List Mgmt. 2019 Draft/Trade/FA Thread - Final Wrap

[Cochblocked]

When do we hear about the concessions? I think grand final week has been said but do we know what day? Maybe the day of the Brownlow?

 

[eppo67]

You don't see any benefit in having picks to match Budarick with? Noting that pick 54 may not be enough to match him with if he's bid inside the first 35?


That seems a little strong. He isn't wrong that many players with talent failed to develop and that the Suns had a weak list this year. Nor was he alone in suggesting they had the weakest list in the past 20 years. Not sure how that adds up to "despises the Suns" when you consider there are dozens of media figures and BF posters that literally don't want the Suns to exist.

Suns were flying before they were decimated with injury. The only reason Lions finished where you did (which l'm happy for the Club BTW) was that you had virtually the best injury run of all time. I've never seen anything like your run with injuries this year. Best 22 all year expect when Robertson went down. Take 6 to 8 of your best 22 including all your first pick key backmen out for 90‰ and your season would have been vastly different don't kid yourself.

 

[exile]

chris masten confirmed departing the eagles to pursue other opportunities. i reckon we'll have a crack at him!

 

[Peel67skin]

Suns were flying before they were decimated with injury. The only reason Lions finished where you did (which l'm happy for the Club BTW) was that you had virtually the best injury run of all time. I've never seen anything like your run with injuries this year. Best 22 all year expect when Robertson went down. Take 6 to 8 of your best 22 including all your first pick key backmen out for 90‰ and your season would have been vastly different don't kid yourself.

If O meara, Prestia, Martin, Ablett and Bennell don't get injuries at the wrong time I think GCS would have make the top 8 by now.

 

[Peel67skin]

chris masten confirmed departing the eagles to pursue other opportunities. i reckon we'll have a crack at him!

Love his tattoos. Look tough.

 

[Supersuns]

chris masten confirmed departing the eagles to pursue other opportunities. i reckon we'll have a crack at him!

Ehhh I hate the idea of Brandon Ellis but I’d prefer him over footsteps Masten. The actual softest player in the AFL

 

[gcsunsfc]

chris masten confirmed departing the eagles to pursue other opportunities. i reckon we'll have a crack at him!

Hm.. you excited about this.
Even if we're paying minimum wage.. I'm not sure I am.
Despite his deficiencies, much rather Ellis.

 

[Johnny Bananas]

Suns were flying before they were decimated with injury. The only reason Lions finished where you did (which l'm happy for the Club BTW) was that you had virtually the best injury run of all time. I've never seen anything like your run with injuries this year. Best 22 all year expect when Robertson went down. Take 6 to 8 of your best 22 including all your first pick key backmen out for 90‰ and your season would have been vastly different don't kid yourself.

I don't dispute that, I can assure you I'm not kidding myself. But the point at hand is that not rating the Suns' list going into the year doesn't mean someone "despises" the club. There's no doubt the Suns were playing well to begin the year, but many teams start well only to fall away over the year even without a large injury list.

 

[kane249]

chris masten confirmed departing the eagles to pursue other opportunities. i reckon we'll have a crack at him!

There was rumours you guys have offered him a 2 year deal as opposed to the 1 we were offering. All the best to him if true, he's a hard trainer and good club man so can still be an asset to your club off field.

 

[gcsunsfc]

I don't dispute that, I can assure you I'm not kidding myself. But the point at hand is that not rating the Suns' list going into the year doesn't mean someone "despises" the club. There's no doubt the Suns were playing well to begin the year, but many teams start well only to fall away over the year even without a large injury list.

There is a difference between not rating the list and saying "worst list in history, won't win a game"
Maybe despises wasn't the word I was looking for. Certainly a level of contempt from him toward us.

 

[Johnny Bananas]

Hey Knightmare, do you really have contempt towards the Suns? I didn't believe that rating a list as being poor meant that one bears animosity towards a club, but I don't want to put words in your mouth, please do clarify.

 

[kreglze]

Masten is much maligned but would be better pick ups than the likes of Horlin Smith and Murdoch.

Very fit individual and according to West Coast supporters, played a defensive winger role.

Wouldn't mind him, though at the same time I wouldn't get out the celebrations if he turned up.

 

[gcsunsfc]

He can say all he wants
I'm not basing this on one phrase.
Thats how his writing comes across to me and clearly I'm not the only Suns fan who feels the same.
I see you liked half of his posts Johhny talking about how terrible ur club is for "his" beloved juniors.


"I don't want to see Lukosius and Rankine's talent wasted as so many have been at the suns"
"Lukosius doesn't the suns 2020 pick 1. Rankine + Lukosius together might get 2020 pick 1 and a sweetener"
"I was expecting floggings every single week"
"You can count on one hand Lynch, May, Miller as the only guys who have ever exceeded expectations at the suns"

To be fair early on this season he wrote a few good things when we won a few games. Ship turned pretty quickly though.
Does the assessment really come down to wins and losses?

