List Mgmt. 2019 Trade Thread

[bird_man]

He was an average ruck last year and an average forward. He started to gain confidence rucking and I agree in principal. He was missing sitters last year but this year from his limited chances he seems to be converting them better. It's not the worst idea. Grundy is different because he plays like a huge mid, he can win his own ball and move through traffic. I think Marshall is more high potential as a KP/ruck than Grundy. Grundy is a superstar and I think Marshall has potential to be one too regardless.

Not sure if you realise how crazy it sounds, but you are suggesting we fork out something decent to get a quality ruckman, so we can move the quality ruckman we have into the forward line, where we already have enough forwards, in the hope that he might be able to become a quality forward?

Makes a hell of a lot more sense to me to keep the guy in the position he is excelling in and back the guy we took at pick 4 last year to play forward.

 

[VDS66]

List all the guns we've traded and drafted for then.

Billings
Gresh
Robbo
Marshall
Webster
Lonie
Ross
Blake
Battle
Jake
Parker
Wilkie
Membrey
Kent

 

[gringo2011]

Some of Marshall's strengths is winning his own clearances and his tackling work, making him like an extra midfielder at stoppages.
We lose that if he stick him in the forward line, where he was never that good anyway.

He seemed to mark alright up forward but kicked like a St Kilda Forward. His clearance work grabbing the ball from the ruck is definitely good, but in comparison to Grundy he's not as good ....yet.

 

[gringo2011]

Not sure if you realise how crazy it sounds, but you are suggesting we fork out something decent to get a quality ruckman, so we can move the quality ruckman we have into the forward line, where we already have enough forwards, in the hope that he might be able to become a quality forward?

Makes a hell of a lot more sense to me to keep the guy in the position he is excelling in and back the guy we took at pick 4 last year to play forward.

Don't shoot the messenger, just reporting what Dal said. I don't know if we are trading for anything yet, just mentioned that it was an idea. I thought maybe being at the club he had some inside knowledge on our planning. I just said it has some logical reasoning behind it.

 

[Tommy Wigs]

Well I disagree with Dal on that one. For a guy that has only rucked for 10 games Marshall has been terrific and At 23 there's still plenty of improvement left in him.

I don't know why we'd think about moving him out of the ruck and I'm not sure where he fits into the forward line when King comes in.

Yep, totally agree

 

[gringo2011]

OK...

The first three are currently best 22.

The next few we can argue compromised drafts. But so tell how many from other clubs made it.

Freeman, yes. Longer, yes. Goddard and Paddy unforeseen injuries. Not the only club there.

So who else did we sell our future for?

What about the players we got for peanuts?

Robbo, Willkie and Membrey?

Jake was a ripper trade.

Over to you...

I can't be bothered with a dick stretching comp. Just show me all the elite talent and A graders we have drafted and traded for and I'll shut up.

 

[gringo2011]

Billings
Gresh
Robbo
Marshall
Webster
Lonie
Ross
Blake
Battle
Jake
Parker
Wilkie
Membrey
Kent

Looks like you've already done it. Which ones are elite or A grade?

 

[Gosaints12]

I absolutely never said we don't need midfielders. I agree we do.

Rather the above was responding to your assertion that we have tall depth. I just don't see how that can be true.

It is absolutely true you don't need to ne 6'5+ to be a good defender. I think JWebb is a great defender. But I dont want to play him on Daniher / Cox / Kennedy etc or a resting ruck. To do that you do need to be 6'5+ otherwise you get murdered in the air

Its the problem being pointed out here



We have far too many of the same types. Take our backline. Not counting players over 30 we have:

HBF / BP options (10): Coff, Sav, Geary, Webb, White, Newnes, Rice, Paton, DMac, Hind
3rd tall options (6): Battle, Clav, Joyce, Marsh and I will call Robbo and Wilkie an option here too
Key defender options (2): Carlisle, Austin (maybe although plays closer to a 3rd than a genuine KPP)

Can argue one or two either way, but regardless of exact categorisations that leaves us very short on ready to play tall options (ie depth) and very heavy on flankers in the back half.

Delisting Goddard meant that without Carlisle our options as key defenders are either 30+ (Brown / Rowe), nowhere near ready to play regularly (Clav, Joyce), or are undersized and very likely to get absolutely monstered by anyone 200cm+ and 100kg+ (Marsh, Battle). Anything else is just posters saying that (insert player here who has never really played AFL) will be a long term option for us. Its closer to hopes and dreams than anything tangible.

And that's without touching our forwardline group which outside of Bruce is either likely to retire (Paddy) or been at the club a few weeks and have never played a game of AFL in their life (King / Mayo).

Hence the above comment by Mikka. We have a ridiculous amount of flankers and 3rd talls on our list.

Yes we need to draft mids, but its not an either / or when it comes to fixing our list. We are also going to have to find KPP's from somewhere, because looking forward Carlisle, Bruce and maybe King is simply not enough. That's the price we are paying for not being able to draft AND develop a single genuinely good key tall in over 15 years!

