Discussion 2019 General AFL Discussion

[VDS66]

Why is it okay to show sympathy for Goodes but it's not okay to show sympathy for the child? Do you not think Goodes is at some fault in any way here? That's all I was irked about. Goodes did nothing wrong or couldn't have handled himself any better, and the child is completely to blame. I think it's much more than just that. If people were racists they would be booing every indigenous player regardless if they were calling out racism or not. That's not the definition of racism. A lot of the people booing Goodes aren't racist. They simply hold the same views as I do.

At 13 years of age, that puts her in year 7 or 8.

Mate, right through primary school and secondary schools there are constant education programs regarding bullying, racism and other social issues.

So I put it to you that she would have been well aware of what she was saying. Probably egged on by her parents.

Victim? I doubt that very much.

 

[joop]

yeah we will have a lot of work to do with racism in this country

Unfortunately when someone of colour is called an ape, calls the person out for it and is then slammed for not ‘acting appropriately’ just shows how backwards this country is.
Racism is a step below stupidity, and hopefully it’s called out every single time.
I couldn’t care less the girl was 13. Goodes didn’t know she was that young, nor did he then put her face on any tv screen or in any newspapers, the media did that. He was actually quite sympathetic towards her.
Anyone with half a brain can see he acted in the heat of the moment and would’ve called out the person regardless of sex, age, colour, whatever.
Unbelievable someone can be racially vilified and then chastised for it.

 

[Crusty Undies]

thats quite easy to answer ... because of the 70 other indig players he was the one to stand out front and point it out...
im reminded of the comments of a black comedian (his name escapes me) but he summed up the passive racisim perfectly in the world we live in (ill use the words he used) "white people accept the N***er now days, they love the N***er provided the N***er is a quiet N***er... they dont like no N***er who makes them think, they dont like no N***er who asks for more ... a N***er who wants to be white thats the shit none of this proud N***er bullshit they dont want that....."

No. It's because none of the other 70 players decided to make a point of racism after a 15 odd year career by highlighting a pre-pubescent girl in the front row at the footy where everyone is experiencing adrenaline and heightened emotions.

 

[George]

At 13 years of age, that puts her in year 7 or 8.

Mate, right through primary school and secondary schools there are constant education programs regarding bullying, racism and other social issues.

So I put it to you that she would have been well aware of what she was saying. Probably egged on by her parents.

Victim? I doubt that very much.

Who said she was the victim?

 

[Crusty Undies]

At 13 years of age, that puts her in year 7 or 8.

Mate, right through primary school and secondary schools there are constant education programs regarding bullying, racism and other social issues.

So I put it to you that she would have been well aware of what she was saying. Probably egged on by her parents.

Victim? I doubt that very much.

People's brains don't fully develop until they're well into their 20s and we don't hold people legally responsible for most things until they're 18. There's a reason for that. It's because the last parts of your brain to develop are the parts controlling higher function like reasoning, compassion, empathy and rationality. Are you saying we should publicly name and shame; on a national level, every high school bully because they've been taught not to bully so they should know better? Assuming you aren't, I don't see how it's different for a 13 year old girl just because she said something outside of the schoolyard.

 

[Crusty Undies]

Unfortunately when someone of colour is called an ape, calls the person out for it and is then slammed for not ‘acting appropriately’ just shows how backwards this country is.
Racism is a step below stupidity, and hopefully it’s called out every single time.
I couldn’t care less the girl was 13. Goodes didn’t know she was that young, nor did he then put her face on any tv screen or in any newspapers, the media did that. He was actually quite sympathetic towards her.
Anyone with half a brain can see he acted in the heat of the moment and would’ve called out the person regardless of sex, age, colour, whatever.
Unbelievable someone can be racially vilified and then chastised for it.

Chastised for his reaction to it. Why are you excusing him for acting in the heat of the moment but not the girl? She obviously said something racist and that isn't ok but what we're saying is that the 13 year old girl sitting in the front row of the footy isn't the root cause of racism in any given situation, especially with the adrenaline and heightened emotions that comes along with going to the footy. So why should she have been the face of racism in Australia? People booed Goodes because he acted just as poorly after what happened to him as the girl who called him an ape did.

