List Mgmt. 2020 List Management

[DirkDiggler]

Wines
Papley
Caldwell

Id be moving heaven n earth for these 3

That would mean we wouldn't be participating in the draft for the next two years. Is it part of buy now pay later approach?

 

[Jeremias]

i guess it depends on which basket you put all the recycled cast offs in.

Sure.

I like to look at the bigger picture with all those moves. Consider each and every one of them in full context.

A lot of the players we brought in may look like misses in isolation, but they were pretty smart acquisitions overall.

 

[Stamos]

Player development is still my ongoing concern, top 10 picks like Dow and LOB really should have come on better than what they have by now.

The issue might be your expectations of players at the beginning of their 3rd year?

 

[La Dispute]

That would mean we wouldn't be participating in the draft for the next two years. Is it part of buy now pay later approach?

We have brought in enough early draft picks, and as we are already seeing not all are even guaranteed to make it let alone become the stars we were all projecting them to be.

We need to be far more more considered with our recruiting over the next few years and start prioritising players we have seen perform well at AFL level. On the basis of what we have seen from Caldwell in the first few rounds he should be close to our number one target.

 

[Stamos]

I am somewhat happy for a Dow, LOB, Stocker and any other draftees to be playing 2nds for some or all of the season, if they are given clear goals to work on, to get in the senior side. We can’t whinge about no culture and a losing mentality and then want to just play the kids, if they don’t demand a game. The reason we have a losing mentality, is because for so long, we have been about getting high picks and playing them, to get experience as quick as possible And waiting for the tide to turn.

Making young p,ayers or any players fight for a game and then fight to keep their spot, will drive a better mentality, for this to work, players in the senior side need to be held to a high standard and can’t produce many, if any four possession games or no tackle games to keep their spot.

Other than Dow’s disposal, I can see many positives to his game, LOB has physicality and composure to work on but I see a kid with good disposal who can find the ball, I however have never seen Stocker play.

Work on your weakness and the games will come.

I agree, except that I think LOB would be offering at least as much as Newnes currently, and we could have done with Dow, if he was fit, in the guts on Saturday.

 

[Elmer_Hauser]

We have not enough class or depth to start throwing up the likes of SPS or Fisher up for trade

Also given our lack of quality young player development, it would solve nothing with our current list issues (which I firmly believe is more psychological in terms of not having the instinct or drive on how to win, more than anything ability related or lack thereof)

Ideally we should bring in a premiership player from another club on the cheap, like Brisbane did with Luke Hodge, to help instill a Culture and mindset of winning.

Ideally someone like Isaac Smith or Luke Parker (or of that ilk)

We need more players who know what it's like to win on our list, rebuilding or youth quotas be damned.

 

[HavUEvaSeenTheRain]

We have brought in enough early draft picks, and as we are already seeing not all are even guaranteed to make it let alone become the stars we were all projecting them to be.

We need to be far more more considered with our recruiting over the next few years and start prioritising players we have seen perform well at AFL level. On the basis of what we have seen from Caldwell in the first few rounds he should be close to our number one target.

I’ve been a no to Caldwell but watching him against North and I’ve already changed my mind. The problem is he won’t come cheap. Teams like North and Hawthorn will be all over him.

 

[BlueTang]

I agree, except that I think LOB would be offering at least as much as Newnes currently, and we could have done with Dow, if he was fit, in the guts on Saturday.

How is the coach to know what he would get from Newnes, until he played him, he needs some time to form cohesion with his new team mates. Also think we all had to high an expectation for Harry on his first game back after a 9 month gap.
upset win against the cats, let’s do this.

 

[Kreuuuzeurns]

It seems the best clubs generally have 4-5 a grade mids.

Cripps is clearly elite, I have no doubt Walsh will get there, I’m personally still extremely bullish on SPS to get there. Add a guy like Wines and it doesn’t look horrible.

Not everyone has to be the star. If something like the above eventuates then the likes of Fisher, Stocker, Dow, Setterfield, Kemp, Philp, Gibbons etc. only need to be strong secondary rotation players as underwhelming as that may be. Not to write any of them off, but they’ll all find their place in the pecking order soon, and a second big body like Wines may be all they need to take that next step.

Looking at the FA list, Lin Jong would be astute without breaking the bank. A bit bare otherwise.

 

[F_therest]

The issue might be your expectations of players at the beginning of their 3rd year?

