List Mgmt. 2020 List Management

[Arr0w]

Would also be very good pinch-hitting through the midfield imo, has good balance and is strong.

But yes, for me personally a line-breaking half-back is almost priority number one. That and another tough/dashing midfielder. Zac Williams come on down!

Yeap

Then, a decent KPD to take over from Jones/cover for injury and another TDK type

Small forwards are 5th on my list of priorities

 

[Sharks On A Plane]

Yeap

Then, a decent KPD to take over from Jones/cover for injury and another TDK type

Small forwards are 5th on my list of priorities

Williams is seriously perfect for us. Unlikely but it would be huge if we can land him (especially not having to trade anything for his services).

I agree that the lack of KPD cover is a concern. Goddard isn't up to it, Marchbank is undersized/injured and BSOS remains a big unknown. Casboult a good stop-gap but required elsewhere currently. Macreadie the wildcard but I see him as more of a tall flanker. Would hope we invest in a KPD with a lateish pick in this draft, not sure if we would target any established players.

 

[Juice030103]

Yeap

Then, a decent KPD to take over from Jones/cover for injury and another TDK type

Small forwards are 5th on my list of priorities

Surely you think we aren’t far away for premiership glory? You have to see the potential

 

[Salt Lake Cities]

Just as an aside -

GWS are widely regarded as having the best midfield in the league, other than the ruck-man
So far this year, they have not once won the inside forward 50 count and not just lost them, but by a long way.

Maybe the numbers are wrong, but I have 268 for and 368 against.....and this is the best midfield going?
There's something wrong there...surely.

Really surprised they are re-signing Cameron, thought they’d be hot on the heels of Clarko...

 

[Arr0w]

Surely you think we aren’t far away for premiership glory? You have to see the potential

Realist

Most were suggesting bottom 4 after the Saints game, same people are now suggesting top 8

I think we are around 8th to 11th, so maybe just miss out

Think by the end of this year, we have a great platform into next year/finals, but then it starts all over again

This draft, but especially the trade period is our most important

 

[HavUEvaSeenTheRain]

I agree with everyones points on Papley and he'd bring entertainment factor off the charts, but we're clearly sticking to our 3 marking key forward set up.

The question is...

Will quality ball use to those targets be most beneficial to our gameplan....or will accepting we don't have many quality users in the middle and having the 3 of them working on bringing it to ground and surround them with elite smalls?

I just don't see any reason we would have 3 of the most talented talls in the comp and not be having them the focus of our game. Its borderline impossible to defend a 200cm big man on the run getting hit on the chest from the mids

This is simply a question we don't know the answer to imo, Richmond focused on feeding the small forwards, West coast focused on feeding the big talls, we have the opportunity to combine the two styles with Gov Harry and Charlie, and Papley Martin and Gibbo/Cunners.

Time will tell but I know what we'd get from someone like Josh Kelly. I don't know what I'll get from Papley when Charlie Harry and Gov are all firing, yet.

Most goal assists come from other forwards and a player like Papley was top ten last year when he was playing further from goals. His kicking to forwards is one of his best strengths, he is just playing deep now so it’s not used anymore. I imagine if he was at Carlton he would be playing higher up and often kicking to our talls anyway which he is fantastic at. If we do manage to get him imo we will be getting the 2019 version not the 2020.
I love Kelly but even though he uses the ball beautifully he still only managed 10 GA last year. I highly doubt he is kicking to a marking forward anymore then Papley would be.

 

[thylacine60]

how long has "goal assists" been a relevant term anyway? ****ing usual terminology creep...........(creep as a verb, not a noun)...........

 

[katmanblue]

What would Caleb Daniel cost?

Contracted to 2022.

Really good with ball in hand.

Pipe dream?

On SM-N960F using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[ABigOlDoofus]

What would Caleb Daniel cost?

Contracted to 2022.

Really good with ball in hand.

Pipe dream?

