List Mgmt. 2020 List Management II

[SurreyBlue]

so you think with Fishers build he will put on 8-10kg over the next 5 years and become an inside midfielder like everyone you just mentioned? rofl.

Did I say just inside??? I don't believe Kelly for instance is just inside but yes, I think Fisher has all the attributes to be a great midfielder and he can be a great asset to our current group of Cripps, Setterfield, Kennedy, Walsh, Dow, SpS, Stocker, etc. as part of the 'rotations' - yes.

ps. I also expect to see more muscle tone on him - yes again.

 

[scblues]

Betts, Murphy, Simmo, Krooz

They won't be around when we are a contender, let's start to play players that may

Fine in theory... BUT your missing the big mental side.. for example.. Betts or Murphy can teach while they are playing which is different from teaching as a coach etc.. Also making sure others push those players out is critical to developing the right attitude required at this level.. Just because those players arent in the team come the 'premiership' doesnt mean they are not valuable in many many other ways..

 

[chunkylover53]

Did I say just inside??? I don't believe Kelly for instance is just inside but yes, I think Fisher has all the attributes to be a great midfielder and he can be a great asset to our current group of Cripps, Setterfield, Kennedy, Walsh, Dow, SpS, Stocker, etc. as part of the 'rotations' - yes.

ps. I also expect to see more muscle tone on him - yes again.

given his height he is 2-3kg off playing weight. i wouldn't want him to be gaining much more or else he will lose his leg-speed.

as i said several times, he can rotate through the midfield sure, but due to his size and playing style he will be our predominant small forward, a bloody good one at that.

 

[mochacinolatte]

given his height he is 2-3kg off playing weight. i wouldn't want him to be gaining much more or else he will lose his leg-speed.

as i said several times, he can rotate through the midfield sure, but due to his size and playing style he will be our predominant small forward, a bloody good one at that.

To be fair, he has put a lot of weight in 4 years.

This is his draft profile.

2016 AFL Draft prospects: Zac Fisher

With the draft less than a week away, get to know all of this year's top prospects with our 2016 AFL Draft profiles.

www.zerohanger.com

Drafted at 61kg. Even if you watch games now he still has leg speed. So I doubt putting additonal 4 kg over the next 2 or 3 years gonna be any challenge.

 

[Doro]

If we had a quality small forward on the list, we don't get Eddie back in a playing role to begin with. A lot of sulking that he's cooked, it's not like we all didn't know he was nearing the end.

 

[Siladee]

Just got the simmo retirement email. Flat.

 

[Arr0w]

There was absolutely no harm in playing Betts this year.
Who did he keep out? Owies? Honey?

Fact was we didn't have anyone better.
Fisher hasn't fared any better than Betts anyway and he's a class above other smalls we used forward....and he didn't want to play forward anyway (surprise, surprise, for a player having their preferred role)

Said it many times already and it will prove itself to be the case - Not all players can adapt to new roles and we'll see this play out even more-so next year, given we have to juggle and find homes for......you know....all those mids.

That's not a complaint per se, as it will be interesting how we manage all our young talent but I do know this; We don't manage them well, we'll ruin some.

Harks, we have had the debate about labeling players, remember Martin only being a forward? So let's move on from that for good. Also staggers me when i see "who did he keep out", more labeling. While I am not saying Fisher should remain a small forward, I did state prior to the last trade period that he could be used in the role and right now his stats are comparable with Eddie. One has the chance to continue to improve, the other doesn't

As for players not playing their preferred role, let it go as it has been disproved, but you just don't want to see it

Sorry to quote you but if we are ahead of Brisbane's rebuild as you keep telling us then we are going to be top 4 next year at the least.

If that's the case and Eddie plays on he will be around.

Little bit of tongue in cheek there.

But to go back to my original question, who plays Fishers role if he plays Eddies?

Lions also never played with the number of senior players we do. A sprinkle, sure, but only if they are performing considerably better than a younger version. That would be different if we are a flag contender, but we are not. If Fisher plays that role, you shift everyone down a line. We have a number of players that play HF/HHF rotaing around the stoppages. Cuners, Gibbons, Honey, Philp, Newnes

Fine in theory... BUT your missing the big mental side.. for example.. Betts or Murphy can teach while they are playing which is different from teaching as a coach etc.. Also making sure others push those players out is critical to developing the right attitude required at this level.. Just because those players arent in the team come the 'premiership' doesnt mean they are not valuable in many many other ways..

