2020 Consensus 22: name the team FFS

Blue__Balls

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Probably the toughest area of the ground to pick at this stage.

Realistically there are 8 to choose from and I am struggling to bring that down to 7.

1. Jones
2. Weitering
3. Plowman
4. Docherty

Those four pick themselves IMO.

5. SPS

We are clearly looking at SPS off half back though I maintain long-term he'll be moved back into the midfield where I think we'll see his best footy.

6. Marchbank
7. Simpson
8. Newman

One of these three have to miss out here and I am just not comfortable splitting them at this stage.

- Marchbank is a clear best 22 player but we haven't seen the best of him yet due to injury and I fear we never will.
- Simmo, this is the closest I have been to advocating for him not being there in over a decade. A stalwart, the end is nigh, but I cannot quite get my head around him not being there if he is fit.
- Newman was the surprise packet of 2019 for many, but not for me. I was very vocal in this thread last year in that he will be a part of our best side, and he had a very good debut season in navy blue. Not sure he is a lock, but also not sure he will be squeezed out as many are suggesting.

Hmmm....
Yeah, I reckon Simmo starts but probably doesn't finish in the best 22. Whether Newman or Willo takes that spot is dependent on Willo's fitness and Teague's attitude towards youth. Newman should provide consistent good output, but getting games into Willo could pay off more in the medium term (ie. next year).
 

Jeremias

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Reckon the mids is way harder.
Maybe. We'll see shortly when it is time to vote for them.

I think they're more straightforward though.

Yeah, I reckon Simmo starts but probably doesn't finish in the best 22. Whether Newman or Willo takes that spot is dependent on Willo's fitness and Teague's attitude towards youth. Newman should provide consistent good output, but getting games into Willo could pay off more in the medium term (ie. next year).
He'll finish there given he'll almost certainly finish up at the end of the year.

Newman vs Willo is an interesting one. I am a huge Willo fan but cannot consider him for best 22 at this stage, given he has barely played footy at any level for 2 years now.

Newman on the back of a really good 2019 is clearly ahead. But in time I see them both able to feature in the same side, given I've suggested either could be very damaging on the wing at AFL level.
 

Stamos

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5. SPS

We are clearly looking at SPS off half back though I maintain long-term he'll be moved back into the midfield where I think we'll see his best footy.
Two parts to this:
1. We need his distribution out of the back half.
2. The midfield is stacked with talent. And while the first 6 picked (5 without Samo) in the backline are top quality, it comes down to the last defenders Simmo/Newman/Willo vs the last mids Fisher/Dow/O'Brien/Newnes/Stocker/Kennedy/Gibbons
 

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Blue__Balls

Norm Smith Medallist
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He'll finish there given he'll almost certainly finish up at the end of the year.

Newman vs Willo is an interesting one. I am a huge Willo fan but cannot consider him for best 22 at this stage, given he has barely played footy at any level for 2 years now.

Newman on the back of a really good 2019 is clearly ahead. But in time I see them both able to feature in the same side, given I've suggested either could be very damaging on the wing at AFL level.
There are also other options for the wing positions as well though, which makes it tricky. You can't just say "both Newman and Willo deserve to start in the seniors, so one can play on the wing" when the wings are potentially where O'Brien, Murphy, Walsh, Fisher, Newnes, Curnow, Cuningham, Setterfield, Gibbons, Stocker etc. are getting their game time (or at least some of their game time). It's also a position someone like Cottrell or Philp might see some opportunity if they're deemed deserving of a senior debut.

Definitely the hardest line to get consensus on, I think, we invested in the defensive stocks early, and as a result we have a greater number of "established" types who probably get accommodated but may well be overtaken.
 

The Smoking Gun

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I have, in order of first picked:

1. Weitering
2. Docherty
3. Jones
4. Plowman
5. SPS
6. Williamson
7. Simpson

The reality is that a fit Marchbank squeezes himself in. But I think at this stage the defence needs a fit Williamson more than a fit Marchbank.
They both have some versatility. At the end of the day a couple miss out from our group of about 9 who can play there.

If Marchy is the legit 3rd tall(i agree) then Doc or Willo could get the shit jobs and we add some more run with it.

All is debateable. But Plow has a spot right now for mine.