 

[Cornish]

We need and Adam Goodes thread, this is going around and around in circles.

I didn't like the guy as a footballer, i was told i must be a racist, until my mate pulled said person up
and said that i have a lot of indigenous friends, i never said another word, but the look on the woman who called me racist was priceless.

 

[austinnn]

Can the Adam Goodes stuff be moved somewhere else?

I came here for the general AFL discussion, not a reboot of the endless polemic judgement of Adam Goodes, once was enough for me. Pages and pages of it, and all posters' views identical to the first time indicates no one will be convincing anyone.

 

[MOLTEN GANGLANDS]

Chastised for his reaction to it. Why are you excusing him for acting in the heat of the moment but not the girl? She obviously said something racist and that isn't ok but what we're saying is that the 13 year old girl sitting in the front row of the footy isn't the root cause of racism in any given situation, especially with the adrenaline and heightened emotions that comes along with going to the footy. So why should she have been the face of racism in Australia? People booed Goodes because he acted just as poorly after what happened to him as the girl who called him an ape did.

she learnt her lesson, it was a hard way no doubt, but an important lesson to learn. Would she have learnt it if Goodes didn't call her out? From memory her parents weren't much better so I'd say not, at least in her home life.

Life isn't perfect, the situation wasn't perfect, but I think Goodes handled it pretty well under the circumstances, given he was acting not just for himself, but on behalf of all indigenous Australians.

The girl didn't die, she'll be better for it, and so will the rest of Australia. Interview her in ten years and I bet she'll be thankful Goodes called her out and forced her to look at her behaviour sooner rather than later, because obviously no one else was doing that for her.

 

[StCicatriz]

Why is it okay to show sympathy for Goodes but it's not okay to show sympathy for the child? Do you not think Goodes is at some fault in any way here? That's all I was irked about. Goodes did nothing wrong or couldn't have handled himself any better, and the child is completely to blame. I think it's much more than just that. If people were racists they would be booing every indigenous player regardless if they were calling out racism or not. That's not the definition of racism. A lot of the people booing Goodes aren't racist. They simply hold the same views as I do.

at 13, she needs to take some responsibility for what she said. she is old enough to know better but she's also at an age where you do a lot of stupid shit that's not necessarily you as a person. you are still learning and being shaped into what you will be as an adult. nor do you have the full capability to understand what your actions mean. she also may have been brought up in an environment where racism just occurred daily. she may have not known any better. to say her life has been ruined is a bit much. yes it's incredibly hard but her life has not been ruined.

i don't think its fair to say Goodes should have reacted better and to put this at his feet. i think its unfair to assume he knew she was a child. nor is it fair to just say well he should have done better. its incredibly unfair. i think his reaction was ok considering what had just been said to him. i think he spoke very well the next day. he summed it up perfectly. instead of listening to that and listening to what he had to say, we decided to boo him out of the game instead. as you said you were glad he left.

i feel sorry for her that she was put across tv like that, but it was her actions that made that happen. i feel sorry for Goodes that he was put in that position by her. I feel sorry for him that he tried to do the right thing being the spokes person for his people and highlighting how racism affects them on a daily basis, only for him to then be harshly judged by the public.

here's an alternative look at it. why hasn't the broadcaster been questioned here. they had the time and ability to really narrow in on the issue, should they have played it? maybe but should they have blanked out her face? i think so. they were in the box seat with the footage and time. Goodes wasn't afford that luxury.

"If people were racists they would be booing every indigenous player regardless if they were calling out racism or not. That's not the definition of racism." yeah i don't think you understand racism. so in order for someone to be racist they have to boo every indigenous player and until that happens it cannot possibly be racist? cmon.

 

[StCicatriz]

Chastised for his reaction to it. Why are you excusing him for acting in the heat of the moment but not the girl? She obviously said something racist and that isn't ok but what we're saying is that the 13 year old girl sitting in the front row of the footy isn't the root cause of racism in any given situation, especially with the adrenaline and heightened emotions that comes along with going to the footy. So why should she have been the face of racism in Australia? People booed Goodes because he acted just as poorly after what happened to him as the girl who called him an ape did.

so because you're watching live sport, adrenaline can cause you to make racist out bursts?

lets not attempted to equalize the actions of making a racist remark with that of reacting to it.