On SM-N960F using BigFooty.com mobile app

About 1 Liam Jones

 

[DangerousD]

We could offer second rounders, but if we do that we're not able to trade our future first, and we still have to give up our first rounder for Papley.

I would assume we would be getting a second back in the Papley trade if it were to go through. It then becomes 2 first rounders for Papley and Witherden or Papley and Mclean.

We then still have a second and third to go to the draft

 

[DangerousD]

Purely game style.

Yet they are desperate to re-sign the coach and he seems respected in AFL circles, they have underachieved for years

 

[DangerousD]

Stop with the feel and stick to the facts, we don't struggle to kick goals once inside 50, we struggle getting it in there

We need a quality mid more than a quality forward, IMHO

Come on, if ever there was a case for dismissing an opinion based on who said it.

Stick with the facts, both responses were then opinions, we have very good inside 50 numbers, just last game we had 16 entries for one goal in the 3rd.

 

[BigBreakfast]

Newman is a better player and more attacking than Witherden, Witherden has tidier foot skills but he's never been one to take the game on and he certainly doesnt run and carry with the ball. Seems to be the forgotten man but he was one of our best players last year, despite not being a fantastic one on one defender.

Laird is all round a better player than both as he is a mix of both Williams and Witherden, he's not as dashing as Williams but he's a lot neater and can really defend smalls. The crows fans seem incredibly open to trading him, they actually have some young talent that look like they can play a bit off half back, so its just about the one area of their list that they can afford to move on.

I posed a trade haul of Mclean, Laird and Papley a while back if we can't secure an A grade mid. Mclean is starved of opportunity but really added some flare and dash in the dogs midfield prior to Macrae and Dunkley breaking out, Laird would be a late first-early 2nd at most and we're left with the currency to get our man in Papley. A lot of talk post trades players discuss how they had their minds made up early on and in the same situation with Gibbs, the Blues said theyd been working through it during the year 2nd time around. I'd be very surprised if the Blues and the Swans didn't already know where Papley stands and are either working through getting an agreeable outcome done early, or completely ruled out the possibility - given the talk from the media, you would expect it to be that he's still seeking a trade even if their sources are off on the price/approach.

I like the idea of McLean. One of those quality players at other clubs who might relish a gig in a different team with greater opportunity ala Butler. The reality is though, he may not demand a gig over the likes of Ed, Setters, Bam, Cuners, SPS eat al and therefore become superfluous to needs. Paying a bit more to get a Williams/Kelly/Perryman on ball type who will impress his place more overtly Demand inclusion may be a more desirable outcome. Otherwise Papley please.

 

[DangerousD]

Yeap

Then, a decent KPD to take over from Jones/cover for injury and another TDK type

Small forwards are 5th on my list of priorities

Where does Marchbank sit in your plans?

 

[BigBreakfast]

Que indeed..
The hype, on this board and elsewhere is much greater this year than last.
Funnily enough, the asking price from the Swans is also expected to go up.

I'm not & never have denied that we held interest last year, coz well.. duh!
My comment was that the Papley that has currently got ppl in a froth isn't a pressure forward.
Self-explanatory I'd have thought but I look forward to someone else arguing a point that I haven't made.

I think it is because we are approaching our window and looking for what might get us over the top, elite talent. Papley easily qualifies. Like, Arrow, I think our forward 50 entries need to be addressed first but, if we can’t do that, bring in the best possible player. If Papley wants to come, bring him in.

 

[BigBreakfast]

Haven't watched them closely TBH, and they certainly have all the big names. Do they play like a team of champions rather than a champion team?

That has been suggested in the media, good call. Certainly pressure on them might shake some talent our way. Shouldn’t be the panacea, nice wishing well though, Kelly in particular.

 

[Blue1980]

Its a huge issue with the vfl season cancelled.The young kids just sitting on the outter waiting to get a call up may opt to choose to go elsewhere to get game time. I wouldnt be suprised if some of our young talent want to move to another club.
A football career has a small window in a person's life,has to be made the most of.

