Analysis 2018 List Management discussion Pt 2

[DangerousD]

Yeah cause the afl & aflpa don’t care about salary cap or players getting screwed over....

No salary cap is getting breached and no player is getting screwed over, the only thing that has happened in this drawn out scenario is that GWS make us trade for Shiel orather than taking the compo.

 

[DangerousD]

This just won't happen though. Clubs aren't stupid enough to take the risk.

To get a FA, you offer overs in contract cost because the trade cost is zero. The only exception so far is Dangerfield to Geelong, where he went for under market value, so of course Adelaide could match. It didn't get to that point, they organised a trade beforehand. But clubs can't afford to trade for a player that they've made a FA contract offer to, because the total cost instantly increases dramatically.

The quickest way for a club to **** their list is to over-pay a FA who wants to leave because they were bluffing about matching his deal.

We are completely on the same page in regards to paragraphs 2 and 3 but I have a more cynical view of the AFL and them doing what they want to get the result they want. I might be stupid on this one but I don’t see a risk from the Giants perspective, I think they know he will leave regardless.

We will see in good time, I will be interested to see how the AFL handle Lynch leaving if he does, that might give us an indication of how they will handle a high profile name leaving the Giants.

 

[DangerousD]

Who?

Answer - Ken Woods (AFL) will review their TPP and determine if there is cap space or not.

Sure, if you think they are going to get a guy to do that in a matter of days, and let’s say he comes back saying there isn’t enough space for that offer, then the Giants are well within their rights to say, there will be after the trade period as they can trade out high earners, they can delist, they can restructure payments, they can salary dump some players.

I don’t think it’s hard.

 

[Red Bull]

Feel we simply must support Cripps next season with some experienced class in the midfield ... no ifs ... no buts.
If Shiel wants to come home to Victoria and more specifically Carlton , he fits the bill perfectly.
The clubs desired age , class and experience , he together with Dow supplies the explosion from the contest and both can play inside and out whilst complimenting Cripps/Kennedy as the inside bulls supplying SPS , Fisher and O'Brien on the outside.
In a perfect world we'd like to wait until the following year and attempt to snare him as a FA but as has been well covered by many here , the AFL jungle is far from that world for the 18th placed team.
Our 2019 1st rounder would be around the mark but i fear GWS will want to bring our 2018 1st into play for their still contracted player.
So as has been suggested , our 1st (1) for Shiel and their 1st (9) .
Pick 9 could well land Ian Hill , a very classy , pacy and dynamic small forward/mid that the team is crying out for.
Pick 1 this year sounds like Luk , but we have invested heavily in Curnow and McKay so should back them in now with Kerr , DeKonning and the Silvagni brothers in support.
Shiel and Hill types are at the top of our shopping list and pick 1 this year can facilitate them.
Sloane and Gaff remain available as FA's and we hold 2 nice 2nd rounders to fill in the gaps.

 

[Stamos]

Sure, if you think they are going to get a guy to do that in a matter of days, and let’s say he comes back saying there isn’t enough space for that offer, then the Giants are well within their rights to say, there will be after the trade period as they can trade out high earners, they can delist, they can restructure payments, they can salary dump some players.

I don’t think it’s hard.

Like I said, the best way to **** your list. Means they are forced to sell players, maybe players who actually want to stay. The club is forced into a position they don't want to be in because they tried to bluff?

You're ignoring all the work that goes into these offers before they are made, hence only two FAs have been traded for, Dangerfield who didn't even get to FA offer stage because the trade was worked out, and Port traded for someone as to not diminish their compensation.

 

[Carl]

Why do people want to go back to the OLD Carlton way? It hasn't worked for the last 20 years. Keep drafting the best young talent available until we are a genuine top 8 side.

Why are people so worried about Cripps? It doesn't matter who we recruit he is going to play the same way. He's an inside midfielder who plays his best footy in the midfield.

 

[Stamos]

Why do people want to go back to the OLD Carlton way? It hasn't worked for the last 20 years. Keep drafting the best young talent available until we are a genuine top 8 side.

Why are people so worried about Cripps? It doesn't matter who we recruit he is going to play the same way. He's an inside midfielder who plays his best footy in the midfield.

Our list is unbalanced. Trading for more senior players isn't 'the old Carlton way', it's exactly what the club has forecast as their plan.

Cripps career will probably be shortened if he has to attend every centre bounce, and is the sole focus of the oppositions defensive midfield. And he might just get jack of doing it all himself with no support in a bottom side.

 

[BoltonsBlues]

Not sure how. But i think we are dead set certin to secure will brodie

 

[HereComesJuddy]

Not sure how. But i think we are dead set certin to secure will brodie

Great addition

 

[RudyBlue]

Great addition

Been underwhelming so far

 

[HereComesJuddy]

Been underwhelming so far

And injured

 

[HereComesJuddy]

He is a bull. He, kennedy, Dow and Cripps. If brodie and Kennedy come on. Good luck competition

 

[BlueRenaissance]

Why are people so worried about Cripps? It doesn't matter who we recruit he is going to play the same way. He's an inside midfielder who plays his best footy in the midfield.