I know i'm a bit of a broken record with this, but it would be really nice if guys like Dow/LOB/Stocker/Setterfield were having the same kind of impact for our team as Rozee/Duursma/Butters are for Port. They were all AMAZING against Adelaide on the weekend and very good last year too. Intensity, flair, skills, hard running, defensive intent.

I know we have one ourselves in Walsh and we can't expect all kids to have such a big impact straight away, but a few more from all our high draft picks over recent years would be nice and would be that little lift we need to win more games.

Dow/LOB/Stocker/Kennedy aren't even in the team and all have some clear weaknesses to work on.
And while best 22, we need a bit more from Fisher/SPS/Setterfield/Cuningham.

 

[F_therest]

It seems the best clubs generally have 4-5 a grade mids.

Cripps is clearly elite, I have no doubt Walsh will get there, I’m personally still extremely bullish on SPS to get there. Add a guy like Wines and it doesn’t look horrible.

Not everyone has to be the star. If something like the above eventuates then the likes of Fisher, Stocker, Dow, Setterfield, Kemp, Philp, Gibbons etc. only need to be strong secondary rotation players as underwhelming as that may be. Not to write any of them off, but they’ll all find their place in the pecking order soon, and a second big body like Wines may be all they need to take that next step.

Looking at the FA list, Lin Jong would be astute without breaking the bank. A bit bare otherwise.

Yeah we're 1 gun mature mid short at the moment and it shows. Murphy won't go on much longer either so we need to replace him.

We need Setterfield/Cuningham/Dow/LOB/Stocker/Fisher/SPS types to really step up. Even Kennedy as a high draft pick but at this point doesn't look like he'll make it (as a mid at least). If even just 2-3 of these guys can make the jump up we'll be such a better team.

Add in the new guys like Kemp & Philp and we've invested really heavily in high draft pick mids over the last few years...we need some of them to stand up otherwise we're in big trouble list wise.

 

[Mezzoculo]

That would mean we wouldn't be participating in the draft for the next two years. Is it part of buy now pay later approach?

If the club has considered the risk/rewards of being outside the first round of the next two seasons in exchange for the right established players then we need to back their decision making.

Plus there's nothing stopping us from trading back in to future drafts if the club identifies a draftee that would fit our needs.

 

[Elmer_Hauser]

Kemp will be fine, I can reassure you of that, even if we don't see him this season.

Ditto Stocker, but the sooner we start playing him and get 50 games into him; the better.

Cometh the hour, Cometh the man, Stocker should be all set and ready to go down the miserable and cold trip to Geelong.

I am all for beinf cautious, making sure the kids don't get banged up too early in their career, but i believe Stocker would relish the challenge of playing against the much lauded Geelong midfield, and I firmly believe the MC should give him the opportunity.

 

[ItsAllAboutMe]

We definitely should not be trying to 'just play the kids' we need to build a winning culture into the team and should be trying to win every game, which means putting in the best 24 each game that Teaguey thinks will give us the best chance of winning. I however will be concerned if that side ever has Darcy Lang in it again.

 

[BlueBlood15]

Kemp will be fine, I can reassure you of that, even if we don't see him this season.

Ditto Stocker, but the sooner we start playing him and get 50 games into him; the better.

Cometh the hour, Cometh the man, Stocker should be all set and ready to go down the miserable and cold trip to Geelong.

I am all for beinf cautious, making sure the kids don't get banged up too early in their career, but i believe Stocker would relish the challenge of playing against the much lauded Geelong midfield, and I firmly believe the MC should give him the opportunity.

Like you, I am also a Stocker fan. Watched him closely in the VFL and his AFL games last year. He looked to me to have a great mix of toughness, mongrel and skills (on both sides). Clearly his tank is an issue. In the VFL game I went to, they rotated him very heavily off the ground. It was short spurts and then off.

However, my question is: where is this kid at in the pecking order? Has had no injury issues since the start of pre-season in November. Played as a half forward to little effect vs Pies in the pre-season scratch match. Didn’t get picked to play in any official pre-season game, including against Freo where we played 26 players and had 7-8 best 22 players not travel to Perth. Rather, he was playing in the VFL practice matches. Hasn’t been named emergency for either of the two games. I understand bringing him along slowly but something seems up. Would be keen to hear if anyone has intel. The only reason I raise this point is because I really liked what I saw from him last year. It feels like we need his mongrel, physicality and attitude.