 

[Crusty Undies]

she learnt her lesson, it was a hard way no doubt, but an important lesson to learn. Would she have learnt it if Goodes didn't call her out? From memory her parents weren't much better so I'd say not, at least in her home life.

Life isn't perfect, the situation wasn't perfect, but I think Goodes handled it pretty well under the circumstances, given he was acting not just for himself, but on behalf of all indigenous Australians.

The girl didn't die, she'll be better for it, and so will the rest of Australia. Interview her in ten years and I bet she'll be thankful Goodes called her out and forced her to look at her behaviour sooner rather than later, because obviously no one else was doing that for her.

Are you sure about that though? Are you sure she didn't get bullied in school because she was called out at a national level and grew to despise Goodes and reinforce her beliefs about aboriginals? I'm just saying that it's a bit to idealistic for me to imagine that everyone went home sincerely better for what happened. I'm honestly still dubious that she learnt any lesson because public embarrassment is a pretty surefire way to make people double down on their beliefs. And I'd also disagree that Goodes handled it well. In fact I'd say that of all the instances I've seen of AFL players reacting to racism from viewers, he handled it just about the worst. As others have said, if racism really is why Goodes was booed then why wasn't Eddie Betts or Paddy Ryder booed more recently when they called it out? What about Buddy or Daw or NicNat? These players: especially Eddie, are celebrated for standing up to racism and being the bigger more mature people about it, instead of chucking a wobbly at a pre-teen on field.

 

[Crusty Undies]

so because you're watching live sport, adrenaline can cause you to make racist out bursts?

lets not attempted to equalize the actions of making a racist remark with that of reacting to it.

That's not at all what I said or am implying. But if you're going to try and deny that adrenaline will and does affect decision making then that's on you, especially in someone who's 13. I'm sure it also affected Goodes, but considering that he was more than twice her age, and a 300 game player used to the feeling of being in a match I'd think it's fair to expect him to deal with it better than he did.

Don't get me wrong, I'm really not trying to excuse what the girl said, it was wrong; I just think it was also wrong to paint her as the face of racism in Australia.

 

[George]

at 13, she needs to take some responsibility for what she said. she is old enough to know better but she's also at an age where you do a lot of stupid shit that's not necessarily you as a person. you are still learning and being shaped into what you will be as an adult. nor do you have the full capability to understand what your actions mean. she also may have been brought up in an environment where racism just occurred daily. she may have not known any better. to say her life has been ruined is a bit much. yes it's incredibly hard but her life has not been ruined.

i don't think its fair to say Goodes should have reacted better and to put this at his feet. i think its unfair to assume he knew she was a child. nor is it fair to just say well he should have done better. its incredibly unfair. i think his reaction was ok considering what had just been said to him. i think he spoke very well the next day. he summed it up perfectly. instead of listening to that and listening to what he had to say, we decided to boo him out of the game instead. as you said you were glad he left.

i feel sorry for her that she was put across tv like that, but it was her actions that made that happen. i feel sorry for Goodes that he was put in that position by her. I feel sorry for him that he tried to do the right thing being the spokes person for his people and highlighting how racism affects them on a daily basis, only for him to then be harshly judged by the public.

here's an alternative look at it. why hasn't the broadcaster been questioned here. they had the time and ability to really narrow in on the issue, should they have played it? maybe but should they have blanked out her face? i think so. they were in the box seat with the footage and time. Goodes wasn't afford that luxury.

"If people were racists they would be booing every indigenous player regardless if they were calling out racism or not. That's not the definition of racism." yeah i don't think you understand racism. so in order for someone to be racist they have to boo every indigenous player and until that happens it cannot possibly be racist? cmon.

I can agree with most of that except the last bit. I don't think you understand what I mean. I mean the same people that booed Goodes didn't boo Jetta every time he touched the ball and those same people didn't boo other indigenous players playing in that game or after that game.

Anyway it's been done to death. My view won't change. I thought he acted like a w***er and I was glad to see him retire. And I will defend people who booed him that were labelled as racist when they aren't racist at all and were booing him for other reasons - some of which I've already posted about. Others hold a different view and that's fine. But we can both probably agree that both sides should've acted better.

