2020 AFL fixture released

[FreeTK]

You have been freaking out about the draw not benefiting wce, finals not benefiting wce, clubs getting flags that are not worthy because they are not the wce. You're unhinged and an embarrassment. Congrats, my first ignore post the gf clean out

LOL, I've said over and over, I love our fixture.

 

[VicBased]

....at least my supporter base isn't trying to change facts and rewrite history

There is that denial again.

 

[VicBased]

I'm not denying that there's some decisions that have been made in the AFL to benefit some teams;

Is your team amongst those that have benefited?

 

[FreeTK]

I'm not denying that there's some decisions that have been made in the AFL to benefit some teams; as has there been decisions to benefit other teams.

At least I talk about the AFL using the same terminology and history that they do rather than changing numbers to suit my own personal rants.

The AFL uses the Prefix AFL/VFL when discussing the entire history of the league

Eg: This is from Richmonds website;

'Richmond's 12 Premierships makes it one of the most decorated clubs in VFL/AFL history.'

Notice how they don't say, "Richmonds 12 premierships makes it one of the most decorated clubs in AFL history". That's because that statement would not be true as only 2 of its 12 flags were won during the period of time which the competition was known as AFL.

we cool now?

 

[FreeTK]

Because you clearly can’t provide even ONE example when the AFL itself or even the media differentiates premierships into ‘AFL era’ premierships.

Am I wrong that Richmond's 1980 Premiership cup has "VFL Premiers" written on it?

https://www.theage.com.au/sport/afl/the-greatest-of-them-all-in-the-afl-20140926-10meaq.html
https://www.theroar.com.au/2018/05/09/best-two-clubs-afl-era-no-neither-hawthorn/
https://www.afl.com.au/news/2019-03-27/great-debuts-and-false-starts-of-the-afl-era

There you go.

One of those is from the AFL website, one from a reputable newspaper and the other a blog where people contribute op ed pieces. Three very different forums and yet they all refer to the period from 1990 onwards as distinct from the period that preceded it.

 

[Crankyhawk]

Jfyi this dick measuring means nothing for RFC fans. We don't have anywhere near as many as the blues pies dons and hawks, we are middle of the pack and that's fine

Your desperation to remove 100 years of history to pump your own club up is frankly sad

Well you are quite near to hawks (we have 13 you have 12)

 

[Ned_Flanders]

Well you are quite near to hawks (we have 13 you have 12)

I thought you had more, shows you how few ****s I give

 

[Grin]

Cats had 3 in the 6 rounds last year with back to back interstate games and start next season with 3 in the first 6 rounds with 2 trips to WA.

How many interstate trips in total next year?

 

[Grin]

It's also incredibly entertaining how much Richmond supporters are in denial about their privileges.

Yet to hear you acknowledge yours.
But I guess you see them as entitlements rather than privileges.

 

[Tiger Toffee]

That is not up to the supporters but from my point of view...NO...would be my answer. New competition means we should go back to zero, as would any fair minded supporter.

Why, it's not a new competition just a name change.

 

[FreeTK]

Two opinion pieces and an article from the AFL website that doesn't even focus on Premierships at all.... if that's the best you've got, clearly you're drawing at straws and realising that the AFL itself includes the linage of the VFL premierships in it's AFL premiership out.

I'm not saying that the two eras aren't different-- but by pretending that VFL premierships are different than AFL premierships and aren't in the same historical linage is about as factually correct as Willie Rioli accidentally spilling gatorade.

You asked me to find any trace of the afl or media using the term afl era and making distinctions between pre and post 1990. I did that with an article from AFL website, the age, and an op ed. Now you are just shifting the goal posts.

The articles all use the exact same language I am using in this thread. You said I was re-writing history, I countered that AFL and media use AFL as a way to make a clear statement about the period of time you are talking about and that pre/post 1990 are distinct from each other that it is possible to talk about one and the other as different periods in the same league.

