List Mgmt. 2020 List Management

[HereComesJuddy]

Just like Cameron Cloke?

Nothing's beyond the realms of possibility.

Nope. Not at all. Their dad thought he ran the joint. It fell apart and the kids weren't up to it.

 

[Gethelred]

Looking how cerra Brayshaw serong been playing in the middle last few weeks -- our young mids either are very limited - or our development and midfield staff are very poor ..

Or they went for bigger bodied types - of which all three qualify - and we went for smaller bodies with higher ceilings. LOB has more capacity to run and much, much better kicking than any of those three. Dow is faster, more dynamic, and has the capacity to be impossible to stop. SPS (while NOT A BACKMAN!!!) can thread a needle with a football with either foot and/or by hand, and has done so. Fish is faster and has better AFL performances than any of those three.

I get the idea that we could've gone for these types. It's something I've brought up before a few times, when we've been debating our rebuild's course; whether we should've gotten rid of so many KPP's, and whether we should've sought to keep a few of the players we opted to trade to supplement what kids we could've gotten in instead. But I will not constantly live in hindsight, regretting decisions that were made on available evidence, and the available evidence in 2015 demonstrated that going for these readymade types results in teams doing what Melbourne did - falter on the rocks - and what St Kilda did - revert when Riewoldt and Montagna retired. They had too many samey types, and were too limited in terms of top tier players; lists full of good B-B+ players, but nothing even approaching A+ in sight.

We are not done building, either. This is five years in. From inception of rebuild to premiership, it took WB and Hawthorn 8 seasons, and everyone else 10-12. Now we can look to our mix, and to our coaching. We have quite clearly started to see results from Kennedy and Setterfield; let's see if Dow and O'brien can match them in a year or two.

 

[Jeremias]

Wonder if Hawthorn felt the same about Josh Kennedy.

They have a surplus of small forwards and can't afford to overpay, especially with Moore and De Geoy looking for lucrative deals.

Their salary cap is bursting at the seams.

The same Josh Kennedy who played 13 games in 3 seasons and not once broke into Hawthorn's best side?

He left for opportunity, not for money.

They may have a surplus of small forwards but he's not a small forward, and he'd be preferred to every single one of them you mentioned previously.

Their salary cap may be bursting but they will get rid of plenty of players over the next year or two. They're certainly not making room in the cap by trading out one of if not the best kid they have, who happens to be the son of club royalty.

 

[Eiffel 65]

Elliott, Beams, Dunn, Mayne, Varcoe, Greenwood and Reid will all be off their list over the next 2 years. They would have front ended a lot of contracts already. They will find a way

Well I don't know the contract status of all their players, but I can tell you that it was reported on Fox Footy that Taylor Adams and Tom Phillips signed massively back ended contracts. They were struggling at the time to fit both of these players in their cap.

Elliot is 27 so he'll be around for a fair while longer. Dunn, Varcoe, Greenwood and Reid would all be on relatively modest pay packets.

A bit might open up with Beams and Mayne, but that could be quickly offset by players coming off rookie contracts, including Isaac Quaynor and Will Kelly.

Another thing to note is De Goey took a pay cut in his last contract to stay at Collingwood. It was a massive talking point two years ago about whether he should accept a multi-million dollar contract from a team like North to set up his future. They can't low ball him this time.

Moore will be an AA fullback, and should be paid accordingly.

Plus Grundy's contract = cap squeeze.

AFL 2019: Taylor Adams signs new deal to remain at Collingwood

Pies confirm big new contract for gun midfielder

www.foxsports.com.au

 

[Jimmyonesix]

Or they went for bigger bodied types - of which all three qualify - and we went for smaller bodies with higher ceilings. LOB has more capacity to run and much, much better kicking than any of those three. Dow is faster, more dynamic, and has the capacity to be impossible to stop. SPS (while NOT A BACKMAN!!!) can thread a needle with a football with either foot and/or by hand, and has done so. Fish is faster and has better AFL performances than any of those three.

