. Alluding to things you actually don’t know much about and on top of all that you’re seemingly the only one then using whatever scraps of information about a young kids personal life to paint a definite picture and put a ceiling on him. Call him on ‘his pattern of behaviour’ when it actually is an issue because as far as any of us know it’s not even an issue at all now he’s in a professional environment nor was it before back in WA.

WA Football have a pretty robust nutrition program for their junior program compared to the other states, including tracking apps. Take a look at what happened to Patmore in the space of 3 months.

 

[Sector 7G]

They've been traded for a variant of a variant of the beep test, and a 2km time trial.

And again, as many people have pointed out over the years, a good tank alone doesn't make for a good AFL midfielder, nor does a good first step alone. Nor do both combined make a great footballer. It's how it all comes together, but Fisher is up against it to be a full-time midfielder.

Whether we have a long-term player is a different question. I'm much happier with where Fisher is at compared to last year, even accounting for the impact another pre-season has on a player.

And we don't have the results of the more relevant testing so my point is valid, Beep and 3km are not the best methods of judging fitness for AFL Players and that is why they have been replaced.

The issue is Fisher is tracking where he should for a player selected where he was in the draft - showing something. We are too used to our 2nd rounders being busts to have expectations for them.

While his size presents challenges as a midfielder and won't be able to carry a midfield like PC, he showed the quick hands in close, is hard to tackle legally and can burst from a stoppage.

 

[SkyhorseTamer]

WA Football have a pretty robust nutrition program for their junior program compared to the other states, including tracking apps. Take a look at what happened to Patmore in the space of 3 months.

Referring to jake patmore and his loss of weight?

I’ll have to look that up.

 

[Arr0w]

WA Football have a pretty robust nutrition program for their junior program compared to the other states, including tracking apps. Take a look at what happened to Patmore in the space of 3 months.

It is not exclusive to WA

And by the way, different individuals, have different metabolisms. If you are eluding to Fisher indulging once in a while, prior to being drafted, the queue would be long

 

[Jimmae]

It is not exclusive to WA

I'd say they were pretty clued-in based on my own knowledge and their performance relative to the rest of the state teams last year.

And by the way, different individuals, have different metabolisms.

That they do, but we're talking about numerous biological systems that interact in very complex ways, which in turn can be affected by the outside environment (including what you ingest).

 

[Jimmae]

Referring to jake patmore and his loss of weight?

I’ll have to look that up.

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2017-07-...am-taylor-face-up-to-growing-pressure/8694026

http://www.afl.com.au/news/2017-09-21/draft-hopeful-patmore-sheds-10kgs-after-frank-advice

Reads like they got sick of non-adherence when there are free apps like MyFitnessPal.

 

[Arr0w]

I'd say they were pretty clued-in based on my own knowledge and their performance relative to the rest of the state teams last year.


That they do, but we're talking about numerous biological systems that interact in very complex ways, which in turn can be affected by the outside environment (including what you ingest).

And from my own knowledge, SA and VIC programs are just as "clued-in" as the WA programs

"(including what you ingest)", You continue to insinuate that Fisher is doing something untoward. If the club had any real concerns, he would be shown the door, or at the very least banished, IE "Bennell, De Goey.

I respect that you may want to keep sources/information confidential, if that is the case, perhaps not mentioning it at all would be more advisable

 

[Arr0w]

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2017-07-...am-taylor-face-up-to-growing-pressure/8694026

http://www.afl.com.au/news/2017-09-21/draft-hopeful-patmore-sheds-10kgs-after-frank-advice

Reads like they got sick of non-adherence when there are free apps like MyFitnessPal.

That App has been around for a few years now, nothing new there

As for Patmore:

"We had a word to him. We just said 'whether you're fair dinkum or not, it’s up to you how far you want to go'. I queried him on his skinfolds because I said 'at AFL level mate you wouldn't get a go'. To his credit the kid - over six or seven weeks - just went bang and lost all this weight."

That has nothing to do with an APP or new innovative programs, just all about a change of mindset.

 

[Jimmae]

And from my own knowledge, SA and VIC programs are just as "clued-in" as the WA programs

"(including what you ingest)", You continue to insinuate that Fisher is doing something untoward. If the club had any real concerns, he would be shown the door, or at the very least banished, IE "Bennell, De Goey.

I respect that you may want to keep sources/information confidential, if that is the case, perhaps not mentioning it at all would be more advisable

That's not my intent at all.

That App has been around for a few years now, nothing new there

As for Patmore:

"We had a word to him. We just said 'whether you're fair dinkum or not, it’s up to you how far you want to go'. I queried him on his skinfolds because I said 'at AFL level mate you wouldn't get a go'. To his credit the kid - over six or seven weeks - just went bang and lost all this weight."

That has nothing to do with an APP or new innovative programs, just all about a change of mindset.

Which the app helps with immensely because it's there when they need it.