2020 Formula One

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Admiral Byng

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So the fact that others can’t, or are unable, to gather sponsors to compete are a reason to again criticise Mercedes?
And to be clear, I’m a McLaren fan, but I can’t abide this Merc hate when the other teams haven’t stepped up.
And of course in the same era of Merc dominance Ferrari, the most recognised name in F1 and therefore in a position to gather a big war chest, couldn’t compete is another indictment on the opposition, not on Mercedes.
Its bloody boring watching Mercedes win title and WC championships for getting on a decade, but it’s up to others to take the fight to them.
Just like it’s up to 17 AFL teams to take it up to Richmond next year.
A privateer team trying to sell sponsors a dream is no match for a fully backed factory team. When Mercedes launched the team they did it with their own money. Formula 1 is just so complex now that the days of privateer teams being at the front end of the field and covering their costs with sponsors and the income distribution model are long gone. Teams need a supply of money from outside of the sport, like a factory backing that will spend million after million without blinking, or a multi-billion dollar multinational like Red Bull. Sponsorships and revenue distributions only favour the top teams, once a team drops into the back half of the grid on a regular basis these revenue streams diminish even faster and the team drops off a cliff, unless they have an external source of money to prop them up again.
 

DamoESP

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Neale4brownlow

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Its not just money, the FIA/FOM have hamstrung the other teams and prevented them from being able to catch up as easily as they would have in previous generations by putting rules in place like development tokens, limited in season testing etc.
Agree,

Also there needs to be more regulation of when teams can begin spending on next year.
My understanding is Merecede's had stopped advancement of the 2020 car long ago and have already begun spending some of this years budget on the 2021 car.

Which then doiminoes into 2021, as they'll once again have a clear dominance from the start and can quickly shift focus to the 2022 car before the budget clamps come down.

Hopefully they tweak the ruling on this, as Merc (or anyone) really should not be able to spend any budget from the prior year to develop next years car (it should come out of the budget for that year, otherwise what is the point in salary caps?)
 

Neale4brownlow

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Admiral Byng

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What a convoluted rule.

So you're allowed to copy it, just don't use technology to fast-track the copy.
Yeah, it is a step backwards I reckon.

It means that every team has to spend money just developing the basic components of the car. In an ideal world the lesser teams would get a starter pack kit, or be able to pool their resources to develop one they share in common, and then spend their limited development resources tweaking it. Just my thoughts.
 

Neale4brownlow

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Yeah, it is a step backwards I reckon.

It means that every team has to spend money just developing the basic components of the car. In an ideal world the lesser teams would get a starter pack kit, or be able to pool their resources to develop one they share in common, and then spend their limited development resources tweaking it. Just my thoughts.
That's my first thought too.

But I guess playing devils advocate, the sport and all of it's teams need to stand on their own two feet to survive.

If the lower teams rely on feeding off the advances of Mercedes, then what happens if/when Mercedes pull out of the sport? It'd be a disaster.

So this is probably the right move for the sport longer term.
 

juice t

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A privateer team trying to sell sponsors a dream is no match for a fully backed factory team. When Mercedes launched the team they did it with their own money. Formula 1 is just so complex now that the days of privateer teams being at the front end of the field and covering their costs with sponsors and the income distribution model are long gone. Teams need a supply of money from outside of the sport, like a factory backing that will spend million after million without blinking, or a multi-billion dollar multinational like Red Bull. Sponsorships and revenue distributions only favour the top teams, once a team drops into the back half of the grid on a regular basis these revenue streams diminish even faster and the team drops off a cliff, unless they have an external source of money to prop them up again.
The days of tobacco money are long gone
 

Simon_Nesbit

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That's my first thought too.

But I guess playing devils advocate, the sport and all of it's teams need to stand on their own two feet to survive.

If the lower teams rely on feeding off the advances of Mercedes, then what happens if/when Mercedes pull out of the sport? It'd be a disaster.

So this is probably the right move for the sport longer term.
Agree. Exactly what I'd like to see in 2022.

Tier 1 - Marque Teams (4) - Design both Chassis and Engine
Mercedes
Red Bull "Honda"
Ferrari
Renault

Tier 2 - Independents (8) - Design Chassis, Imported Engine
Racing Point (Mercedes)
McLaren (Honda)
Alfa Romeo (Ferrari)
Williams (Mercedes)
Alpha Tauri (Honda)
Haas (Ferrari)

Tier 3 - Customer Teams (8) - Purchase Prior Year Base Vehicle, Purchase Prior Year Engine* - 1 car teams (eg GP2 teams)
ART (Ferrari)
Prema (Ferrari)
Virtuosi (Renault)
Hitech (Renault)
Carlin (Honda)
...