I'd say a number of young Suns improved this year despite our lowly finish.
No doubt we want to be seeing Ainsworths, Bowes, Florins etc.. etc.. becoming legit top 100 players rather than just decent young players but think we had a number of positives this year.

 

[exile]

Ehhh I hate the idea of Brandon Ellis but I’d prefer him over footsteps Masten. The actual softest player in the AFL

i'd rather have 2 years of chris masten than the rumoured 5 years of brandon ellis. 5 years is a long contract for a guy playing in the midfield/wing, especially when we're potentially drafting top midfielders like rowell & anderson. 2 years vs 5 years of potentially keeping another young mid from getting game time and seeking games elsewhere? in terms of output ellis probably offers more, but perhaps long term a shorter contract might be more appealing. i don't know, i'm just worried about the suns offering massive contracts to fringe players.

 

[gcsunsfc]

i'd rather have 2 years of chris masten than the rumoured 5 years of brandon ellis. 5 years is a long contract for a guy playing in the midfield/wing, especially when we're potentially drafting top midfielders like rowell & anderson. 2 years vs 5 years of potentially keeping another young mid from getting game time and seeking games elsewhere? in terms of output ellis probably offers more, but perhaps long term a shorter contract might be more appealing. i don't know, i'm just worried about the suns offering massive contracts to fringe players.

good point

 

[eppo67]

I don't dispute that, I can assure you I'm not kidding myself. But the point at hand is that not rating the Suns' list going into the year doesn't mean someone "despises" the club. There's no doubt the Suns were playing well to begin the year, but many teams start well only to fall away over the year even without a large injury list.

Sorry my point is that the best 22 was far from the worst list ever that was Victorian VFL media BS

 

[Supersuns]

According to AFL.com our interest in Masten has cooled

 

[OB11]

You don't see any benefit in having picks to match Budarick with? Noting that pick 54 may not be enough to match him with if he's bid inside the first 35?


That seems a little strong. He isn't wrong that many players with talent failed to develop and that the Suns had a weak list this year. Nor was he alone in suggesting they had the weakest list in the past 20 years. Not sure how that adds up to "despises the Suns" when you consider there are dozens of media figures and BF posters that literally don't want the Suns to exist.

He said that Lukosius should leave the Sun's as soon as possible so he can play for a team with a more suited uncontested style that suits him.

 

[NOBBYS]

According to AFL.com our interest in Masten has cooled

That's good news.
has had a very poor season in a top side.

 

[Knightmare]

Hey Knightmare, do you really have contempt towards the Suns? I didn't believe that rating a list as being poor meant that one bears animosity towards a club, but I don't want to put words in your mouth, please do clarify.

I say things as I see them. Name a club, and I'll tell you what they do well, what they do poorly.

With Gold Coast this year's bottom club, from a draft context Gold Coast are the most interesting point of discussion. Just as Carlton were last year who I criticised harshly for their poorly balanced list which still contains a disproportionate number of key position players. And with Gold Coast being this year's bottom side, as with Carlton last year, mindsets towards Gold Coast need to be directed towards how things can be turned around which is the focus of my piece.

As outlined in my piece. My view is Gold Coast's drafting has not been poor. Some of the players drafted at the time of getting drafted I felt were reaches (Leslie, Ah Chee and Powell - though Powell is exceeding expectation and can be a long term piece if he keeps developing), but a lot of other selections I've felt were strong choices at the time. That viewpoint to me that Gold Coast's drafting hasn't been the problem can be confirmed through the promise a lot of Gold Coast's players showed early days. Trent McKenzie, Zac Smith, Harley Bennell, David Swallow, Peter Wright, Rory Thompson, Matt Shaw, Brandon Matera, Maverick Weller, Luke Russell. None of those guys play anywhere near like how they projected initially. With that noted, it is clear that Gold Coast's problem has been in player development. And as I also note, injuries and loosing players to other clubs have been further issues which in combination with lacking player development has led to Gold Coast's list being in the state it presently is in.

What I highlighted as being Gold Coast's missing component in that player development puzzle is veteran leadership. Recruiters are picking talent fine, Stewart Dew I believe to be a capable coach and if he's comfortable with the staff he has around him then I'd be persisting.

In talking to recruiters, and I've spoken to some senior Gold Coast recruiters this season, it's a foreign concept and not well understood. The most successful clubs these past 15 years. Geelong - led by Tom Harley/Cameron Ling/Joel Selwood as among the best leaders in the competition. Then having that tier down with the likes of Matthew Scarlett, Darren Milburn, Jimmy Bartel, Andrew Mackie, James Kelly, Corey Enright, Harry Taylor. Adding Patrick Dangerfield more recently and developing leaders in Mark Blicavs, Mitch Duncan and Tom Stewart more recently. That's the foundation of how you build a winning team and a team that remains good for a long time.

Same story with Hawthorn. They've had Hodge. But it's not just Hodge. Sam Mitchell, Shaun Burgoyne, Shane Crawford, Richard Vandenberg, Jordan Lewis, Jarryd Roughead, Ben Stratton, Josh Gibson and Isaac Smith.

