List Mgmt. 2020 List Management

[Madblue]

1. Sammy is suffering from a decent right shoulder injury. But he’s playing through it. I’d rest him and throw him under the knife now.

2. Throwing all our kids out there achieves one thing - an undoing of all the good work we have achieved. Keep your best 22 unless injured and work on the game plan. I’d rest Weiter for a week, that calf looks dodgy.

3. I’m not sure what everyone sees in Polson, Honey, Cotterell, Philp, etc, but we continue to bag the living hell out of Dow. None of them have shown anything special at Senior level, but Dow, who plays as an inside mid, the hardest position of any of them, gets the whip. You’d be an idiot to give up on him now. Time to give LOB another run and see what he does, but I don’t expect much due to the faster pace and physicality of the seniors. Perfect swap in for Sammy to rest. It takes more than 1 or 2 games to get used to it and playing in the heat doesn’t help Either.

4. If it’s mathematically impossible, rest Cripps. Don’t ask, just do. He’ll still be around the group, he’s just tanked.

Rest SPS ? FFS you have to do something to earn a rest or deserve it. If he is on the field playing then he is deemed fit enough. There is no excuse for how soft he is and how he refuses to put his body on the line. Then there is his kicking which are usually about 20 metres and still cant hit a target !

 

[TheLeftFooters]

yes to petruccelle ...need that leg speed up front

Petruccelles cousin is dating a mate of mine who is Sam Philips cousin. The family club!

 

[HARKER]

Give them a contract now: Your club's biggest re-signing priorities

AFL.com.au reporters name the player your club needs to put pen to paper

www.afl.com.au

New deals for Liam Ryan and Jack Petruccelle have been all but agreed in principle so their names have been scrubbed off the list. - Mitch Cleary

Forget Petruccelle.
He's also not a type we should be after.

 

[Accidental genius]

Give them a contract now: Your club's biggest re-signing priorities

AFL.com.au reporters name the player your club needs to put pen to paper

www.afl.com.au

New deals for Liam Ryan and Jack Petruccelle have been all but agreed in principle so their names have been scrubbed off the list. - Mitch Cleary

Forget Petruccelle.
He's also not a type we should be after.

we struggle to score so how would a guy with leg speed not be required in our team?

 

[HARKER]

we struggle to score so how would a guy with leg speed not be required in our team?

He averaged just under 7 possessions a game before being ousted.
He's not the little cherry we need just yet. We need drivers....not passengers.

Anyway, let's cut him from our wish list if he's staying at WC.......Next.

 

[Foucault1989]

One observation I have is that we currently don't rotate enough guys through the midfield for short term impact, like Fisher, SPS, Gibbons, Cuningham. We have a set 5 or 6 - Cripps, Setters, Curnow, Murphy, Walsh (wing), Dow/Kennedy. I'd like to see us throw different options through the midfield throughout a game. We are pretty predictable in there. Occasionally Martin will roll through there but not as much as I'd like either. We saw last year Setters can snag a goal when rotated forward, while Fisher for example can be dynamic at stoppages - not for a full game but just to pinch hit when we are struggling to get moving.

In terms of need, my wish list is Willams for some more run and carry off half back with stints in the midfield and taking our first pick to the draft and hopefully drafting Will Phillips as an inside/outside creative mid.

I'm really keen to back organic growth from our young mids rather than throwing the kitchen sink draft picks wise at guys like Papley and Kelly. I'd like to see Walsh go more inside next year, Cunners and SPS to develop into full time mids as they offer that inside/outside balance from stoppages and have cameos from Willams and Martin throughout a game.

My ideal 2020 side:

Marchbank Jones Plowman
Docherty Weitering Willams
O Brien Cripps Williamson
Martin McKay JSOS
Gibbons Curnow Cuningham
TDK Walsh Setterfield
SPS Fisher Curnow Levi

Dow, McGovern, Cottrell, Murphy, Simpson, Newnes, Philip, Pitt, Newman, Kemp, Stocker, Will Phillips, Macreadie, Polson and Owies in the mix as well as injuries and form present.

I think the club will go hard at trade targets though

 

[HARKER]

Of all the lesser-knowns, I see Cottrell and Honey being the two players that may find a place in the main team.
That will be made somewhat more difficult if we happen to acquire both William and Papley, but they have things many others don't.

I don't see it in Goddard, Moore, O'Dwyer, BSilvagni, Polson...although Phillips does have tricks.
Will be interesting whether we hang onto him...and then there's Macreadie. Could be a huge leg up for the club if we can keep him playing and then find a way of ramping up the confidence he had early on.

