Jmo, but i'll be surprised if Dow sees NB's time. I seem to be in an evergrowing minority on this....but i reckon he'll be in the 1's and going forward rather quickly to even better things.
Dynamic young player.
2020 Consensus 22: name the team FFS
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Jmo, but i'll be surprised if Dow sees NB's time. I seem to be in an evergrowing minority on this....but i reckon he'll be in the 1's and going forward rather quickly to even better things.
Dynamic young player.
Do you see him as a mid forward blend or purely on ball (for the most part) ?
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In answer to the OP question - the simplest way to go about fitting all teh midfielders in the side is to pick the best performing players each week - just a thought. 
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I actually agree with you.
He is desperately unlucky to not make my 22; he's the one I "ummed and ahhed" over the most.
Absolutely love Paddy as a prospect and I have defended him ad nauseum on here over the past 2 years. I suspect that when it all clicks for him he'll be an enormously damaging midfielder at AFL level.
I just don't know who to omit.
I guess you could make a case for him over Jack but I've gone with the Consensus 22 template and have a defender, a forward, and 2 mids on the bench.
I think we'll opt for experience early, hence both Newman and Newnes feature in my 22 vs the Tigers. But you could certainly argue he'll start over them, particularly Newnes.
He’s going to be a gun.
Obviously had a few struggles last year, but with a full pre-season I think there’s a very good chance he’ll be playing Round 1
Do you see him as a mid forward blend or purely on ball (for the most part) ?
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I think he'll be a mid. This year he'll be the mid that does the most time on the pine, and he'll also do his bit at half forward and even wing. But mainly a rotating mid thru the pine and half forward.
Impact player.
Cheers,
I’m a Dow fan. Many praise Cripps for his game against the lions but Dow in the third was almost sublime and we owe part of the comeback to him. The first centre clearance Neale (Dows direct op) runs out of the middle with the ball. But the next three or four Dow was critical to the ball going our way. Many say his kicking sucks but his evasion and handballs are bloody great.
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I'd be a bit surprised if Dow was in the 22, early days anyway. As a prospect I rate him but based on the football he's produced he's a long long way back and I don't use that lightly. He's got a lot of things to work on and some of those IMO are non-negotiables if we're going to the top. Repeat efforts, pressure acts, possession count, running intensity and kicking are where he is going to be judged on. He needs to demonstrate in games on a consistent basis that he's tidied these areas up before playing seniors.
I think Stocker might be slightly ahead in some aspects although at their stage that one extra season in the system counts for a lot. Stocker is going to have to prove he can run out games and win plenty of the footy as well as the defensive side of things. Hard running and repeat efforts will be his area of watch. I think both players will start in the reserves to build their game. I do think if it's a line ball Stocker gets the nod as he's a better kick.
Their will be focus on these weaker areas and when they improve and their form is good they should push really really hard to break into the side but IMO raw kids no longer get a game with us with a fit list. How long it will take for these guys to break in? How long's a piece of string? Could blitz the preseason comp and be straight in or could steadily build VFL form and be cemented by round 10 or 15. Who knows.
When was the last time we had quality young players with potential in the reserves? We've had a long history of just playing them in the seniors for this very reason. I think we have just got used to that. Great signs but I feel patience with these more raw players coming from further back will be taken. I think it will encourage competitiveness and discourage complacency. No longer are KPIs going to do the job at Carlton, you might be going ok and get replaced by someone better.
We seem to have a few mature players and advanced young players now who don't have much to work on and are decent AFL players. I think these guys start and the younger ones with more aspects of their game to work on have to chase them down.
I think we will need patience as some of these youngsters strive to improve their weaknesses and look to break into the side.
I think the same can be said for O'Brien who needs to demonstrate he's gone to the next level and compete physically and consistently. Fisher who needs to demonstrate he's willing to play hard footy and embrace the physical side of the game. There are a few guys on this list who are reasonable players with high ceilings who need to get closer to that ceiling to get picked which is only a good thing. Will make the reserved worth a watch that's for sure.
I think Stocker might be slightly ahead in some aspects although at their stage that one extra season in the system counts for a lot. Stocker is going to have to prove he can run out games and win plenty of the footy as well as the defensive side of things. Hard running and repeat efforts will be his area of watch. I think both players will start in the reserves to build their game. I do think if it's a line ball Stocker gets the nod as he's a better kick.