Other younger players from other clubs in the same boat. Where would those guys be getting games if their not with us?

Hawthorn or Adelaide maybe?

 

[Arr0w]

Come on, if ever there was a case for dismissing an opinion based on who said it.

Stick with the facts, both responses were then opinions, we have very good inside 50 numbers, just last game we had 16 entries for one goal in the 3rd.

A number of ways to look at that situation

1 We didn't struggle to convert early when the game was more open

2 Missing Harry, Charlie, Jack, a suspect Levi and Gov going off injured

3 Not lowering our eyes enough, nor chipping the ball around especially to the fat side of the forward 50 arc

4 Lack of players that can hit a leading target, hence bombing the ball long

 

[Arr0w]

Where does Marchbank sit in your plans?

Tough one.

At his best, he is a decent 3rd tall interceptor, who could replace Willo, pushing him up on a wing

Unfortunately that also adds to the lack of run and carry out of our back half

 

[Thehurdle]

Let's just look at it this way -

a. Papley has kicked 19 goals to date and would replace one of Gibbons or Cuningham forward, who have collectively kicked 12 goals so lets's split that down the centre to 6 goals. That's 13 goals in front. Let's now apportion those goals across all games and we find that we win another 2 games, leaving us sitting on 6 wins and 2 losses. Of course it doesn't work that way but we're talking about a huge difference here.

b. Is our midfield going to get better given the depth of young midfielders? Are opposition teams going to clock things up more than we can next year?
If so, which teams can we expect to become so much better than ours?

There's no one simple way but if I had to balance out where I'd prefer the talent, I know where it would be.
The other thing with someone like Papley is that he can lead. We have 2 leaders in the backline, 2 leaders in the midfield but no real leaders forward.
Do we need them? Maybe.

I don't see us having as much a problem at getting the ball forward as I see us maximising our efforts, when in there.
We'll likely get better next year with CCurnow forward but even more likely that at least a couple of the array of mids we have, will take a real step forward.

Pretty sound analysis. Add to that the point others have made that our best 2 games (Gee and WB) were when Eddie had a great game also. Elite small forward, at this stage of the season, should be our primary target. I’d add a mid with elite delivery and goal kicking ability next: Perryman. And only then, as much as I like him and he’s a FA, Williams. A lot can change as the season progresses. Would be good to see Owies and Honey get a run to see if we have anything there. This all depends on whet our bunch of young mids continue to improve, Setters, Kennedy etc.

 

[Thehurdle]

Just some thoughts.

Needs :

Pace and elite disposal out of defence.
Options: Williams(FA) O’Brien

Balanced A grade mid with elite disposal.
Options: Kelly

Clever/dynamic goal kicking small forward.
Options: Papley Rosas Hill Spargo Lonie

Obviously Papley is all the rage atm and if we could land him it would be a tremendous, albeit costly acquisition.
That said,
Sydney may simply refuse point blank.
Sydney’s price may be unacceptable.
Papley may not want Carlton now.

I’m leaning a little the other way atm.
As always, GWS are battling the salary cap with Cameron Kelly and Williams to re sign.
The Giants have enormous midfield depth which just might make Cameron and Williams their priorities.
Amazingly, they might be prepared to discuss Kelly with his FA looming in the back of their minds.
GWS would require 2 x 1sts for Kelly with maybe something small coming back.
I’d be happy with our 1st rounder both this year and next.
Hill may be able to be added to the deal in a mega trade but feel it unlikely.

I would then attempt to add Rosas and either Spargo or Lonie.
Rosas was taken this year via the Suns newly gifted NT academy.
He acquitted himself well on the MCG last year in a combined game against Melbourne reserves and has a touch of that something special about him.
He is buried away at the Suns behind Rankine Sexton and Ainsworth, so could be gettable at a bargain basement price.
Spargo or Lonie would surely be attainable for a 2nd rounder and whilst not Papley, in combination with Rosas would give us good small forward coverage sans Betts.