Because Judd was also a legend but finished his career earlier than we hoped. Similarities of busting your body under a pile of opposition players each week.

Cripps is also a decent fwd option as his marking has improved. We want to rotate him fwd more to ensure he plays an extra year or two.

 

[ItsAllAboutMe]

Going to have to agree to disagree on this one, GWS would obviously tell the AFL they can match and they are under no obligations to prove otherwise. Salary caps are year by year prospect and players can be traded to free up cap space.

If Shiel decided to stay then GWS have to pay him his contract amount then they would find a way by letting some players go, but Shiel won’t stay so they are safe.

Last point on this. The AFL massage and manipulate every situation they can to get the outcome they want. Melbourne getting pick 3 for Frawley, Geelong getting pick 19 or so for Motlop and funny enough it ends up at GC, Dusty getting off for an umpire shove that only weeks before was a suspension.

The AFL will make sure the Suns and the Giants won’t lose any key players for a pittance.

Perhaps this is where the priority pick comes in... or band 1 compo for Murphy...

 

[ItsAllAboutMe]

Not sure how. But i think we are dead set certin to secure will brodie

Doesn’t excite me much at all, a draft slider who has battled to get games in a very poor Gold Coast team. We have enough former top 10 picks with potential.. what we need is proven players who have shown they are AFL standard

 

[therubbernub]

Hey, we suckered Judd into joining a team which, in its very peak game, featured Armfield, Davies, Duigan, Ellard, Joseph, Laidler, OhAilpin, Thornton and Warnock.

Anything is possible!

shhhh!

 

[therubbernub]

Their time is gone.

wot the dynasty is finished? Tell me more gov .

 

[Blue_Fusion]

Why do people want to go back to the OLD Carlton way? It hasn't worked for the last 20 years. Keep drafting the best young talent available until we are a genuine top 8 side.

Why are people so worried about Cripps? It doesn't matter who we recruit he is going to play the same way. He's an inside midfielder who plays his best footy in the midfield.

I agree with most of what you've said but just on Cripps, the worry is he doesn't have enough senior support so opposition mids gang up on him. I very much doubt he'll change his style of play.

 

[rog1995]

I agree with most of what you've said but just on Cripps, the worry is he doesn't have enough senior support so opposition mids gang up on him. I very much doubt he'll change his style of play.

Hit the draft again this year and target free agency next year..2020 is the year we push for finals.. Not good list management getting a Shiel now for a first rounder when in twelve months we can have him or Kelly for nothing.

 

[Blue_Fusion]

Hit the draft again this year and target free agency next year..2020 is the year we push for finals.. Not good list management getting a Shiel now for a first rounder when in twelve months we can have him or Kelly for nothing.

Mate I'm with you on that, have a look at my recent posts in this thread.

Just saying that's the reason why people want Shiel playing for us sooner rather than later.

 

[cookie monster]

Why do people want to go back to the OLD Carlton way? It hasn't worked for the last 20 years. Keep drafting the best young talent available until we are a genuine top 8 side.

Why are people so worried about Cripps? It doesn't matter who we recruit he is going to play the same way. He's an inside midfielder who plays his best footy in the midfield.

Because we need quality, driven senior players around our youth, before we screw their development and teach them bad habits

 

[ShanDog]

This is easily offset by a relocation fee, lets call it $100k is added to your first year salary to cover relocation costs that can be outside of the salary cap.

Just for some perspective, I'd like to point out that ADF personnel get shifted around consistently - far more than an AFL footballer ever will in their careers. Footballers earn plenty and should be expected to move to where their work is going to be. For athletes playing such a hard game....

 

[HARKER]

We talk about this player and that trade and pick # this and pick # that and all that is important and it pains me to say this, but give us the spirit Richmond is playing with and enjoying themselves in, over any player.

I'm somewhat confident in saying that Richmond had a good mix at board and executive levels but Balme was the missing piece in their puzzle.
I know that's not talking about the List management we know, but it is about managing the components within that list.

Not sure who our next Football Manager will be, but I'd love him to have the temperament, empathy and the understanding of a Balme and know how to placate what can be a tough environment to reside in.

 

[jd2010]

Just because a team matches doesn’t mean the player stays. GWS can match which then forces Carlton in to a trade or Shiel in to the draft. They only have to afford him if he decides to stay.

Massive flaws in the rules if a club can make an offer they can't actually afford just to force a trade

 

[Doro]

We talk about this player and that trade and pick # this and pick # that and all that is important and it pains me to say this, but give us the spirit Richmond is playing with and enjoying themselves in, over any player.

I'm somewhat confident in saying that Richmond had a good mix at board and executive levels but Balme was the missing piece in their puzzle.
I know that's not talking about the List management we know, but it is about managing the components within that list.

Not sure who our next Football Manager will be, but I'd love him to have the temperament, empathy and the understanding of a Balme and know how to placate what can be a tough environment to reside in.

Balme is 66 years old now, so won't be on our shopping list. As long as there is due process undertaken in the search, we can't expect much more than that as supporters. The Richmond spirit began snowballing with winning, which we aren't currently placed to expect much of. Resilience is more important for the time being until the list matures.