Their will be focus on these weaker areas and when they improve and their form is good they should push really really hard to break into the side but IMO raw kids no longer get a game with us with a fit list. How long it will take for these guys to break in? How long's a piece of string? Could blitz the preseason comp and be straight in or could steadily build VFL form and be cemented by round 10 or 15. Who knows.
When was the last time we had quality young players with potential in the reserves? We've had a long history of just playing them in the seniors for this very reason. I think we have just got used to that. Great signs but I feel patience with these more raw players coming from further back will be taken. I think it will encourage competitiveness and discourage complacency. No longer are KPIs going to do the job at Carlton, you might be going ok and get replaced by someone better.
We seem to have a few mature players and advanced young players now who don't have much to work on and are decent AFL players. I think these guys start and the younger ones with more aspects of their game to work on have to chase them down.
I think we will need patience as some of these youngsters strive to improve their weaknesses and look to break into the side.
I think the same can be said for O'Brien who needs to demonstrate he's gone to the next level and compete physically and consistently. Fisher who needs to demonstrate he's willing to play hard footy and embrace the physical side of the game. There are a few guys on this list who are reasonable players with high ceilings who need to get closer to that ceiling to get picked which is only a good thing. Will make the reserved worth a watch that's for sure.
I think that is fair enough and arguable.
But i sort of see it as a bit of impatience from supporters on an individual player basis. We have been viewing and judging these players while they were babies. As we all know here, we have had to do things arse about a bit because of our cleanout to bring in a quantity of young quality. Because of that cleanout we have had to blood every kid virtually too early. But i sort of see the blooding as largely done now.
We saw it with Weitering and Harry, and SPS and Fish, and now Dow and O'Brien. Fans getting skittish on them based on their first 2 years output(not singling you out, just generalising). Then bang Weitering, Harry and SPS announce, as they are now ready to.
Ideally these players may have had early stints in the 2's to ground themselves and find their game a bit. But they've had to do that in the 1's. To keep going with the Dow conversation, if he'd largely done 2 years in the 2's we'd now be screaming that he's ready, but he's had to do it tough and been found out a bit early and we now say he's not ready. As i said, it's a bit arse about because we've had to blood many early. It's been hard for the kids to perform without a larger solid group of elders. But that stage we have now got through. These kids are quickly becoming young men and grown men.
Like Weiters, Harry and SPS, I reckon Fish and Dow and maybe O'Brien are readier to play 1's and their talent is about to shine through.
No free games, but there is still room to play young players with upside who are just about ready to pay the piper. Especially as they aren't THAT young anymore. Can't wait to see Paddy in the praccies to see how he's come on after his first full knacker preseason. I reckon he's got it. He makes things happen. I reckon Diesel, AR and Teague will be working on building his confidence to attack the game more now.
The practice matches are going to be extremely interesting. We have a really fit list and some additions which just increase the depth so things should be competitive.
Backline has gone from just enough quality to having depth in reserve which is great and the midfield will have, at a minimum just enough quality with the likelihood of having good depth.
Weitering demonstrated enough quality games at senior level from the start, he was ready to play a role from the get go. He had some form slumps during his development but for mine he was always pretty close and only really had his physical and mental maturity as main grounds for improvements. A player like Dow has shown glympses and being a high draft pick with some good athletic attributes it's easy to get ahead of ourselves but for mine he's coming from a long way back. He's got a lot of boxes to tick to become AFL standard. Not suggesting that won't happen quickly but it's going to take a pretty big leap to jump ahead or equal our senior midfielders. Murphy, Curnow, Cripps, Walsh and I think Setterfield are going to be top level AFL midfielders. I think we can fit another inside midfielder into that mix but they are going to have to be good and be at that level. That means regular games over 25 possessions, consistent quality pressure acts, ability to run hard from start to finish, good intensity and repeat efforts and a willingness to be hard at the contest and physically strong. For Dow or Stocker to tick those boxes it's a massive step, capable but a really big step for where both are coming from. I think it will happen a little slower than people think. I think some of those boxes will be ticked but not all of them. This in lies the challenge and a challenge to all our midfielders to both keep this up for the established ones and to get there for the young ones.
I just like to look at areas of improvement and if a player has a lot or is a long way behind in these areas then I think development timeframe needs to be tapered off and for me Dow is a long way behind both in the amount of boxes he has to tick and the level he is at in some areas. I expect a bit jump bu it's going to take genuine quality to be in our starting 22 unless there are injuries. I think we have a fairly good group of players who tick all the boxes already and a good group who might join them so competition should be good.
