List Mgmt. 2020 List Management

[HARKER]

This seems a bit unfair.
On one hand, Kennedy and Cuningham just need games and times to get a run at their careers.
But Butler Who had one bad season is only sporadically at AFL level?
It seems you are willing to give heaps of slack to two of our boys but are holding Butler to a totally different standard.

Where do we think Butler would be playing had Carlton picked him up?
We picked up Betts and Martin to play in the forward line, so would have Butler fit into that mix?
Whatever is happening with him at St.Kilda isn't necessarily what would have come about had he signed with Carlton, either.

He's playing his role well and good on him, but I don't see him as a must-have player in the way I view Papley.
Papley drives a standard whereas Butler is more of a cherry on top sort of player....to me.

If we're still talking about Butler by years end, then he would have truly exceeded everyones expectations. We'll see.

 

[F_therest]

My worry with Jack is what is his role? Is it a 4th forward? He doesn’t kick many goals and he doesn’t take many marks and he doesn’t have great speed. In the future between MM, Curnow, Harry and a ruckman we should have all the tall options we need so what does he actually bring that a HF can’t.
Personally I think he is in competition with Cuningham for a spot. Different types but are going to end up having to play similar roles especially if we want to be pushing Kennedy or Cripps forward and maybe Kemp in the future. Imo It will come down to if we want speed or maybe more natural talent. Do we shape our game plan around having a guy like Jack playing as a fourth forward who can find abit of the ball and has a big body or do we try and play a quicker side who might be able to make more from opportunities and create more pressure.
I really don’t know but in a game with a trend going towards quicker and more nimble players up forward playing him over a small forward I think would be a big call considering his versatility isn’t needed anywhere near as much to us as it is in other sides.

Agreed...JSOS will always be on the fringe given the type of player he is and the players in our team already. He'd fit in better at a team with less tall forwards like Melbourne or dare i say Essendon.

I like him as a player and he will play a role with us during the crammed fixture for sure, but i like the idea of surrounding our 3 tall forwards with smaller, quicker players. In the Dogs game Martin played forward basically in JSOS' role and boy was he dynamic and damaging...more so than JSOS.

Better in the air and quicker at ground level.

His fate might depend on where we use Martin...if we are forced to use Martin as mainly a midfielder, JSOS might sneak a spot in the forward line. But if we're playing Martin as a forward I don't see room for JSOS. Also i don't see JSOS breaking into our midfield either when we have guys like Fisher/Dow to come in and Cunners can clearly play midfield (Essendon game).

 

[FitzroyBlueBagger]

Ade rekn brad will go in FA and net them pick 2

There is an article on SEN today about trading out Brad could earn the pick2... absolutely dreaming...

 

[Kramer1]

I just can’t see him staying in the side on pressure acts when you should be able to find the same in a player who makes us structurally better and more of a goal threat.
there is definitely something about him that I like but every time he lines up somewhere I think surely someone could play that role better. If our forward line is going to be CC, MM, Harry, Martin then surely we need some opportunists around them. I think their could be room for one of SOJ or Cuningham but I struggle to see both. Fisher is another guy who could play a HF role and be better then the two of them imo and then we still need that crumbing forward who is a natural goal kicker. Something all those lack imo.
In saying all that SOJ is/will be a better player then dozens of premiership players so I’m not ruling him out, I just don’t see him fitting in the best 22. (Which we all know a best 22 actually never happens)

For me he is a classic inbetweener and a jack of all trades, master of none. Similar to Townsend who was pivotal in a premiership but you would always hope to improve on.

All fine. Agree to disagree. You say Townsend, I see him as a Tom Lynch like forward who brings others into the game. I probably elevate his status a little as we have had so few smart footballers in recent times, and even fewer that show his level of effort.

Good things almost always happen when he has the ball in hand...and that's been a short list in recent years. This year we add Jack Martin to the list, Samo is likely there, and Cuningham and McGovern are certainly up for nomination if they can keep some continuity.

 

[Gethelred]

This seems a bit unfair.
On one hand, Kennedy and Cuningham just need games and times to get a run at their careers.

But Butler Who had one bad season is only sporadically at AFL level?

It seems you are willing to give heaps of slack to two of our boys but are holding Butler to a totally different standard.