My 7 were: Weiters, Jones, Plow, Doc, Samo, Simpson, Willo.
I must admit to being absolutely amazed that people leave Newman out of their Best 22. Played 20 of 22 games last year, yet still amassed 428 disposals (5th highest of any Carlton player in 2019) and is essentially the only defender we have that can also impact the scoreboard. He's also only one of two defenders on our list capable of kicking the ball beyond the opposition's defensive zone. Arguably the best bargain basement buy the club's made since Heath Scotland.
 

Mr_Plow

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I must admit to being absolutely amazed that people leave Newman out of their Best 22. Played 20 of 22 games last year, yet still amassed 428 disposals (5th highest of any Carlton player in 2019) and is essentially the only defender we have that can also impact the scoreboard. He's also only one of two defenders on our list capable of kicking the ball beyond the opposition's defensive zone. Arguably the best bargain basement buy the club's made since Heath Scotland.
With ball in hand he is a very good football player. He does require other players to compensate for his lack of defensive ability without the ball, though, which is a significant limitation.
 

Stamos

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I must admit to being absolutely amazed that people leave Newman out of their Best 22. Played 20 of 22 games last year, yet still amassed 428 disposals (5th highest of any Carlton player in 2019) and is essentially the only defender we have that can also impact the scoreboard. He's also only one of two defenders on our list capable of kicking the ball beyond the opposition's defensive zone. Arguably the best bargain basement buy the club's made since Heath Scotland.
Was definitely a great bargain buy, and is valuable depth on the list.

But despite your quoted stats, and particularly for a senior player clocking up 20 games this year, was not in the top 10 of our B&F.
 

CJMB

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I must admit to being absolutely amazed that people leave Newman out of their Best 22. Played 20 of 22 games last year, yet still amassed 428 disposals (5th highest of any Carlton player in 2019) and is essentially the only defender we have that can also impact the scoreboard. He's also only one of two defenders on our list capable of kicking the ball beyond the opposition's defensive zone. Arguably the best bargain basement buy the club's made since Heath Scotland.
The voting currently has him as the defensive emergency, and by a reasonable margin. I dare say that margin could in fact be greater than it is, as there will be some electing to not vote for Samo here as they'd prefer him to play elsewhere on the ground.

FB: Marchbank (75%) Jones (99%) Plowman (90%)
HB: Docherty (99%) Weitering (100%) Simpson (76%)

INT: Petrevski-Seton (70%)

EMG Newman (55%)

Depth: Williamson (23%), Levi (3%), Stocker (3%), Goddard (1%)

Yet to poll: Cottrell, Kemp, Macreadie, Martin, McGovern, Newnes, O'Brien, B Silvagni.
 

Matty411

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Be cool if we had a voting algorithm to allow people to discriminate their choices of 'starting 6' and 'bench' but our current method is about as good as we can get without making people do their physical representation of their 7 and collate upwards of 100.

Plus we get more votes in this simple format.

I'd be happy with that current consensus, though just swap SPS and Newy (with SPS in the guts). In reality though, Newman is borderline Best 22 on talent when all are fit - so this is probably a valid defensive setup. But you just know he'll play 20-22 games in 2020.
 

RedFury

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I'd be happy with that current consensus, though just swap SPS and Newy (with SPS in the guts). In reality though, Newman is borderline Best 22 on talent when all are fit - so this is probably a valid defensive setup. But you just know he'll play 20-22 games in 2020.
I feel similarly about Casboult. Almost certainly won't make the consensus side IMO (won't be picked forward before McKay, Curnow, McGov nor in defense before Jones Weiters) yet barring injury or a sudden form drop you could just about pencil him in for 15+ games now due to our injury concerns and his flexibility.
 

Matty411

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I don't know this at all.
Given injuries will naturally occur and Newy's form didn't really drop too much (and for long), he's the type who'll prove important to our 22 and I just can't see him being dropped.
I feel similarly about Casboult. Almost certainly won't make the consensus side IMO (won't be picked forward before McKay, Curnow, McGov nor in defense before Jones Weiters) yet barring injury or a sudden form drop you could just about pencil him in for 15+ games now due to our injury concerns and his flexibility.
True - in this exercise, Cas will probably sit on the bench but with our 2 key injuries, he'll start Round 1 and barring a mass form drop will find it hard to be displaced. I wouldn't be unhappy with this at all if he plays like he did in 2019.
 