Make qualifying actually count for something.
 

Admiral Byng

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That's my first thought too.

But I guess playing devils advocate, the sport and all of it's teams need to stand on their own two feet to survive.

If the lower teams rely on feeding off the advances of Mercedes, then what happens if/when Mercedes pull out of the sport? It'd be a disaster.

So this is probably the right move for the sport longer term.
The thing is, sponsors are only willing to pay certain price, After a while they will start to look at other sporting events and think can we get better exposure for our brand by sponsoring a football team or some other sport? F1 needs to be careful it doesn't price itself out of the market for sponsorship. They are in competition for sponsors with other sports. Sponsorships are a scarce resource.
 

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Admiral Byng

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what do people think about the proposed 24 meet program?
Way too long for mine. It really means on average one race every fortnight with only a 4 week break for Christmas. Squeezing it into any shorter time span mean lots of double and triple headers. Taxing on the drivers, taxing on the crews. They are talking about having a reserve crew to do some races in the middle leg of a triple-header, but that just means more costs. Teams now have to pay two crews. So much for capping costs.
 

Black_White

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what do people think about the proposed 24 meet program?
If I paid what Liberty paid for F1, then had the seasons revenue basically written off, I’d be trying to recover as much as possible as soon as possible.
The teams, if they want the cash cow to continue, will just have to suck it up.
 

Not Important

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Way too long for mine. It really means on average one race every fortnight with only a 4 week break for Christmas. Squeezing it into any shorter time span mean lots of double and triple headers. Taxing on the drivers, taxing on the crews. They are talking about having a reserve crew to do some races in the middle leg of a triple-header, but that just means more costs. Teams now have to pay two crews. So much for capping costs.
agree. they'll kill the goose that laid the golden egg if they aren't careful. don't like the alternating venue proposal either.
 

Black_White

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Hearing sir Lewis Hamilton next year is going to be so annoying

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A modern big screen TV has a button on the remote labelled “mute”.
In fact even a lot of old school CRT TV’s have the same remote capability.
Why do you need to hear Sir Lewis?
 

Neale4brownlow

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So what's everyones vibe with Redbull Albon Versus Perez?

A few weeks ago I was 90% certain Albon's seat was beyong saving.

It seems to have steadied a bit the past couple of races.

With only a few races left, is it now 50/50 and Albon's seat to lose? Given they've left it this late I'm thinking Albon might just hold his spot.
 

jabba5114

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A modern big screen TV has a button on the remote labelled “mute”.
In fact even a lot of old school CRT TV’s have the same remote capability.
Why do you need to hear Sir Lewis?
Just easier not to watch the races. Havent watched a full race for a couple years now anyway

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Neale4brownlow

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Just easier not to watch the races. Havent watched a full race for a couple years now anyway

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I've watched every race this year for the first time in probably a decade.
I've found it pretty good actually.
You definitely need to remove yourself from watching the Mercs though. Chalk them up to 1st and 2nd before the race starts, and just watch the battle for the real first place (3rd). It's been a really even year other than the Mercs.
 

Black_White

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I've watched every race this year for the first time in probably a decade.
I've found it pretty good actually.
You definitely need to remove yourself from watching the Mercs though. Chalk them up to 1st and 2nd before the race starts, and just watch the battle for the real first place (3rd). It's been a really even year other than the Mercs.
It’s a bit like removing yourself from watching Richmond this year, and last.
The battle for the minor places has been fascinating in the AFL as well.
My only enjoyment from the last few years was the big American in one match 2018.
Wouldve been a four peat otherwise.
Very Merc like.
 

jabba5114

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It’s a bit like removing yourself from watching Richmond this year, and last.
The battle for the minor places has been fascinating in the AFL as well.
My only enjoyment from the last few years was the big American in one match 2018.
Wouldve been a four peat otherwise.
Very Merc like.
Wrestling is the same for me. Stopped watching that too

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Klyntonius

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It’s a bit like removing yourself from watching Richmond this year, and last.
The battle for the minor places has been fascinating in the AFL as well.
My only enjoyment from the last few years was the big American in one match 2018.
Wouldve been a four peat otherwise.
Very Merc like.
Watching AFL this year was more like watching the Hyundai Excel Cup.
 

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