Butler hasn't been injured to the extent of the prior two. Butler is not on our list, and is getting the benefit of the grass being greener. Butler was the worst of the Richmond smalls when he was at the club whilst simultaneously was capable of the best footy, and nothing I've seen since has changed my mind about that.

There's only so much I'm willing to wear on the chin as far as our list management goes.

 

[FitzroyBlueBagger]

Milera is exactly the sort of player we need. Classy outside type. Can play back or forward, perhaps even on the wing. Don't know if he's injured, but he's not getting games at the moment, so his price might be a little lower.

He’s been out for a while with a foot injury listed 4 more weeks signed a 5yr contract last year taking him to 2025... one of very few I’d really take off crows...

 

[CJMB]

I just can’t see him staying in the side on pressure acts when you should be able to find the same in a player who makes us structurally better and more of a goal threat.
there is definitely something about him that I like but every time he lines up somewhere I think surely someone could play that role better. If our forward line is going to be CC, MM, Harry, Martin then surely we need some opportunists around them. I think their could be room for one of SOJ or Cuningham but I struggle to see both. Fisher is another guy who could play a HF role and be better then the two of them imo and then we still need that crumbing forward who is a natural goal kicker. Something all those lack imo.
In saying all that SOJ is/will be a better player then dozens of premiership players so I’m not ruling him out, I just don’t see him fitting in the best 22. (Which we all know a best 22 actually never happens)

For me he is a classic inbetweener and a jack of all trades, master of none. Similar to Townsend who was pivotal in a premiership but you would always hope to improve on.

In terms of 'best 22' he could be the '23rd man' next year and still play most weeks, if not all at a stretch. Maybe one week he's off a flank playing smaller, the next he's the 3rd tall up forward, maybe he goes in the middle as a defensive mid, maybe another he has to move back if there's a mismatch or whatever.

 

[Own The Future]

There is an article on SEN today about trading out Brad could earn the pick2... absolutely dreaming...

Surely they mean the FA compensation pick coming straight after their pick (almost guaranteed to be pick 1). No way Crouch would net pick 2 as a trade.
My understanding is the compo pick is also based on the contract the FA gets from their new team. As much as I think he’s a tad overrated, he’d likely get in the $6-700K+ range.

 

[Salt Lake Cities]

There is an article on SEN today about trading out Brad could earn the pick2... absolutely dreaming...

He’s a FA, no trade necessary, just let him walk to the highest bidder and see what the AFL makey uppy give them as compo

I’d guess he’ll fetch band 2, which means they’d theoretically get pick 19 for him atm

When added to a likely pick one and the fact they have the Giants first, it gives them a good draft hand.... and they’ll need it!!

 

[Gethelred]

Firstly you haven't disproven/countered anything that I said.
You dont rate him which is your right but as it stands you're presenting opinion as fact.

We don't know for certain whether there will be a dramatic fall off in form, Papley, who is also in career best form doesn't seem to draw your ire or condemnation in a similar manner, nor does Betts - both have also had periods of indifferent form.
Butler was a solid performer at VFL level for a Tigers side that has almost unprecedented depth of small forwards, we have no such problem with a 33yo Betts the only genuine comparison on our list.
Buts is definitely AFL standard and while there may be questions over how long he can continue his form - your rant on the subject is absurd, Gowers? You're better than that..

...

I've demonstrated several patches of excellent form, and several patches of poor form, the final of which Richmond proved they had learnt their lesson and/or had other cattle who took the spot in the team and dropped him. Statistics aren't opinion. Your description of it as a 'rant' is childish.

When I say Gowers, I mean a player we get hit with without due examination of why the decisions that were made were made. Gowers is one we've very frequently been criticised for not retaining, when there are several reasons why retaining him was the wrong choice; he plays tall, and we had just recruited Charlie and Harry whilst retaining Casboult on the list, and he himself admits that his attitude changed when he went to the Dogs. Butler is similar, as there is plenty of hindsight going into the reading of his game, as the sole single position small forward for a coach who loves the slingshot play.

You are welcome to your view, but this is not a decision I'm willing to wear. Papley is a player I've stated I'm willing to back off from, if the asking price is too much; I've also not put forth an opinion on Papley's actual game either. Betts can't hang around forever, but the romance of it and the transition to an off-field role - coupled with his still being more than handy out there still - meant that the trade on the cheap was better in the short, medium and long.