Sorry but just not seeing how Murphy and Betts are teaching the players the right habits, but none of us know. If it was me, I would advise both players they are no longer best 22 next year and will only be played if form and injury requires them to be selected

 

[DirkDiggler]

Does anyone think the culture at Carlton is strong enough to drop Murphy a former captain should his form drop?

 

[Metalcrusher]

Does anyone think the culture at Carlton is strong enough to drop Murphy a former captain should his form drop?

Nope, while he is there and not injured he will play every week.

 

[HARKER]

Harks, we have had the debate about labeling players, remember Martin only being a forward? So let's move on from that for good. Also staggers me when i see "who did he keep out", more labeling. While I am not saying Fisher should remain a small forward, I did state prior to the last trade period that he could be used in the role and right now his stats are comparable with Eddie. One has the chance to continue to improve, the other doesn't

As for players not playing their preferred role, let it go as it has been disproved, but you just don't want to see it




Lions also never played with the number of senior players we do. A sprinkle, sure, but only if they are performing considerably better than a younger version. That would be different if we are a flag contender, but we are not. If Fisher plays that role, you shift everyone down a line. We have a number of players that play HF/HHF rotaing around the stoppages. Cuners, Gibbons, Honey, Philp, Newnes



Sorry but just not seeing how Murphy and Betts are teaching the players the right habits, but none of us know. If it was me, I would advise both players they are no longer best 22 next year and will only be played if form and injury requires them to be selected

Unbelievable......you see it, but choose not to believe it and then demand others to let go. Weird.
I'll choose to have this discussion with others as things show up, to which I know they will. That's OK.

Shift everyone down the line you say? When not just go to the source and fix it there, instead of rearranging the whole table?

I never mentioned Murphy. Was discussing Betts.

 

[mochacinolatte]

Does anyone think the culture at Carlton is strong enough to drop Murphy a former captain should his form drop?

Nope on the contary belief, he still best 22.

Pretty much how a rebuild should have unfolded, slowly the seniors fading out and young guys taking over spots.

2019 - Matt Lobbe, Dale Thomas
2020 - Kade Simpson, Kreuzer
2021 - Betts/Murphy (If Murphy has legs I can see him going into 2022)

 

[Pablito]

I suspect Betts may stay on now. If it's not announced this week it's pretty much guaranteed.

 

[Elmer_Hauser]

Nope on the contary belief, he still best 22.

Pretty much how a rebuild should have unfolded, slowly the seniors fading out and young guys taking over spots.

2019 - Matt Lobbe, Dale Thomas
2020 - Kade Simpson, Kreuzer
2021 - Betts/Murphy (If Murphy has legs I can see him going into 2022)

On this year's form, Murphy only gets jnto best 22 because of our sadly lack of depth, quality young kids coming through the ranks.

No one can deny Murphy has been a great player for the club, but I would submit to an objective audience that he is borderline cooked.

2021 should be his swansong.

 

[Arr0w]

Unbelievable......you see it, but choose not to believe it and then demand others to let go. Weird.
I'll choose to have this discussion with others as things show up, to which I know they will. That's OK.

Shift everyone down the line you say? When not just go to the source and fix it there, instead of rearranging the whole table?

I never mentioned Murphy. Was discussing Betts.

You do you Harks, but if you respond to my posts with this "players playing the role they were drafted" or "We will lose best 22 players/midfielders because we can't fit them in" I will either call it out or ask you to add new evidence

Less than 1-2 players out of 800 odd leave a club each year, considered to be best 22 and being best 22 at a new club, But if you want to go with your theories great

Regarding Fisher, perhaps go back to my initial post on the matter " Unless we bring in a suitable replacement, it won't be an area of decline if we had to use fish in that role"

 

[Juddrockz]

Simmos hung up the boots. Well done champ! Such a quiet achiever.
Zac Williams come on down??!!