 

[Hayes4PM]

The mob mentality kicked in with the Goodes booing era. Racists were given an opening and took it. You may not have booed Goodes due to his race but there’s a good chance the others around you did. Plenty of campaigners out there just waiting for an opportunity to pipe up about their campaignerish racist views, the Goodes booing was their moment.

 

[VDS66]

And now for a word from our sponsors...

 

[StCicatriz]

That's not at all what I said or am implying. But if you're going to try and deny that adrenaline will and does affect decision making then that's on you, especially in someone who's 13. I'm sure it also affected Goodes, but considering that he was more than twice her age, and a 300 game player used to the feeling of being in a match I'd think it's fair to expect him to deal with it better than he did.

Don't get me wrong, I'm really not trying to excuse what the girl said, it was wrong; I just think it was also wrong to paint her as the face of racism in Australia.

adrenaline doesn't cause you make racist remarks out of no where. you make racist marks because you are racist. end of story really. there's no well this thing happened and it was totally out of nature. nah that person said it because they're racist. now she's young so that may change or it might just stay the same. who knows.

put it this way in the scale of wrongs i've seen on the footy field. Goodes would be a long long long way down the order before he got to the top of my list on who needs to be boo'd out of the game and who i want to see retire and if we are going to compare the girl with him. she's well ahead in the "find fault" stakes. regardless of age or anything really.

 

[Crusty Undies]

adrenaline doesn't cause you make racist remarks out of no where. you make racist marks because you are racist. end of story really. there's no well this thing happened and it was totally out of nature. nah that person said it because they're racist. now she's young so that may change or it might just stay the same. who knows.

put it this way in the scale of wrongs i've seen on the footy field. Goodes would be a long long long way down the order before he got to the top of my list on who needs to be boo'd out of the game and who i want to see retire and if we are going to compare the girl with him. she's well ahead in the "find fault" stakes. regardless of age or anything really.

I don't want to get into an argument about psychology but suffice to say you're incorrect. People will and do say things that they don't believe if their intention is just to hurt someone else.

Anyway, as I've already said, I don't think what she did was right, I just don't think what he did was either. This topic has been done to death today though so I'm gonna move onto something more interesting to talk about like the Adelaide game

 

[George]

And now for a word from our sponsors...

View attachment 661013

ABUSE!

 

[MOLTEN GANGLANDS]

yeah im out

 

[StCicatriz]

dragging it back to footy

did anyone see on the couch, some pretty interesting analysis on our melb game

 

[austinnn]

dragging it back to footy

did anyone see on the couch, some pretty interesting analysis on our melb game

Please explain

 

[st_trav_ofWA]

So Eddie was only booed after Goodes was? Eddie would've had to deal with this kind of stuff his entire life.

Maybe Eddie isn't Adam Goodes...maybe he understands the impact he can have on a childs life if he publicly shames them...he has kids of his own maybe he has always realised that calling out racism is fine but the impact it has depends on how you call it out...

sure as ive said from the start its the weight of numbers that made the goodes issue such a big issue ... in part he was not liked by opposition supporters to begin with .. he got noses out of joint with his Australian of the Year acceptance... he enraged certain people with his spear dance ... then he pointed out a person who racially villified him publicly .. so yes from a full body of work he certainly isnt Eddie Betts but the fact still remains even if he did make an error in how he shamed the girl who abused him (and look i dont buy it was seriously devestating for her ) then does the punishment of booing him to the point of break down really a fair and just punishment ?

 

[George]

sure as ive said from the start its the weight of numbers that made the goodes issue such a big issue ... in part he was not liked by opposition supporters to begin with .. he got noses out of joint with his Australian of the Year acceptance... he enraged certain people with his spear dance ... then he pointed out a person who racially villified him publicly .. so yes from a full body of work he certainly isnt Eddie Betts but the fact still remains even if he did make an error in how he shamed the girl who abused him (and look i dont buy it was seriously devestating for her ) then does the punishment of booing him to the point of break down really a fair and just punishment ?

No it's not fair and just, but that's not what I was arguing.

 

[Jughead77]

This racial stuff is way too serious for me. C'mon boys we're 2nd on the ladder.

Also have you guys heard the rodney eade, will minson tape? Its been 24hrs and i haven't stopped laughing.