I get the idea that we could've gone for these types. It's something I've brought up before a few times, when we've been debating our rebuild's course; whether we should've gotten rid of so many KPP's, and whether we should've sought to keep a few of the players we opted to trade to supplement what kids we could've gotten in instead. But I will not constantly live in hindsight, regretting decisions that were made on available evidence, and the available evidence in 2015 demonstrated that going for these readymade types results in teams doing what Melbourne did - falter on the rocks - and what St Kilda did - revert when Riewoldt and Montagna retired. They had too many samey types, and were too limited in terms of top tier players; lists full of good B-B+ players, but nothing even approaching A+ in sight.

We are not done building, either. This is five years in. From inception of rebuild to premiership, it took WB and Hawthorn 8 seasons, and everyone else 10-12. Now we can look to our mix, and to our coaching. We have quite clearly started to see results from Kennedy and Setterfield; let's see if Dow and O'brien can match them in a year or two.

I get all that but none of ours other than setterfield (still Low possesion efficiency numbers )has developed into a starting mid-- and Murphy curnow don't stack up to Mundy Walters and fyfe ..
agreed it will take time but Cunningham 5 th year Fischer sps in fourth year(played a fair amount of football ) dow O'Brien in third .. behind very average players .. Kennedy can't buy a clearance seems better half forward ..
Hopefully with Luke power this will improve ..

 

[ABigOlDoofus]

Yea, I really rate him too, but I certainly don't think he's zero chance of leaving.

If you offered 4 years x 400k, I'm not convinced Collingwood would be able to offer anything close to that in order to retain him.

The other thing is they have a few of his type. Elliot, Stephenson, WHE, Thomas, the Brown brothers plus another Daicos coming through the system. Despite having a breakout year, he could be seen as an expendable player.

The difference between earning $200k and $400k with greater contract security means a lot more to someone than the difference between $800k to $1m. Money talks.

Would only cost a 2nd rounder.

Just some food for thought.

Let me put it this way, I bleed blue despite seeing absolutely 0 success during my lifetime because my Dad is such a mad supporter and raised me on the Blues. I can't imagine the connection Josh feels to Collingwood when his Dad probably raised him the same, PLUS his Dad is arguably the greatest player to ever play for that club. An extra 200k is nice, but money isn't everything, especially in a situation like this.

 

[FitzroyBlueBagger]

I’m a bit of a rap for Cedric Cox liked him in his draft year, quick skilled ball user and ball carrier can play defense wing forward... Nth Ballarat boy originally from Halls Creek #22 2015 draft 23yrs only 13 games 184cm 83kg good foot smarts, great tackler good one on one and overhead... Kicked four goals from 15 possessions in the QFL grand final last year, has the likes of Cameron Zorko and others keeping him out atm... wouldn’t cost much good age thinking small defender or pressure forward...

 

[Gethelred]

I get all that but none of ours other than setterfield (still Low possesion efficiency numbers )has developed into a starting mid-- and Murphy curnow don't stack up to Mundy Walters and fyfe ..
agreed it will take time but Cunningham 5 th year Fischer sps in fourth year(played a fair amount of football ) dow O'Brien in third .. behind very average players .. Kennedy can't buy a clearance seems better half forward ..
Hopefully with Luke power this will improve ..

Setters and Kennedy have played as starting mids the last 3 weeks, and while it hasn't worked the whole time it's certainly worked better than it has for the past 5 years.

This is the next stage; finding out what parts make the best whole.

 

[smashbox gill]

Steven May is 193cm Who does he play on?

Not suggesting that Moore could make it either way, but he has no home at this club ahead of our front line forwards.
It's back or bust, with bust being far more likely but he's no forward and again - It's easier for someone who has played forward to become a backman, than it is for a failed backman to become a forward.

Has no place anywhere near the backline as well. Will be suprised if hes on the list at years end. Would rather continue developing BSOS while also potentially getting Marchy to put on some size to play KPD

 

[smashbox gill]

Someone who woulda been perfect to bring over for the small forward role prior to this year would have been Shai Bolton, but looks like he's now cemented his spot and flourishing at the tigers

 

[HARKER]

Setters and Kennedy have played as starting mids the last 3 weeks, and while it hasn't worked the whole time it's certainly worked better than it has for the past 5 years.

