List Mgmt. 2020 List Management

[AcesnEights]

We have a habit on this board of putting potential targets down, regardless of how good they are or how much we need their services. Take, for example, Shiel two years ago: more than half the board didn't want him, despite him immediately being our second best midfielder if he came.

We can do this for pretty much every player you care to mention that we've targeted over the last 5 years. This irritates me, because a) I'm hugely into Wines, as I feel he'd add a lot to our ones, the least of which would be the fact that opposition couldn't shut us down by clamping on Cripps, and b) he's clearly heavier than he needs to be, due to Port's obsession with massive midfielders.

We need to jumpstart our midfield. Papley doesn't do that, short of us robbing Peter to pay Paul and playing him as a mid. Wines and Williams accomplishes that, where Papley - like most small forwards, regardless of how well credentialed - is icing.

Papley is only thing Sydney has going for them takes marks and kicks goals

Wines I think Blues have enough young guys to play his role next year

 

[Jeremias]

Question for all of us armchair list managers:
If all things were equal (length/$ of contract) and we could choose between them, would you prefer Saad or Z. Williams at the Blues? And why?

Williams for sure.

Much better footballer, with greater flexibility.

 

[ABigOlDoofus]

We have a habit on this board of putting potential targets down, regardless of how good they are or how much we need their services. Take, for example, Shiel two years ago: more than half the board didn't want him, despite him immediately being our second best midfielder if he came.

We can do this for pretty much every player you care to mention that we've targeted over the last 5 years. This irritates me, because a) I'm hugely into Wines, as I feel he'd add a lot to our ones, the least of which would be the fact that opposition couldn't shut us down by clamping on Cripps, and b) he's clearly heavier than he needs to be, due to Port's obsession with massive midfielders.

We need to jumpstart our midfield. Papley doesn't do that, short of us robbing Peter to pay Paul and playing him as a mid. Wines and Williams accomplishes that, where Papley - like most small forwards, regardless of how well credentialed - is icing.

Although I may be mistaken, when I see people putting down potential targets, i.e someone not wanting Wines because he's too slow, not good enough etc., they're talking about them in relation to their perceived cost, whether that cost is draft picks, players, or cap space. Obviously most posters will want good players, if they came for the right price.

We'll use your Shiel argument as an example. Obviously he would be our second best midfielder and a fantastic addition to our side, but he would have cost us two first round picks, which we used the first of on Sam Walsh, and traded the second one for Kemp and Philp. So would you be happy to pay those three for Shiel? Even though it's early I certainly wouldn't. It's a similar thing for Wines:

Would I want him? Of course, when he's up and about he's an absolute gun.

Would I be happy to pay what he's perceived to be worth? I'm still debating it with myself but I'm leaning towards no.

 

[Gethelred]

Although I may be mistaken, when I see people putting down potential targets, i.e someone not wanting Wines because he's too slow, not good enough etc., they're talking about them in relation to their perceived cost, whether that cost is draft picks, players, or cap space. Obviously most posters will want good players, if they came for the right price.

We'll use your Shiel argument as an example. Obviously he would be our second best midfielder and a fantastic addition to our side, but he would have cost us two first round picks, which we used the first of on Sam Walsh, and traded the second one for Kemp and Philp. So would you be happy to pay those three for Shiel?

This rests upon an incorrect assumption: that we would have paid exactly the same thing as what Essendon paid.

SOS is a different kettle to Dodoro, and would have engineered a very different set of results. SOS went into drafts with ideas concerning who he wanted rather than what picks he had, and he worked with what he had to bring those players to carlton. There's also the fact that that that draft was amazingly deep in terms of quality; we may have missed out on Walsh, but gotten ourselves a Smith, a Rankine, a Rozee.

There is enough quality in that draft for us to be content with our haul regardless of who we got. That we have Walsh is good, but the opportunity cost of Shiel does not necessarily equal Walsh or the others you suggest.

Even though it's early I certainly wouldn't. It's a similar thing for Wines:

Would I want him? Of course, when he's up and about he's an absolute gun.

Would I be happy to pay what he's perceived to be worth? I'm still debating it with myself but I'm leaning towards no.

I can understand that, but I don't agree with it. We desperately need midfield assistance, and between Williams and Wines we go from being extremely one dimensional to being multifaceted, especially if some of the young players we can surround them with start to come on as well.

 

[Gethelred]

Papley is only thing Sydney has going for them takes marks and kicks goals

Wines I think Blues have enough young guys to play his role next year

... like?

 

[Accidental genius]

... like?

how much more impactful would wines be in our team compared to kennedy? we also have kemp developing. my prefernce is to go for more class. if not available then focus internally.

 

[Jeremias]

how much more impactful would wines be in our team compared to kennedy?

Significantly. There's no comparison between the two.

 

[thylacine60]

clutching at thin, cylindrical drinking devices here but if the swannies can be introduced to the notion of the rebuild, they may be interested in selling paps.....