Definitely looking forward to hearing about training and practice matches.
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I understand we cannot fit them all in.
Surprised O’Brien is not in the Consensus 22. When the opposition (Western Bulldogs) says to the TV commentator at half time that O’Brien is the player they have to shut down, then that is saying a lot.
Maybe Newnes gets a start ahead of O’Brien (and Gibbons), I am not entirely sure Fisher does.
Competition for spots is a very good place to be.
Apart from injury, will be very interesting to compare the Consensus 22 with our Round 1 team.
Surprised O’Brien is not in the Consensus 22. When the opposition (Western Bulldogs) says to the TV commentator at half time that O’Brien is the player they have to shut down, then that is saying a lot.
Maybe Newnes gets a start ahead of O’Brien (and Gibbons), I am not entirely sure Fisher does.
Competition for spots is a very good place to be.
Apart from injury, will be very interesting to compare the Consensus 22 with our Round 1 team.
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Assuming no one really wants to go through the process of voting Kreuzer as our ruck and is happy with Levi (25 votes across fwd & def lines) getting the ruck-capable emergency spot...
Starting mids: Cripps (164), Walsh (164), Setterfield (160), Murphy (159), Curnow (158)
Bench mids: Fisher (114), Newnes (53)
Emergency: Gibbons (49)
Honourable mentions: Dow (48), O'Brien (32)
I can now present the 2020 Consensus 22:
*drumroll*
FB: Lachie Plowman (97%), Liam Jones (99%), Kade Simpson (78%)
HB: Sam Docherty (97%), Jacob Weitering (99%), Caleb Marchbank (74%)
FOL: Matthew Kreuzer*, Ed Curnow (96%), Marc Murphy (96%)
C: Sam Walsh (99%), Patrick Cripps (99%), Will Setterfield (97%)
HF: Mitch McGovern (96%), Harry McKay (99%), Jack Martin (94%)
FF: Eddie Betts (98%), Charlie Curnow (97%), David Cuningham (80%)
INT: Sam Petrevski-Seton (63%), Jack Silvagni (53%), Zac Fisher (69%), Jack Newnes (32%)
EMG: Nic Newman (61%), Matthew Kennedy (22%), Michael Gibbons (30%), Levi Casboult*
Honourable mentions: Tom Williamson (DEF 25%), Paddy Dow (MID 29%), Lachie O'Brien (MID 19%)
On field changes from last years Consensus 22:
IN: Sam Docherty, David Cuningham, Jack Silvagni, Jack Martin, Eddie Betts, Jack Newnes
OUT: Nic Newman, Paddy Dow, Matthew Kennedy, Alex Fasolo, Jarrod Pickett, Tom Williamson
Which leaves us with....
Reserve 22:
FB: Harrison Macreadie, Hugh Goddard, Nic Newman
HB: Matt Cottrell, Ben Silvagni, Tom Williamson
FOL: Marc Pittonet, Paddy Dow, Liam Stocker
C: Michael Gibbons, Matthew Kennedy, Lochie O'Brien
HF: Sam Philp, Levi Casboult, Josh Honey
FF: Matt Owies, Tom De Koning, Fraser Phillips
INT: Brodie Kemp, Sam Ramsay, Darcy Lang, Cam Polson, Finbar O'Dwyer (one to be omitted)
Thanks to everyone for contributing. Will be interesting to see how we line up in round 1 compared to this, there will likely be at least 1 change with Charlie unlikely to be available and question marks over McKay & Marchbank. Our listed emergencies might actually be frontrunners for those replacements; Levi, Newman, Gibbons & Kennedy would all be putting their hands up for those potentially vacant spots (not to mention Dow, O'Brien, Willo, Stocker, etc).