 

[FitzroyBlueBagger]

Surely they mean the FA compensation pick coming straight after their pick (almost guaranteed to be pick 1). No way Crouch would net pick 2 as a trade.
My understanding is the compo pick is also based on the contract the FA gets from their new team. As much as I think he’s a tad overrated, he’d likely get in the $6-700K+ range.

Yeah apologies, FA that’s what i meant... 700k plus I’m not sure he’s worth anywhere near that too be honest, every year there’s always a club willing to overpay on players but with what’s going on atm it may mean clubs take a more sensible and more cautious approach... For the record i did like the idea last trade period of getting him in for the right money/draft pick but he seemed to whack a very high price on he’s head as did Crows with what they we’re asking in draft picks...
He and his brother is a big NO for me as is Wines...

 

[FitzroyBlueBagger]

He’s a FA, no trade necessary, just let him walk to the highest bidder and see what the AFL makey uppy give them as compo

I’d guess he’ll fetch band 2, which means they’d theoretically get pick 19 for him atm

When added to a likely pick one and the fact they have the Giants first, it gives them a good draft hand.... and they’ll need it!!

Yeah meant FA They need picks, end of year fire sale will be interesting...

 

[BlueBlood15]

Surely they mean the FA compensation pick coming straight after their pick (almost guaranteed to be pick 1). No way Crouch would net pick 2 as a trade.
My understanding is the compo pick is also based on the contract the FA gets from their new team. As much as I think he’s a tad overrated, he’d likely get in the $6-700K+ range.

Interested to see if there is a market for him this year. Pretty sure they tightened up the money and contract length required for a first round compensation pick so every chance he ends up being an end of first if he leaves. Reckon the Crows missed a trick not shipping him off to GC last year who would have given across a top 10 pick who could be getting games in now as they attempt to rebuild their list. Easy to say in hindsight but it feels like Brad’s value decreases with every game he plays.

 

[skadoosh]

Jack doesn’t kick heaps of goals or rack up 30 odd touches but we are a noticeably better side with him in it. Not sure how and not sure why, but we are.

Jack Martin and Jack Silvagni are at the top of the tree with Cripps in terms of physicality and contested ball prowess.
If JSOS' body is right, he should be straight back into the side.

 

[Own The Future]

Yeah apologies, FA that’s what i meant... 700k plus I’m not sure he’s worth anywhere near that too be honest, every year there’s always a club willing to overpay on players but with what’s going on atm it may mean clubs take a more sensible and more cautious approach... For the record i did like the idea last trade period of getting him in for the right money/draft pick but he seemed to whack a very high price on he’s head as did Crows with what they we’re asking in draft picks...
He and his brother is a big NO for me as is Wines...

Yeah I’m lukewarm on the Crouch boys and Wines.
Of those I think I’d go for Wines, but I’m not sure the need for the inside mid is there as it seemed to be only a month or 2 ago.
I have been so impressed with Setterfield the past month or so, and while I know that is a small sample size I think he is showing he is capable of being an excellent inside mid. He is extracting beautifully, trusting his body and standing up in tackles, and also consistently applying pressure/tackles.
Many are also suggesting Kemp may be best suited to an inside mid role - so how many can we have in the 22? I suppose Kemp could be considered a replacement for Ed in the coming years.
If we are spending up big in $$$ and picks to get a Wines, I’d rather use those assets on a dynamic runner with elite disposal. I know he won’t be the one, but someone the likes of Whitfield is what I’d be targeting.

 

[RedFury]

Players often burst onto the scene when arriving at a new club, keen to make a good impression. Let's wait and see how Butler is tracking this time next year.

(edit: yes you could probably say the same for one or two of ours.)

 

[HBF]

Jack Martin and Jack Silvagni are at the top of the tree with Cripps in terms of physicality and contested ball prowess.
If JSOS' body is right, he should be straight back into the side.

And given our 3 talls I think i'd be happy if he played in the midfield. We all know he can do it thats for sure.

 

[Team DJ]

Ill give you Milera, haven't seen enough of Hamill yet.

Brad crouch a bit like Wines for me. Paying a lot for someone who in all likelihood has their best footy behind them already.

Laird very unaccountable and can't kick over a jam jar, and cheap possesion specialist. We need more of a lock down player.