 

[Pablito]

Simmos hung up the boots. Well done champ! Such a quiet achiever.
Zac Williams come on down??!!

Wouldn't be opposed to it but we also have Nic Newman. I'd rather the money be spent in the middle or on a small forward.

 

[mochacinolatte]

On this year's form, Murphy only gets jnto best 22 because of our sadly lack of depth, quality young kids coming through the ranks.

No one can deny Murphy has been a great player for the club, but I would submit to an objective audience that he is borderline cooked.

2021 should be his swansong.

If Murphy has an really good 2021 he should be playing in 2022 if warrants as pointed out we lacked depth.

To further expand my point.

2018 - Sam Rowe (31) - Weitering (20) - Weitering was having a poor 3rd year, Sam Rowe was there to take off some heat.
2019 - Dale Thomas (32) - Covering and providing leadership when Docherty was down with his 2nd ACL and providing compsure with a young backline. Matt Lobbe (30) - Helping the ruck division in the 2's with TDK.
2020 - Kade Simpson (36) - Newman probably cover his role. Kreuzuer (31) - Should of been protecting TDK as he is still raw.

I would assume Eddie Betts and Marc Murphy are still there is help mentor the new small forward division and Murphy taking pressure off the young midfield brigrade.

 

[Elmer_Hauser]

Wouldn't be opposed to it but we also have Nic Newman. I'd rather the money be spent in the middle or on a small forward.

Williams can play in the middle/wing so there is no problem from that perspective

 

[HARKER]

You do you Harks, but if you respond to my posts with this "players playing the role they were drafted" or "We will lose best 22 players/midfielders because we can't fit them in" I will either call it out or ask you to add new evidence

Less than 1-2 players out of 800 odd leave a club each year, considered to be best 22 and being best 22 at a new club, But if you want to go with your theories great

Regarding Fisher, perhaps go back to my initial post on the matter " Unless we bring in a suitable replacement, it won't be an area of decline if we had to use fish in that role"

Did you hear that we may have found life on Venus? Exciting isn't it?

All good. People see things differently and I'll always back my perspective over others' perspectives until proven unequivocally wrong.
I have a funny feeling that we'll see a few interesting things in coming weeks......until then....

 

[bigm386]

Now that Simpson and Kruzer have retired. I will be very surprised if Betts goes on in 2021.

In reality we have little depth at small forward, but from what I have seen of Betts this year he has had opportunities to impact the game on the scoreboard and has struggled. Has been very fumbly and seems to be a step behind.

Now I am not saying a kid or another player would come in and take those opportunities necessarily. But I do believe we need to allow a player to develop in that role at AFL level with the potential of being around when we are hopefully challenging for number 17.

If Betts stayed on the list as a coach as a bit of a soft cap dodge that would make sense. I think this happened with Mumford prior to him returning from retirement?

But outside of that I don't see Betts as best 22 moving forward.

 

[DirkDiggler]

Nope on the contary belief, he still best 22.

Pretty much how a rebuild should have unfolded, slowly the seniors fading out and young guys taking over spots.

2019 - Matt Lobbe, Dale Thomas
2020 - Kade Simpson, Kreuzer
2021 - Betts/Murphy (If Murphy has legs I can see him going into 2022)

Even if we were to land Williams? You still think he is a first choice wingman?

 

[ABigOlDoofus]

Wouldn't be opposed to it but we also have Nic Newman. I'd rather the money be spent in the middle or on a small forward.

Zac Williams is also a gun mid, just hasn't had the opportunity to show it much at GWS.

 

[mochacinolatte]

Even if we were to land Williams? You still think he is a first choice wingman?

Based on form this year, yes.

If anything I can see this happening.

Williamson -> Williams.
SPS -> Midfield
Walsh -> Wing.
Newman -> Half Back.

But I don't know how Teague want to appraoach this.

 

[Pablito]

Zac Williams is also a gun mid, just hasn't had the opportunity to show it much at GWS.

Good point. As the other comments above note I could see him on a wing also and have Walsh play out of the centre square.

 

[Elmer_Hauser]

Let Betts go one for one more year (even if only to make sure his sons nominate us for F/S If they are good enough)

Small Fowards do not grow on trees at any rate.