This is the next stage; finding out what parts make the best whole.

I think most know the answer to that.

It's all been made so much more difficult this year though, for - injury, shortened season, no VFL games, mainly pointless scratch matches and for our club more so than most other clubs, given we didn't really know what our best team looked like at the start of the season.
Liddle alluded to this last week, didn't he, when stating something like, 'we may have what we need in our own back yard'

Again, I think we'll simply have to go and get what we need for the now and if we double up, then bad luck.

Has no place anywhere near the backline as well. Will be suprised if hes on the list at years end. Would rather continue developing BSOS while also potentially getting Marchy to put on some size to play KPD

He's highly unlikely to remain on the list although I still think he'd make for a better back-man than Goddard and likely BSilvagni....and we do need a tall, mobile backman. Anyway, it won't happen. All much too late for any trials this late in this year.

 

[Blue__Balls]

I’m a bit of a rap for Cedric Cox liked him in his draft year, quick skilled ball user and ball carrier can play defense wing forward... Nth Ballarat boy originally from Halls Creek #22 2015 draft 23yrs only 13 games 184cm 83kg good foot smarts, great tackler good one on one and overhead... Kicked four goals from 15 possessions in the QFL grand final last year, has the likes of Cameron Zorko and others keeping him out atm... wouldn’t cost much good age thinking small defender or pressure forward...

Good spot.

Would be a smart pickup for the backline I reckon.

Still prefer Witherden, myself. We're using SPS to try and set up corridor play from the back half, which is fine, but he only ever kicks it 20-30m which makes it predictable (might be why our ball movement stagnates after qtr time in most games). Witherden can hit pinpoint passes over 50m, and keeps the kick relatively low to make it harder to defend.

But given Witherden is back in the seniors, he'll likely come at a higher cost. Cox could be a very astute grab for very little cost.

 

[Bluebag13]

What would we have to give up to get patrick lipinski?
He is a quality player, can hit the scoreboard has decent speed and agility, and a good user. Would be instantly best 22.

 

[Kramer1]

They would part ways with all of them before Daicos.

It's a nice fantasy, but in reality he is anything but expendable. They'd view him as untouchable.

And his dad is old school. Hates us with a passion.

 

[Mezzoculo]

Wonder if Hawthorn felt the same about Josh Kennedy.

They have a surplus of small forwards and can't afford to overpay, especially with Moore and De Geoy looking for lucrative deals.

Their salary cap is bursting at the seams.

Daicos has taken Phillips role on a wing, he's not playing as a small forward.

Reckon Phillips could be the one to target given he's not playing well in a position he isn't familiar with (half fwd). He's in a similar position to Toby McLean at the Dogs - being asked to play in positions that don't suit their skills (same with James Harmes at the Dees).

 

[Mezzoculo]

What would we have to give up to get patrick lipinski?
He is a quality player, can hit the scoreboard has decent speed and agility, and a good user. Would be instantly best 22.

Dogs fan growing up and seen by the dogs as more flexible than McLean. Reckon it would be tough to get him out.

 

[HARKER]

In normal circumstances at this time of the year, we have a pretty good idea of principle trade targets - Not so this year.

Papley - All The Swans have to do is to say no and all bets are off.
Williams - GWS won't want to let him go. They may be better served to lose a quality midfielder or two than to lose Williams
BCrouch - I just don't see it. He's not a 'the difference' player for us and being a free hit isn't good enough a reason.

Starting to feel that our targets may yet come from unexpected areas.

 

[Blue Pulse]

And his dad is old school. Hates us with a passion.

He actually use to take one of his boys to watch Carlton play, the son was a huge Fev fan, I saw them a few times at Ethiad

 

[DangerousD]

It just makes sense.

They have too many who would be demanding too much money to be able to really go deep into their pockets for yet another small/medium forward. Daicos is small, loves a tackle, knows where they are; he has similar attributes to Papley, except unlike Papley he's not going to cost anything near a first rounder.