 

[ItsAllAboutMe]

We have enough draft positions not to need to sell players such as dow sps O'Brien fish-- plus we have many untried young players anyways.. just be prepared to deal our 1st2nd this year and next and take as many free agent we can .. then draft again or trade heavy in 22

We dont have key fringe players that would be any value to another side, so draft picks is all we have to work with.. We should be aggressive with the picks to fill our needs which are still another quality midfielder to support Cripps and Walsh and a high pressure forward..

 

[HereComesJuddy]

That would mean we wouldn't be participating in the draft for the next two years. Is it part of buy now pay later approach?

I now see no need to be in the first 2 rounds of the next 2 drafts. We no have plenty of kids. We just need a few more seasoned players.

Papley is number 1 on my list for obvious reasons.
2. Brad crouch as he is a FA and would massively help our midfield.
3. Jackson Hately (even though he is young) is because this guy will explode soon and can play midfield and forward.
4. Jye Caldwell. Another young but will be a gun

There's plenty of players out there that would help but i think 2021 is our year where it all clicks.

Bailey Smith. Please god please

 

[ferrisb]

If you're discussing Dow, these were his possessions per game in 2019:
21, 23, 14, 20, 17, 16, 15, 20, 11, 14, 21, 12, 9, 7, 7, 8, 4, 19, 13
1st half of the season was pretty damn good but dropped off towards the end. I still think this kid will be something special

First half of the season was a damn fine effort for a 19yo mid in his 2nd season.

He lacks polish and appears to be drained of confidence. But finding the ball isn't his problem. He averaged 28 touches a game at TAC level. He knows how to find the footy. What he does with it after that is more of an issue.

Playing him in the forward line or against front-line mids as a raw 19/20yo is always going to be rough.

While he looks very ordinary at the moment, I think he will be fine in time as his body fills out and he can better compete in the guts.

 

[HereComesJuddy]

First half of the season was a damn fine effort for a 19yo mid in his 2nd season.

He lacks polish and appears to be drained of confidence. But finding the ball isn't his problem. He averaged 28 touches a game at TAC level. He knows how to find the footy. What he does with it after that is more of an issue.

Playing him in the forward line or against front-line mids as a raw 19/20yo is always going to be rough.

While he looks very ordinary at the moment, I think he will be fine in time as his body fills out and he can better compete in the guts.

Agree legend.
See no issue with his first half of last year. Add a Brad Crouch around him and a speedy winger on the outside and we will see Dow flourish

 

[DangerousD]

Sure.

I like to look at the bigger picture with all those moves. Consider each and every one of them in full context.

A lot of the players we brought in may look like misses in isolation, but they were pretty smart acquisitions overall.

Im not sure how recruiting players, who were let go for not being good enough, or being professional enough at one club, bringing them to our club and delisting them after 1-2 seasons are smart acquisitions.

 

[HBF]

I am somewhat happy for a Dow, LOB, Stocker and any other draftees to be playing 2nds for some or all of the season, if they are given clear goals to work on, to get in the senior side. We can’t whinge about no culture and a losing mentality and then want to just play the kids, if they don’t demand a game. The reason we have a losing mentality, is because for so long, we have been about getting high picks and playing them, to get experience as quick as possible And waiting for the tide to turn.

Making young p,ayers or any players fight for a game and then fight to keep their spot, will drive a better mentality, for this to work, players in the senior side need to be held to a high standard and can’t produce many, if any four possession games or no tackle games to keep their spot.

Other than Dow’s disposal, I can see many positives to his game, LOB has physicality and composure to work on but I see a kid with good disposal who can find the ball, I however have never seen Stocker play.

Work on your weakness and the games will come.

Great post DD.

 

[HBF]

I now see no need to be in the first 2 rounds of the next 2 drafts. We no have plenty of kids. We just need a few more seasoned players.

Papley is number 1 on my list for obvious reasons.
2. Brad crouch as he is a FA and would massively help our midfield.
3. Jackson Hately (even though he is young) is because this guy will explode soon and can play midfield and forward.
4. Jye Caldwell. Another young but will be a gun

There's plenty of players out there that would help but i think 2021 is our year where it all clicks.