Collingwood have had Nathan Buckley, Scott Burns, Nick Maxwell, Scott Pendlebury and Luke Ball lead the way for Collingwood. Developing Sidebottom over time, adding Adams, Howe and Dunn.

Sydney much renowned for their culture have been highly successful for a long time, only now for the first time since 2009 experiencing growing pains now that they've turned over a large proportion of their list and need to regenerate more talent. And they despite suddenly going really young this year, they finished with a higher % than Essendon and can rebound in a hurry.

The opposite to this is looking at the bad teams we've seen during those years.

Look at the struggling Demons before Paul Roos. Look at Carlton before Chris Judd. Look at Richmond before they started trading for opposition players who represented value on opposition lists and started to add to their bank of experience. What about Brisbane before the addition of Luke Hodge. The consistent theme with each club has been a lack of veteran leadership and the clubs during those years continued year after year to shred more games worth of experience and more veteran leadership, only to find themselves going around in a rebuilding loop. Gold Coast are currently experiencing that with good players year on year leaving. It's a rebuilding loop where experience leave to move onto winners and youth doesn't develop enough to help a team become relevant.

Melbourne try using Jack Grimes and Jack Trengove as captains. That ruined both of their careers and got Melbourne nowhere.

Those teams had so many early first round picks, yet you'd see the likes of Geelong, Collingwood and Adelaide take guys later in the first round who would develop past those first guys taken. It all comes back to veteran leadership. It develops your youth and establishes your culture and expectations.

For those familiar with my writing over the past 10 years, the thing I've been consistent on in my analysis pertaining to all clubs has been in my views on veteran leadership. And to anyone who follows the NBA, sees all the veterans on good teams, and critically assesses the impact on the development of youth on those teams they are on v the lack of development of youth on those teams with little or no veteran experience, and the results are clear as day.

It's a lesson I very much hope Gold Coast take on.

For those wanting more depth and inside insight on the topic of veteran leadership and how it helps develop players and develop a culture. This piece by Alex Witherden will open eyes: https://www.playersvoice.com.au/alex-witherden-how-hodgey-changed-club/

 

[Peel67skin]

I would love Sydney pair Josh Kennedy and Parker to Come in.Brisbane first round should be enough with some third and 4 round back for state league players.

 

[Knightmare]

I would love Sydney pair Josh Kennedy and Parker to Come in.Brisbane first round should be enough with some third and 4 round back for state league players.

Kennedy and Parker would be great gets from a leadership perspective. Gold Coast have a lot of slower mids (and would do well to get rid of a few existing depth ones), but getting experienced guys like that with leadership credentials who have been a part of successful teams with strong cultures. It's invaluable for a young team and getting the most out of the club's youth.

 

[sunsofanarchy]

Sam Murray would be a good replacement for Ah Chee

On SM-G960W using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[Scotty_222]

Sam Murray would be a good replacement for Ah Chee

On SM-G960W using BigFooty.com mobile app

Bring that coke culture back? I’m not sure that’s on the cards

 

[Deleted member 2402071]

Latest trade news from HUN...

No Cookies | Herald Sun

No Cookies

www.heraldsun.com.au

GRANT BIRCHALL (HAW)
Alastair Clarkson is still pushing to keep the popular back flanker for one more season, but it’s not a one-way discussion. If the Hawks pass, Brisbane or Gold Coast would surely snap him up. He’d replace Luke Hodge at the Lions and the planned Shaun Burgoyne move at the Suns.

EDDIE BETTS (ADEL)
Would prefer to play for Carlton ahead of Gold Coast, but Betts is down in the Blues’ list of priorities. Jack Martin is inbound, while Carlton believes Sydney will relent on goalsneak Tom Papley.

JACK MARTIN (GCS)
Has told Carlton he wants to play for them. Now, to get the deal done. Blues would want to give up a second-rounder and the Suns want a first-rounder. Carlton has picks 8 (likely needed for Tom Papley) and then pick 39. Surely wouldn’t give away a future first-rounder. Will get done late.

CALLUM AH CHEE (GCS)
The No. 8 draft pick will go to Brisbane on a long-term deal for a later pick, another setback for the Suns given their initial investment and hard work as he battled off-field issues.

BRANDON ELLIS (RICH)
Gold Coast loves his precision disposal and touch of class and is prepared to forgive the occasional lack of robustness in the contest. Would offer five years given he’s already played 174 games and has only just turned 26. Does a five-year deal on big dollars give Richmond any chance of a first-round compo pick, which would eventually fall at around pick 20?

HUGH GREENWOOD (ADEL)
Wants three years and a games-based trigger. Adelaide won’t give it, having offered two years, and to be honest, doubts he can get it elsewhere. So if Adelaide don’t relent before the trade period starts, he will explore his options with Hawthorn, St Kilda, Gold Coast and Brisbane. Would be a beautiful fit for the Hawks given his versatility.