Either we make them pay through the nose and they have to offload someone to keep him - it'd be interesting trying to get a hold of Tom Phillips too, we need a winger - or we wind up getting a cheap young alternative who will slot straight in.

Like Papley, he is contracted if I’m not mistaken.
So if for some reason he decided he wants to come play for us, there is no way Collingwood will accept a 2nd round pick in the late 20s.

 

[DangerousD]

I’m a bit of a rap for Cedric Cox liked him in his draft year, quick skilled ball user and ball carrier can play defense wing forward... Nth Ballarat boy originally from Halls Creek #22 2015 draft 23yrs only 13 games 184cm 83kg good foot smarts, great tackler good one on one and overhead... Kicked four goals from 15 possessions in the QFL grand final last year, has the likes of Cameron Zorko and others keeping him out atm... wouldn’t cost much good age thinking small defender or pressure forward...

Ive seen his name mentioned a few times, but he is 23 and played 13 games, a side that has been down the bottom for 3 of those years. If he can’t find his way in to that team into one of the 4 spots for a small/medium defender, the 4 spots for a small/medium forward, the wing or the bench, I’m not sure how he will be in front of the 6 or so first round draftees we have waiting on our list.

 

[Gethelred]

Like Papley, he is contracted if I’m not mistaken.
So if for some reason he decided he wants to come play for us, there is no way Collingwood will accept a 2nd round pick in the late 20s.

If you got him wanting to come to us, offering him 400 thousand a year as Eiffel 65 suggested, it depends then on what picks we have available and what is the lowest they'd be willing to accept.

Probably not pick 30+, but pick 25 or lower should get the job done.

 

[DangerousD]

Lots of talk of getting players like Lipinski, Daicos, Bolton, Phillips to switch clubs to the Blies, but then followed by poor offers draft pick wise and nothing special $$$$ wise.

It is a total different scenario than recruiting a player who isn’t getting an opportunity, if you want to poach someone who is getting a game regularly, you need to offer something substantially better than what they are on, you then actually have to make it worth while for the club.

If we want a Bolton, we need to offer $200,000 plis more than what’s he’s on, why would he leave a club like Richmond while they are contending for anything less?

Lipinski a supposed Dogs fan, is in the best side, the dogs are there about, if we want him, get serious.

Daicos for $400,000, how much do you think he will get on his next deal at the Pies? It won’t be much lower.

If we want to target a a gun kid, where another club has done all the hard work, we need to pay up, we aren’t shopping in the bargain bin anymore.

 

[DangerousD]

If you got him wanting to come to us, offering him 400 thousand a year as Eiffel 65 suggested, it depends then on what picks we have available and what is the lowest they'd be willing to accept.

Probably not pick 30+, but pick 25 or lower should get the job done.

I would disagree totally on both points.

I wouldn’t imagine his next contract would be that much less than $400,000, say $300,000, I wouldn’t be leaving my club if I was a regular player, in a strong side for $100,000 to go to a club maybe on the rise.

If I was a club who had a contracted player, the son of a club great, who we thought was a really good player and a rival came calling, I would put a huge price that is way overs. I wouldn’t be letting required players walk for a mid 20s pick.

$500,000 to even get his attention, then a top 15 pick to get the Pies to consider.

 

[ItsAllAboutMe]

Someone who woulda been perfect to bring over for the small forward role prior to this year would have been Shai Bolton, but looks like he's now cemented his spot and flourishing at the tigers

Dan Rioli has been dropped by the Tigers this year and seems a tad out of form, so perhaps not liking a new role.. Would be a huge get, although signed a new contract last year.

 

[ItsAllAboutMe]

What would we have to give up to get patrick lipinski?
He is a quality player, can hit the scoreboard has decent speed and agility, and a good user. Would be instantly best 22.

Huge fan of his, just looks like he is made of the right stuff. Dogs are at a bit of a cross roads especially if they miss finals again, they will need to refresh the side and might be willing to let a few assets go in order to bring in specific needs.