 

[Jimmyonesix]

Are we unlucky or what is it -- how come we seem to have so many knee injuries and players needing knee strapping -- I thought it might be Optus oval surface ??

 

[Jimmyonesix]

Cripps docherty Kennedy dow silvagni curnow( pre season 2019 then ended in disaster) marchbank on TOP of everything else .......( Newman can't count ) kemp ( we bought like that) probably missed some -- all knew

 

[xInfected_Virus]

I think you may need another clearance bull mid to cement a spot in the eight so maybe go after Crouch, Crows are rebuilding and you should have the cap space for him?

I wouldn't be surprised if Casboult goes to the Pies since they desperately need another key forward/second ruck since they can't go with Cox as their number 1 key forward in 2021 and beyond and Ben Reid keeps breaking down and Darcy Cameron is more of a first ruck type. The reason why I think Collingwood will go after Casboult instead of Ben Brown is because first of all they won't have the cap space for Brown (unless he plays for less money and they're older fringe players retires) and secondly, he's more of a lead up type which they have plenty of those already. Since the Pies have plenty of lead up type forwards, a crash pack marking gorilla type would be suited for them more thus less clogging for their mid sized forward's leading space and Casboult fits the bill perfectly. It seems like this season he's become more consistent with his goalkicking.

 

[ABigOlDoofus]

I think you may need another clearance bull mid to cement a spot in the eight so maybe go after Crouch, Crows are rebuilding and you should have the cap space for him?

I wouldn't be surprised if Casboult goes to the Pies since they desperately need another key forward/second ruck since they can't go with Cox as their number 1 key forward in 2021 and beyond and Ben Reid keeps breaking down and Darcy Cameron is more of a first ruck type. The reason why I think Collingwood will go after Casboult instead of Ben Brown is because first of all they won't have the cap space for Brown (unless he plays for less money and they're older fringe players retires) and secondly, he's more of a lead up type which they have plenty of those already. Since the Pies have plenty of lead up type forwards, a crash pack marking gorilla type would be suited for them more thus less clogging for their mid sized forward's leading space and Casboult fits the bill perfectly. It seems like this season he's become more consistent with his goalkicking.

What makes you think Cas will want to leave????

 

[FitzroyBlueBagger]

Yeah I’m lukewarm on the Crouch boys and Wines.
Of those I think I’d go for Wines, but I’m not sure the need for the inside mid is there as it seemed to be only a month or 2 ago.
I have been so impressed with Setterfield the past month or so, and while I know that is a small sample size I think he is showing he is capable of being an excellent inside mid. He is extracting beautifully, trusting his body and standing up in tackles, and also consistently applying pressure/tackles.
Many are also suggesting Kemp may be best suited to an inside mid role - so how many can we have in the 22? I suppose Kemp could be considered a replacement for Ed in the coming years.
If we are spending up big in $$$ and picks to get a Wines, I’d rather use those assets on a dynamic runner with elite disposal. I know he won’t be the one, but someone the likes of Whitfield is what I’d be targeting.

Dynamic runners with elite disposal is what I’d like us to target or chase myself, whether we can land someone with these abilities is not going to be easy...
Hopefully we play out the year strong in the same way we’re goin atm, and give these great opposition players out there something to really think about...

 

[HereComesJuddy]

I think you may need another clearance bull mid to cement a spot in the eight so maybe go after Crouch, Crows are rebuilding and you should have the cap space for him?

I wouldn't be surprised if Casboult goes to the Pies since they desperately need another key forward/second ruck since they can't go with Cox as their number 1 key forward in 2021 and beyond and Ben Reid keeps breaking down and Darcy Cameron is more of a first ruck type. The reason why I think Collingwood will go after Casboult instead of Ben Brown is because first of all they won't have the cap space for Brown (unless he plays for less money and they're older fringe players retires) and secondly, he's more of a lead up type which they have plenty of those already. Since the Pies have plenty of lead up type forwards, a crash pack marking gorilla type would be suited for them more thus less clogging for their mid sized forward's leading space and Casboult fits the bill perfectly. It seems like this season he's become more consistent with his goalkicking.

I doubt Cas goes anywhere

 

[smashbox gill]

Jack doesn’t kick heaps of goals or rack up 30 odd touches but we are a noticeably better side with him in it. Not sure how and not sure why, but we are.

Because of effort, desire and smarts. A lot of what he does can’t be measured in stats