Starting mids: Cripps (164), Walsh (164), Setterfield (160), Murphy (159), Curnow (158)
Bench mids: Fisher (114), Newnes (53)
Emergency: Gibbons (49)
Honourable mentions: Dow (48), O'Brien (32)
I can now present the 2020 Consensus 22:
*drumroll*
FB: Lachie Plowman (97%), Liam Jones (99%), Kade Simpson (78%)
HB: Sam Docherty (97%), Jacob Weitering (99%), Caleb Marchbank (74%)
FOL: Matthew Kreuzer*, Ed Curnow (96%), Marc Murphy (96%)
C: Sam Walsh (99%), Patrick Cripps (99%), Will Setterfield (97%)
HF: Mitch McGovern (96%), Harry McKay (99%), Jack Martin (94%)
FF: Eddie Betts (98%), Charlie Curnow (97%), David Cuningham (80%)
INT: Sam Petrevski-Seton (63%), Jack Silvagni (53%), Zac Fisher (69%), Jack Newnes (32%)
EMG: Nic Newman (61%), Matthew Kennedy (22%), Michael Gibbons (30%), Levi Casboult*
Honourable mentions: Tom Williamson (DEF 25%), Paddy Dow (MID 29%), Lachie O'Brien (MID 19%)
On field changes from last years Consensus 22:
IN: Sam Docherty, David Cuningham, Jack Silvagni, Jack Martin, Eddie Betts, Jack Newnes
OUT: Nic Newman, Paddy Dow, Matthew Kennedy, Alex Fasolo, Jarrod Pickett, Tom Williamson
Which leaves us with....
Reserve 22:
FB: Harrison Macreadie, Hugh Goddard, Nic Newman
HB: Matt Cottrell, Ben Silvagni, Tom Williamson
FOL: Marc Pittonet, Paddy Dow, Liam Stocker
C: Michael Gibbons, Matthew Kennedy, Lochie O'Brien
HF: Sam Philp, Levi Casboult, Josh Honey
FF: Matt Owies, Tom De Koning, Fraser Phillips
INT: Brodie Kemp, Sam Ramsay, Darcy Lang, Cam Polson, Finbar O'Dwyer (one to be omitted)
Thanks to everyone for contributing. Will be interesting to see how we line up in round 1 compared to this, there will likely be at least 1 change with Charlie unlikely to be available and question marks over McKay & Marchbank. Our listed emergencies might actually be frontrunners for those replacements; Levi, Newman, Gibbons & Kennedy would all be putting their hands up for those potentially vacant spots (not to mention Dow, O'Brien, Willo, Stocker, etc).
iAsbestos
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I understand we cannot fit them all in.
Surprised O’Brien is not in the Consensus 22. When the opposition (Western Bulldogs) says to the TV commentator at half time that O’Brien is the player they have to shut down, then that is saying a lot.
O' Brien killed Hunter that night
iAsbestos
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JuddgementDay
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Thanks for the efforts
Nice team!
A few name changes & suddenly the 2020 looks faster & more balanced
Also, apart from Fasolo & Pickett; the other players were pushed out by better players - that's a great sign
I didn’t see that half time interview!! Do you remember what it was he was doing that they wanted to shut down? (Also what bulldogs game?)
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I think he is absolutely good enough. Hopefully he gets his confidence back after being thrust into the thick of things under BB. It looks like he has taken his fitness up a few notches , and so it should be in his third year. Confidence is key. He only sees NB action if his confidence is down. One of DT's early jobs is to get him back playing dynamic footy
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I think it gives us the luxury of leaving out anyone carrying niggles. In times past we were constantly bringing players back in too early. Hopefully not any more
Williamson, dow and LOB should all get a game before Cuningham
Dow has some areas of concerns TW, although, much the same for most young players
I see him as only a mid, so unless he improves his first touch and kicking, he may need some time at the lower level
In would have said Dow and Williamson but not so sure any more.
That may well change in weeks to come, but right now -
Williamson is still on the road back and wouldn't be fighting Cuningham for a spot in the team, anyway.
Dow just hasn't looked particularly good to me yet. Pains me to say it, but it's true. The spark doesn't seem to be there, but it is too early to say for sure.
O'Brien looks O.K. but has had the 'Schumachers' when watching him - Kicking action looks good, but the kicks aren't hitting targets.
Cuningham is far superior to any of the other three for a forward spot. That may be the main difference in him getting games.
One is a defender, one is a wing, one is a mid, Cuningham is forward. Explain your post.
Just on Cunningham, had some info on him passed on. His ceiling is expected to be extremely high.
Needs continuity of games but his ability to know the drop of the ball and clean hands makes him a rare commodity. As I was told, 'you just can't teach it, he just keeps getting better, I would be expecting him to be a special player by years end'.
My comment, 'big call'. Response 'there is always one that jumps out of the pack and he is the one'...
Source, I'll say the boot studder!
Needs continuity of games but his ability to know the drop of the ball and clean hands makes him a rare commodity. As I was told, 'you just can't teach it, he just keeps getting better, I would be expecting him to be a special player by years end'.
My comment, 'big call'. Response 'there is always one that jumps out of the pack and he is the one'...
Source, I'll say the boot studder!
iAsbestos
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Lmao wot?