 

[HARKER]

In normal circumstances around this time of the year, some 'whispers' start to come about as to who we may have our eyes on............Nothing.

Anyone hearing anything?


EDIT: I'm with Gethelred . We don't require the best players, but the right players. I like the idea of GWS's Hill. Feels right.

 

[Jeremias]

clutching at thin, cylindrical drinking devices here but if the swannies can be introduced to the notion of the rebuild, they may be interested in selling paps.....

They've already embraced the rebuild, he's just a crucial part of it.

I still think they'll let him go if he wants out again at the end of the year, just as we did with Gibbs. Whether it's Carlton he chooses is another story.

 

[ABigOlDoofus]

clutching at thin, cylindrical drinking devices here but if the swannies can be introduced to the notion of the rebuild, they may be interested in selling paps.....

Surely if they're rebuilding they see a supremely talented 24 year-old as part of their young core?

 

[thylacine60]

sure, but what they could get for him must still be tempting...........he's pretty much added an extra first rounder or equivalent to his price in the past few weeks

 

[Accidental genius]

Significantly. There's no comparison between the two.

i recall trading him in to assist cripps in the middle. were we miles off in that case?

 

[Jeremias]

i recall trading him in to assist cripps in the middle. were we miles off in that case?

We paid a second round pick for Kennedy who was a talented junior. Hasn't come on as hoped - injuries haven't helped.

Wines is an infinitely better footballer. It's an absurd comparison.

 

[swuzzlebubble]

Wines and SPP for SPS & future first
Papley for Harry

 

[Own The Future]

I know it’s a small sample size, but I’d sure like Dan Butler running around our forward line.
Not a versatile player in that he’s really only effective in the F50, but he’s bloody good at what he does.
Shame the list management team couldn’t come to a consensus about that one - from all reports it was a formality and we cooled on the idea.

 

[ABigOlDoofus]

Wines and PP for SPS & future first
Papley for Harry

You forgot to add the /s

 

[Accidental genius]

We paid a second round pick for Kennedy who was a talented junior. Hasn't come on as hoped - injuries haven't helped.

Wines is an infinitely better footballer. It's an absurd comparison.

not absurd at all. dont think he played much in midfield when he recovered from ankle injury. the main issue i saw was he didnt do much running/chasing so could have been more about fitness. i dont think he is that bad as an in and under type. would be another useful player if he could do some development in this area as we know he can also play up front.

 

[Jeremias]

I know it’s a small sample size, but I’d sure like Dan Butler running around our forward line.
Not a versatile player in that he’s really only effective in the F50, but he’s bloody good at what he does.
Shame the list management team couldn’t come to a consensus about that one - from all reports it was a formality and we cooled on the idea.

He's playing well, but a lot of the work is being done for him up around the midfield.

Also, Butler probably means no Betts...and I'm pretty comfortable with how that one panned out.

 

[Jeremias]

not absurd at all. dont think he played much in midfield when he recovered from ankle injury. the main issue i saw was he didnt do much running/chasing so could have been more about fitness. i dont think he is that bad as an in and under type. would be another useful player if he could do some development in this area as we know he can also play up front.

Yes, it's absurd to suggest we shouldn't go after Wines because we've got Kennedy.

Matt may not even be on the list come next season.

 

[Accidental genius]

Yes, it's absurd to suggest we shouldn't go after Wines because we've got Kennedy.

Matt may not even be on the list come next season.

its not what i said. i said we should aim higher but if we cant get someone better then we should focus internally as in weve got kennedy and kemp developing. i dont want wines. i dont think he adds enough.

 

[swuzzlebubble]

You forgot to add the /s

Done

 

[Own The Future]

He's playing well, but a lot of the work is being done for him up around the midfield.

Also, Butler probably means no Betts...and I'm pretty comfortable with how that one panned out.

Not sure why the 2 couldn’t co-exist.
Richmond play multiple small forwards, as do Geelong, Hawthorn, Brisbane, etc etc.
Eddie is a short term solution, that’s just fact.
And while I agree the StK mids are doing most of the setup work, you could say that about a good number of small forward goals. He has a fantastic goal sense, doesn’t often waste a shot at goal.
Again, small sample size - he may go ice cold and be dropped in a few weeks - but I think he’s a good value pickup for the 3rd or 4th round pick he cost.

 

[Jeremias]

its not what i said. i said we should aim higher but if we cant get someone better then we should focus internally as in weve got kennedy and kemp developing. i dont want wines. i dont think he adds enough.

You queried how much Wines would give us over Kennedy. I responded plenty.

He's a gun. Whether he suits us is another discussion.

Not sure why the 2 couldn’t co-exist.

I agree. But it had always seemed to be one or the other...as well as Papley.

 

[Accidental genius]

You queried how much Wines would give us over Kennedy. I responded plenty.

He's a gun. Whether he suits us is another discussion.

all good. i dont have an issue with your responses i dont rate him as highly as you do.