Bailey Smith. Please god please

Would certainly take a look at him give his FA status. Be interesting to see how we approach the trade period of the year without SOS.
SOS would never over-pay anyone, so lets see what Austin and his team does.

 

[Own The Future]

Like you, I am also a Stocker fan. Watched him closely in the VFL and his AFL games last year. He looked to me to have a great mix of toughness, mongrel and skills (on both sides). Clearly his tank is an issue. In the VFL game I went to, they rotated him very heavily off the ground. It was short spurts and then off.

However, my question is: where is this kid at in the pecking order? Has had no injury issues since the start of pre-season in November. Played as a half forward to little effect vs Pies in the pre-season scratch match. Didn’t get picked to play in any official pre-season game, including against Freo where we played 26 players and had 7-8 best 22 players not travel to Perth. Rather, he was playing in the VFL practice matches. Hasn’t been named emergency for either of the two games. I understand bringing him along slowly but something seems up. Would be keen to hear if anyone has intel. The only reason I raise this point is because I really liked what I saw from him last year. It feels like we need his mongrel, physicality and attitude.

It’s like you read my mind.
I have the exact same queries.
I have also liked what I’ve seen, and am baffled (and a tad concerned) that he seems so far away from getting a game in the ones.
I am not a huge advocate of throwing the kids to the wolves and letting them get battered, but Stocker is not a baby and I’m sure can handle it.
He made some disposal errors when he played last season (I vaguely recall some clangers coming out of defence, against Collingwood I think?), but these are learning experiences, not career defining mistakes which will tarnish his reputation forever.
Even if he’s not playing AFL, the fact that he seems almost an afterthought is completely baffling. Is he ignoring instructions from the coaches? Is he missing fitness goals by a huge margin? Cannot see what other explanations there are - when it is plainly obvious to me that as an elite clearance players in the U18s he is precisely what our team is crying out for. I really hope there is method to this, and that there is a reason why he is seemingly being left behind.
People will say that he’s still young and needs time, but as many others have mentioned on this forum there are numerous other kids from that same draft tearing it up on other teams (the PA trio, Bailey Smith of WB, Lukosius from GC, Caldwell from GWS, etc). None of them are perfect, but they are getting valuable experience and genuinely impacting games.
Hopefully we see Stocker play at least a few games this season.

 

[Own The Future]

It’s like you read my mind.
I have the exact same queries.
I have also liked what I’ve seen, and am baffled (and a tad concerned) that he seems so far away from getting a game in the ones.
I am not a huge advocate of throwing the kids to the wolves and letting them get battered, but Stocker is not a baby and I’m sure can handle it.
He made some disposal errors when he played last season (I vaguely recall some clangers coming out of defence, against Collingwood I think?), but these are learning experiences, not career defining mistakes which will tarnish his reputation forever.
Even if he’s not playing AFL, the fact that he seems almost an afterthought is completely baffling. Is he ignoring instructions from the coaches? Is he missing fitness goals by a huge margin? Cannot see what other explanations there are - when it is plainly obvious to me that as an elite clearance players in the U18s he is precisely what our team is crying out for. I really hope there is method to this, and that there is a reason why he is seemingly being left behind.
People will say that he’s still young and needs time, but as many others have mentioned on this forum there are numerous other kids from that same draft tearing it up on other teams (the PA trio, Bailey Smith of WB, Lukosius from GC, Caldwell from GWS, etc). None of them are perfect, but they are getting valuable experience and genuinely impacting games.
Hopefully we see Stocker play at least a few games this season.

Two other quick points re this:
1 - I would hate for him to be crowbarred into a small forward role, as we have seen from the Gibbons experiment that inside mids are best suited a midfield role. Play the guys where they play best. We drafted him as a mid, for gods sake let him play there! I don’t mind him playing in the backline for a bit, to increase his accountability and use his excellent disposal, but clearly he is not a goal kicking forward.
2 - People may accuse me of desperately wanting Stocker to pan out due to the future 1st trade. While it would be nice to be able to justify that move, it is not my main inspiration. I am just wanting quality players to do well for our team, whether they were a number one pick or a rookie draft selection or traded in for a 4th round pick. They are on our list, they show promise... I want them to succeed and play well for the Navy Blues.
That’s what we all want.

 

[Quazza]

One thing that concerns me......

Is there a slower starting midfield right now than Patty, Murph and Ed ?

I feel for our defenders in that regard