Someone like Clav may break that trend. Fingers crossed. But to just rely on the talls we have would be negligent. Who is our main tall forward if Bruce breaks his leg tomorrow?

Austbury or Tomlinson may work as FA options (replacing Brown). Roberts noted above can also work as handy depth.

Keath, Day Weideman and Wright are also OOC (and have varying levels of appeal without being superstars). But my guess is that most people will look at that list and say they don't want any of those 7 options for some reason or other (which usually ends with I would rather have Rance, Talia or some other star that is completely unattainable). But realistically that is where we are going to have to find some options, as the good KPP's are all signed up long-term.

After that our options are either too old and only 1 year fixes (Henderson, Reid, Frawley), quite average (Hartley, M.Brown, Shoenmakers, Frost, Durdin) or again stretching the definition of a KPP (Marchbank, Logue, Buntine)

The best OOC tall options in the league are probably Carlisle and Marshall!

So we either overpay to get a contracted young tall from somewhere (Hence Stewart's call above to go after Bing every year between now and 2022) or if we cant do that, yes we will have to draft KPP's. People wont like it, but given we are conservatively 3 KPP's short moving forward (and talls take longer to develop) that is the reality.

Or we go back to the bottom of the ladder grab some early picks and hit the Comp hard in 2 years time.

 

[luca77]

List all the guns we've traded and drafted for then.

It's hard to list them all. And I've only got a few minutes in my coffee break.
Membrey, Dempster, Gram, Gardiner, Mark Jackson, Membrey, Dean Anderson, Roberton, Membrey, Big Jake, maybe Hanners, Membrey...jeez I could go on and on. Did I mention Membrey yet?
I'm having a lend by the way, especially about Jacko e.t.c I was interested to see who you thought the lemons were. Not sure Dunstan, Sav and Acres count as lemons (jury's out on a couple of them maybe but Sav's pretty solid I think)

 

[gringo2011]

It's hard to list them all. And I've only got a few minutes in my coffee break.
Membrey, Dempster, Gram, Gardiner, Mark Jackson, Membrey, Dean Anderson, Roberton, Membrey, Big Jake, maybe Hanners, Membrey...jeez I could go on and on. Did I mention Membrey yet?
I'm having a lend by the way, especially about Jacko e.t.c I was interested to see who you thought the lemons were. Not sure Dunstan, Sav and Acres count as lemons (jury's out on a couple of them maybe but Sav's pretty solid I think)

Sav has come on after being out of the best 22 most of his time with us. Dunny gets dropped constantly and it looks like we are trading out Acres at the end of the year potentially. Not my idea of a great trade. I have higher standards than you though obviously.

 

[VDS66]

I can't be bothered with a dick stretching comp. Just show me all the elite talent and A graders we have drafted and traded for and I'll shut up.

No need to stretch. I've got you covered on that one...

 

[VDS66]

Sav has come on after being out of the best 22 most of his time with us. Dunny gets dropped constantly and it looks like we are trading out Acres at the end of the year potentially. Not my idea of a great trade. I have higher standards than you though obviously.

So we have drafted a lemon in Blake but you don't want him traded?

 

[luca77]

Sav has come on after being out of the best 22 most of his time with us. Dunny gets dropped constantly and it looks like we are trading out Acres at the end of the year potentially. Not my idea of a great trade. I have higher standards than you though obviously.

Dunno about obviously, but maybe.
Sav has come on, that's all that matters to me. Dunstan could still turn out to be a very good player imo. As for Acres, have I missed some kind of news? Does it look like we're trading him out, or does "potentially" mean that it's just a possibility conjured up on BF? I'll try to judge the trade in another year I think.

 

[borderbarry]

When you consider that we have no 2nd or 3rd round picks again, taking Jack Mayo on Monday was a really good move,

 

[SaintsSeptember]

Sav has come on after being out of the best 22 most of his time with us. Dunny gets dropped constantly and it looks like we are trading out Acres at the end of the year potentially. Not my idea of a great trade. I have higher standards than you though obviously.

Jesus Gringo, you are like the little old lady who goes hysterical on Flying High, and everyone needs to line up to slap you.

Savage has played : 14,20,21, 21 18, and then 10 games this year. That is NOT out of the best 22 most of the time. He's our leading rebounder from defence now Roberton is gone.

Dunstan has played 16 games in both 2017 and 2018, not bad for someone being dropped constantly.

I'd be amazed and stunned to be standing here if any clubs were currently doing serious trade talks for Acres right now.
BUT: He needs to pull his finger out.

 

[gringo2011]

So we have drafted a lemon in Blake but you don't want him traded?

He's got potential still, that's all. If he goes somewhere else and is a gun it will be more evidence of St Kilda incompetence as well.