In summary :

Kelly > 20 & 21 1st rounders
Rosas > 4th rounder
Spargo or Lonie > 2nd rounder

2021 :

O’Brien Jones Plowman
Docherty Weitering Williamson
Walsh Cripps Kelly
Martin Curnow Cuningham
Rosas/Spargo/Lonie McKay McGovern

TDK/Pittonet Setterfield Dow

SPS Fisher Kemp Stocker Curnow Philp Marchbank Silvagni Kennedy Honey Gibbons

Kelly is a jet. Can’t get my head around the fact we would have To pay him more than Crippa, or massively increase Crippa’s salary and risk salary cap pressure for our rising young guns. We have to be careful not to get our salaries out of whack with overall team payments.

 

[Red Bull]

Kelly is a jet. Can’t get my head around the fact we would have To pay him more than Crippa, or massively increase Crippa’s salary and risk salary cap pressure for our rising young guns. We have to be careful not to get our salaries out of whack with overall team payments.

Yes, good cap management is important.
I’m sure Crippa has been made well aware of the long term benefits of being a Carlton captain ...

 

[HavUEvaSeenTheRain]

I may sound like a broken record here but I think almost everyone accepts GWS has the best midfield in the league. So when we talk about our midfield delivering it to our forwards and that getting us the extra goals that a better forward may have otherwise then they are good to look at. They also have good ball users (something we are talking about) in Perryman, Kelly, Cogs, Taranto, Whitfield and Williams.
last year they had 6 players in the top 70 odd for goal assists. Equal top three too who were all forwards. 4 were permanent forwards, then Greene who is mostly a forward and Taranto being the odd one out.
so even with all those brilliant midfielders and great ball users the undoubtedly most important players at passing those goals of are actually other forwards. They are the guys who are the ones setting up the goals, having the crucial final possession. I’m not disputing the importance of good ball users in the midfield or midfield dominance but you only have to look who is actually delivering the most ball to eventual goal kickers. It is other guys playing forward. A high half forward combo of Papley and Martin imo is more important then having great kicks in the midfield as they will be delivering the ball to our forwards more often. Also Half backs because like HF’s theY are the guys who need to pinpoint kicks in heavy traffic.

 

[Gethelred]

I may sound like a broken record here but I think almost everyone accepts GWS has the best midfield in the league. So when we talk about our midfield delivering it to our forwards and that getting us the extra goals that a better forward may have otherwise then they are good to look at. They also have good ball users (something we are talking about) in Perryman, Kelly, Cogs, Taranto, Whitfield and Williams.
last year they had 6 players in the top 70 odd for goal assists. Equal top three too who were all forwards. 4 were permanent forwards, then Greene who is mostly a forward and Taranto being the odd one out.
so even with all those brilliant midfielders and great ball users the undoubtedly most important players at passing those goals of are actually other forwards. They are the guys who are the ones setting up the goals, having the crucial final possession. I’m not disputing the importance of good ball users in the midfield or midfield dominance but you only have to look who is actually delivering the most ball to eventual goal kickers. It is other guys playing forward. A high half forward combo of Papley and Martin imo is more important then having great kicks in the midfield as they will be delivering the ball to our forwards more often. Also Half backs because like HF’s theY are the guys who need to pinpoint kicks in heavy traffic.

An interesting post, but I don't entirely buy the idea that it's the role of HHF's to kick into forward 50, and while I expect Papley - if he comes - to give plenty off to other people I think it is more due to a lack of prolific wings that leads to needing that HHF role rather than the role being neccessary.

 

[Own The Future]

Tough one.

At his best, he is a decent 3rd tall interceptor, who could replace Willo, pushing him up on a wing

Unfortunately that also adds to the lack of run and carry out of our back half

Sadly our run and carry from the backline at the moment seems to end up in a HTB call a bit too often.