Eg From the Age article:

"Supporters of Carlton and Essendon will sing long and loud that it is they who hold bragging rights, each with 16 VFL and AFL premierships, just ahead of Collingwood's 15. But fans from beyond the Victorian border, not unjustifiably, have an issue with that seeing their clubs had no opportunity to make their own mark for most of that time.
If the name change from a Victorian-based competition to a national league in 1990 is a starting point, there's four clubs each on top of the "ladder" with three flags apiece, Hawthorn, Geelong, and another two – West Coast and Brisbane Lions – from far beyond the Victorian border.

But is it that simple anymore? Sustained success in the AFL era has been harder to come by than it used to be in the VFL days.

Consider the following. The last 23 premierships won under the VFL banner between 1967-89 were shared by just five clubs – Carlton, Hawthorn, Richmond, North Melbourne and Essendon. Saturday's grand final will be the 25th contested in the AFL.

 

[FreeTK]

So a RoCo opinion piece is the best you can come up with?

It's not using the same language you're using either-- you've repeatedly said Richmond has 2 AFL Premierships (I'd go back and find the quotes, but I can't be bothered anymore). Nowhere in that article does RoCo state that it's FACT the AFL premierships are categorically separated. In fact let's look at this one line you've mentioned again:

If the name change from a Victorian-based competition to a national league in 1990 is a starting point, there's four clubs each on top of the "ladder" with three flags apiece, Hawthorn, Geelong, and another two – West Coast and Brisbane Lions – from far beyond the Victorian border.

A key word is IF that's the starting point-- not THAT it's the starting point.

Because the author is recognising that there are contested ideas and sensitivities around the issue so prefaced his statement with 'if' to acknowledge people on the other side of the debate.

He did separate them, as he then listed 4 clubs with three flags since 1990 (AFL era) irrespective of whether they had won flags pre 1990 (Hawthorn and Geelong obviously have). The list in and of itself is making distinctions between Hathworn and Geelong's VFL/AFL premierships, otherwise they would not be grouped with West Coast and Brisbane.

That is exactly what I have been referring to with Richmond's two flags in the AFL era.

I was responding the Flanders repeatedly ask for ONE article from AFL or media. At first I was ignoring his request as I'm currently at work, but found those pretty quick and there are many more just like it.

Not trying to pick a fight, just saying that your view of how the AFL should present it's history is not fait accompli and is complex with many different points of view inside and outside of AFL bubble.

Also, there is no shame in having won 10 flags pre 1990 VFL era and 2 flags post 1990 AFL era.

 

[Billy ray]

Wish my team had a premiership

 

[FreeTK]

Because you clearly can’t provide even ONE example when the AFL itself or even the media differentiates premierships into only ‘AFL era’ premierships.

Original post

You were trying to use Richmond's flag wins as an insult, got repeatedly told you were wrong (by multiple posters) and the best you could find was an Opinion piece by RoCo who at best discussed your point of view as a possibility.

There's no shame in saying that your attempt insult at Richmond fell flat and that your views on the history of the AFL differs from the majority of the audience.

There were 3 articles, one from the AFL itself clearly referring to AFL era as a period post 1990.

Of course my POV is going to be the minority, Victoria has 10 clubs and media centre of the competition. Being in the minority isn't wrong.

You were proven wrong when you asked for any evidence of an AFL era reported by ANY AFL person or media and I provided it. Now you shift the goal posts to try and hide the fact that you got shown up in this argument.

There is no insult to Richmond in saying that they have won two premierships in the AFL era. It just so happens that it is a rung below Hawks, Eagles, Cats, and Lions. It isn't an insult, its just a statement of fact.

 

[FreeTK]

So you've taken HALF of my comment (as you can re-read it below) and not focus on the other half.

Where in the AFL article does it describe premierships?

The goal posts are shifting--you just can't read (or choose not to)

Your question had multiple elements, and asked for one example from AFL or media. I did better than that.

The age article does talks about distinction between AFL/VFL premierships
The AFL article recognises the AFL era as a distinct period in the article as it's story is about debut "in the AFL era".

Dude, you lost.

Can we be friends and talk about something else now?

 

[FreeTK]

If you can admit that declaring that "Richmond only has 2 AFL premierships" is a controversial statement that is against the standard definition by the AFL media. Then sure.

It is a very controversial statement, however there is no standard definition. In fact I would say that the AFL actively avoids and completely skirts the issue.