 

[gringo2011]

Jesus Gringo, you are like the little old lady who goes hysterical on Flying High, and everyone needs to line up to slap you.

Savage has played : 14,20,21, 21 18, and then 10 games this year. That is NOT out of the best 22 most of the time. He's our leading rebounder from defence now Roberton is gone.

Dunstan has played 16 games in both 2017 and 2018, not bad for someone being dropped constantly.

I'd be amazed and stunned to be standing here if any clubs were currently doing serious trade talks for Acres right now.
BUT: He needs to pull his finger out.

16 out of 23 games is not dropped constantly? Savage has always had been in and out too. I rate Savage but he's not a star. Mc Evoy is. If you trade a star for a guy who's depth it's still shithouse.

 

[Keg on legs]

Id be happy with Tomlinson - no trade required and only costs us coin

I'd also have a long look at Cunnington. Norph have made it clear they're happy to move players on to expedite their rebuild. He is a serious player, still only 27 and could be that inside beast we need. Depends on a medical to see how banged up he is but he can play. OOC end of 2020 and surely he leaves then.

 

[Keg on legs]

16 out of 23 games is not dropped constantly? Savage has always had been in and out too. I rate Savage but he's not a star. Mc Evoy is. If you trade a star for a guy who's depth it's still shithouse.

Me first....

 

[gringo2011]

Me first....View attachment 683301

I'd be like one of those pissed guys who punch you all and get dropped off in some remote Phillipnes airport on the way to Europe.

 

[SaintsSeptember]

Here's a stupid comparison:
Players with * plenty of room to improve.

Stephen Milne : Elite Dean Kent : Good
Nick Riewoldt : Elite Josh Bruce : Good
Jason Gram : very good. Shane Savage: Very good
Andrew McQualter :OK Long : OK
Koschitski : OK Membrey : Very Good.
Jones : OK Steele : Very Good.
Ray : OK Newnes : OK
Hayes : Elite Dunstan : OK
Dal Santo: Elite? Ross : Very Good
Goddard : Very Good Acres: OK
Fisher : Elite Battle : Very Good*
Gilbert : Very Good Wilkie : Very Good
Blake : OK Marsh : OK *
Dawson: OK Brown : Good
Baker : OK McKenzie OK *
King : Good Marshall : Good*
Montagna : Very Good Billings * : Very good.
Schneider : Very good Parker : Good *
Ball : Good Gresham : Very good *
Clarke : OK Sinclair : Good *
Dempster : Very Good Phillips: OK
Gardiner : Good Young : OK

Now team A obviously has the elites but how does it bat for depth.
Take out.... Fisher ( Carlisle ) , Montagna( Steven ) , DalSanto ( Hannebery) , Schneider( Lonie ) , Gram ( Webster ), Baker ( Geary ).

What does our 2009 premiership team look like with its replacements.
Gwilt? Eddy? Colm Begley? Young Armo and Steven?

What if Kosi had concussion issues. Zero gamer Tom Lynch?
What if Gilbert had a medical issue. Luke Miles? Eljay Connor?

If we can find/develop some top end talent ( including King, Bytel , Hannebery ) we will have a very strong list.

 

[Yawkey way]

Id be happy with Tomlinson - no trade required and only costs us coin

I'd also have a long look at Cunnington. Norph have made it clear they're happy to move players on to expedite their rebuild. He is a serious player, still only 27 and could be that inside beast we need. Depends on a medical to see how banged up he is but he can play. OOC end of 2020 and surely he leaves then.

Cunnington is an absolute beast but even norf aren’t stupid enough to trade him peanuts, still it’s worth asking.

 

[Keg on legs]

Cunnington is an absolute beast but even norf aren’t stupid enough to trade him peanuts, still it’s worth asking.

Future 1st with something back?

I'd love their 2nd to get Boner or similar but they won't give that back. At absolute best a 1st for cunnington and a 3rd?

 

[pebblesofsand]

Not sure if you realise how crazy it sounds, but you are suggesting we fork out something decent to get a quality ruckman, so we can move the quality ruckman we have into the forward line, where we already have enough forwards, in the hope that he might be able to become a quality forward?

Makes a hell of a lot more sense to me to keep the guy in the position he is excelling in and back the guy we took at pick 4 last year to play forward.

Sorry but I can't get my head around the idea that Marshalls improvement as a ruckman is somehow mutually exclusive to the possibility that he may have also have improved as a forward.

At the moment he is our best option as a ruckman, that's why he's getting picked there - but that doesn't mean that the selectors aren't thinking that jeez if we had another ruck option how good would be to occasionally throw this highly improved player into key forward spot and really stretch the opposition.

 

[SaintsSeptember]

16 out of 23 games is not dropped constantly? Savage has always had been in and out too. I rate Savage but he's not a star. Mc Evoy is. If you trade a star for a guy who's depth it's still shithouse.

Find the post before we traded him that said he was a star.