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Stamos

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Given injuries will naturally occur and Newy's form didn't really drop too much (and for long), he's the type who'll prove important to our 22 and I just can't see him being dropped.
Well, he's battling Simmo, Williamson and maybe Newnes for a spot
 

Matty411

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Well, he's battling Simmo, Williamson and maybe Newnes for a spot
Agree, and this can only be a great thing. Simmo and Newman have precedence so a spot in the Round 1 side is theirs to lose. Newnes should be there or as an emergency in Round 1. Willo has some ground to cover and would need blistering preseason game form to take a spot over one of the primary two. Throwing SPS into the mix down back adds another element to consider.

I'm just stoked we have actual quality to choose from.
 

Stamos

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Agree, and this can only be a great thing. Simmo and Newman have precedence so a spot in the Round 1 side is theirs to lose. Newnes should be there or as an emergency in Round 1. Willo has some ground to cover and would need blistering preseason game form to take a spot over one of the primary two. Throwing SPS into the mix down back adds another element to consider.

I'm just stoked we have actual quality to choose from.
1. There's a whole pre-season between now and then, nobody really has 'rights'
2. If Marchbank and Docherty are fit, Simmo and Newman are battling for the same spot
 

The Smoking Gun

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Well, he's battling Simmo, Williamson and maybe Newnes for a spot
1. There's a whole pre-season between now and then, nobody really has 'rights'
2. If Marchbank and Docherty are fit, Simmo and Newman are battling for the same spot
If Simmo isn't borderline best 22 by midyear then we all have a right to be questioning our development programs IMO.
 

Jeremias

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There are also other options for the wing positions as well though, which makes it tricky. You can't just say "both Newman and Willo deserve to start in the seniors, so one can play on the wing" when the wings are potentially where O'Brien, Murphy, Walsh, Fisher, Newnes, Curnow, Cuningham, Setterfield, Gibbons, Stocker etc. are getting their game time (or at least some of their game time). It's also a position someone like Cottrell or Philp might see some opportunity if they're deemed deserving of a senior debut.
Newman isn't competing with half those players for a spot on the wing.

LOB, Walsh, Newnes, Setterfield the only four who I would have out on a wing for any extended period of time. And given there are two wings and most of these guys have good flexibility there's no reason why someone like Newman couldn't play significant minutes on a wing.

Definitely the hardest line to get consensus on, I think, we invested in the defensive stocks early, and as a result we have a greater number of "established" types who probably get accommodated but may well be overtaken.
Maybe the hardest by volume but it remains pretty clear to me who should/shouldn't be there, at least at the start of the year.

We'll see when the mids come around and the votes become apparent.
 

Stamos

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If Simmo isn't borderline best 22 by midyear then we all have a right to be questioning our development programs IMO.
Who knows. Half way through this year it was looking like he was going to retire, but then was fantastic for the second half of the season (which was likely no coincidence).

Would be great if Willo forces his way into the team.
Newman is likely a back-up, either way.
 

Mr_Plow

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Newman isn't competing with half those players for a spot on the wing.

LOB, Walsh, Newnes, Setterfield the only four who I would have out on a wing for any extended period of time. And given there are two wings and most of these guys have good flexibility there's no reason why someone like Newman couldn't play significant minutes on a wing.



Maybe the hardest by volume but it remains pretty clear to me who should/shouldn't be there, at least at the start of the year.

We'll see when the mids come around and the votes become apparent.
Endurance probably gets in the way of Newman playing wing for extended periods of time.
 

Stamos

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Maybe the hardest by volume but it remains pretty clear to me who should/shouldn't be there, at least at the start of the year.

We'll see when the mids come around and the votes become apparent.
I figure 5 of the 7 mids get 100% votes. It's the other 2 spots which are much harder to pick.
 

Jeremias

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Endurance probably gets in the way of Newman playing wing for extended periods of time.
Endurance isn't his strength, but it doesn't strike me as a major weakness either.

We barely saw it at all last year but he has shown previously that he's pretty comfortable playing further up the ground.

I figure 5 of the 7 mids get 100% votes. It's the other 2 spots which are much harder to pick.
4-5 will get 100%. I think the last few are pretty clear also but it'll be interesting to see the votes.
 

Rambis

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Hope Teague doesnt go with a lumbery backline. He didnt last year.
I would not like to see Jones, Weitering, Plow and Marchbank in the same backline. We havent won many games with those 4 all in the back 6.
Teague showed last year that it wasnt really his go. He picked smaller more running teams than Boltons land of the giants selections.
Fingers crossed.
 

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