 

[FreeTK]

Where as I would say that AFL actively uses the VFL/AFL linear definition.

I tried to give you an olive branch for you to accept that what you're saying is wrong; but instead you just want to blame the AFL. Typical Western Australian.

That's the whole conversation we are having, is that I am not wrong. There are people in AFL/media that clearly see the VFL/AFL as one linear competition with distinct periods characterised by elements I discussed before.

I've spent a lot of time appeasing your requests (and proven my point to be correct every single time). However you still want me to admit I am wrong.

While I have enjoyed the back and forth, this is now a circular argument. No hard feelings, but maybe there just other things we can discuss and agree to disagree on this one.

 

[FreeTK]

I'm happy to end this conversation--- but only purely because you haven't proven to be correct even once, you're entire premise that Richmond only has 2 AFL premiership relies on pages of rambling and an opinion piece written by RoCo.

Richmond are 12 time VFL/AFL Premiers; including two of the last three. But back to the original point (before you went on an anti VFL/AFL, let's change history rant) -- Richmond are playing Geelong at the MCG in 2020, because it's a Richmond home game.

No dude. You asked for ONE piece of evidence from AFL or media talking about AFL era being distinct from VFL/AFL overall history.

I did what you asked. I gave you 3 pieces of evidence.

Now you are dismissing the very evidence of the use of the term AFL era that you asked for. That is Trumpian like gaslighting, and I am not playing anymore.

Richmond has won 2 Premierships in the AFL era.

Game over, you lost.

 

[FreeTK]

Because you clearly can’t provide even ONE example when the AFL itself or even the media differentiates premierships into only ‘AFL era’ premierships.

Clearly saying 'AFL era premierships'

Sorry bro-- it's not my fault you struggle to read a full post and only pick and choose words that suit you.

Already did that bro:

https://www.theage.com.au/sport/afl/the-greatest-of-them-all-in-the-afl-20140926-10meaq.html

"Supporters of Carlton and Essendon will sing long and loud that it is they who hold bragging rights, each with 16 VFL and AFL premierships, just ahead of Collingwood's 15. But fans from beyond the Victorian border, not unjustifiably, have an issue with that seeing their clubs had no opportunity to make their own mark for most of that time.
If the name change from a Victorian-based competition to a national league in 1990 is a starting point, there's four clubs each on top of the "ladder" with three flags apiece, Hawthorn, Geelong, and another two – West Coast and Brisbane Lions – from far beyond the Victorian border.

But is it that simple anymore? Sustained success in the AFL era has been harder to come by than it used to be in the VFL days.

Consider the following. The last 23 premierships won under the VFL banner between 1967-89 were shared by just five clubs – Carlton, Hawthorn, Richmond, North Melbourne and Essendon. Saturday's grand final will be the 25th contested in the AFL."


That's just one of the three articles I posted.

You've lost bro.

 

[VicBased]

For those playing along at home-- this is what I asked for:



Clearly saying 'AFL era premierships'

Sorry bro-- it's not my fault you struggle to read a full post and only pick and choose words that suit you.

Your a nit picky fella aren't you. Must be a blast at the conversation table at dinnertime. Talk about unable to acknowledge or, worse still, lose a conversation.

 

[VicBased]

What is it with West Coast Whingers fans coming out of the woodwork in 2019.... interesting that some of the biggest flogs on BigFooty only joined AFTER their team won a premiership.

Now you are just grasping at straws. See you in 2020.

 

[hawkman]

So thoughts on the 2020 fixture?

 

[Ned_Flanders]

So thoughts on the 2020 fixture?

Apparently it's the toughest draw in the history of man for west coast, the cats are offended that away games are not at Kardinia Park.

Other than that, okay

 

[VicBased]

And Richmond are comfortable in the fact they have 16 in Melbourne and 14 at home. Business as usual.

 

[Ned_Flanders]

And Richmond are comfortable in the fact they have 16 in Melbourne and 14 at home. Business as usual.

are we comfortable that 45% of our away games are in Victoria, even though 53% of non-RFC teams are Victorian?

Yeah, because unlike you, anything anywhere anytime