 

[HBF]

Been saying all year our targets should be Papley and Williams. Nothing has changed for me in this regard.

 

[TheLeftFooters]

I'd also like to add Rory Laird to the wish list.

 

[CJMB]

I know you can upgrade a rookie to the senior list in place of one of the 3 mandatory draft picks (we’ll see if that number remains at 3 if list sizes are changing at all), so would assume Gibbons is a lock there for one.

My question is, can we do it multiple times? Could we theoretically upgrade Gibbons, Honey and Cottrell to the senior list (even 1 years deals for Honey and Cottrell) and not be required to go to the draft at all? Or is it capped at one or two upgrades negating picks?

Food for thought I guess. If we want to trade most our our 2020 pick assets this year but upgrade say 2 rookies, then take one pick with whatever we have left, perhaps we keep a second to use or something.

 

[HARKER]

I know you can upgrade a rookie to the senior list in place of one of the 3 mandatory draft picks (we’ll see if that number remains at 3 if list sizes are changing at all), so would assume Gibbons is a lock there for one.

My question is, can we do it multiple times? Could we theoretically upgrade Gibbons, Honey and Cottrell to the senior list (even 1 years deals for Honey and Cottrell) and not be required to go to the draft at all? Or is it capped at one or two upgrades negating picks?

Food for thought I guess. If we want to trade most our our 2020 pick assets this year but upgrade say 2 rookies, then take one pick with whatever we have left, perhaps we keep a second to use or something.

There may be no choice if we clip the rookie list, altogether.
There is no way known that we'd let any of Cottrell, Gibbons or Honey go, so if there isn't a rookie list next year, they'll be senior-listed.

How that all impacts the draft imperatives? Lots to play out unless it already has and I've missed it.

 

[Stamos]

I know you can upgrade a rookie to the senior list in place of one of the 3 mandatory draft picks (we’ll see if that number remains at 3 if list sizes are changing at all), so would assume Gibbons is a lock there for one.

My question is, can we do it multiple times? Could we theoretically upgrade Gibbons, Honey and Cottrell to the senior list (even 1 years deals for Honey and Cottrell) and not be required to go to the draft at all? Or is it capped at one or two upgrades negating picks?

Food for thought I guess. If we want to trade most our our 2020 pick assets this year but upgrade say 2 rookies, then take one pick with whatever we have left, perhaps we keep a second to use or something.

Previous (or current) rules are that rookie upgrades can only count as 1 of your 3 draft picks, so you have to draft a minimum of 2 in the National Draft. Who knows what will happen this year (there has been suggestions of no minimum), but unless we traded away all our early picks, your suggestion wouldn't be a sound strategy because then you would have to replace the list with later rookie picks, rather than higher ND picks.

 

[Stamos]

Lots to play out unless it already has and I've missed it.

There hasn't been any announcements yet, and given what Clarkson and other coaches have said this week, the clubs still don't know.

 

[Bleez40]

Players that need to be played in their positions for the remaining few games so we know what they can offer:

Polson- showed some signs so far. Was asked to lock down on Thomas in the Collingwood game and showed he can do this, but didn't do much offensively. Needs to be asked to run and create from HB and we'll see if he has something to work with.
SPS- We played him in defence and I understand why given our personnel, but he isn't a natural defender. Needs to be played in the middle.
Dow- Somehow always looks like he's running in cement but was played in the forward line against GWS which is pointless to me. Need to see him get a run of games in the middle.
Owies- does well in the resies and reports say he's been adding pressure to his game. Given the impending list cuts we need to see what he can offer at AFL level.

With games against Swans and Adelaide, it shouldn't be a baptism of fire for these players and have some time to work up some form before a real test against the Lions. We need to see what they can produce at AFL level in their best positions so we can plan for the trade period and also going into next season.

Chuck Honey into the forward line and O'brien onto the wing as well. Not much left to play for so need to take the opportunity to develop the talent that these two clearly have.

 

[goreds]

2 mids and a small forward.

 

[skadoosh]

22 games for Charlie.
12+ for Kemp.
LOB to solidify a best 22 spot.
Williams off half back or in the middle.
SPS to hit the gym and spend time with Walsh in training to discover his competitive edge.
Cripps go bulk up again and go back to being a contested beast.
JSOS to play 22 games.
Eddie's small forward position to be replaced. He can get in tune with whoever his replacement is and buddy up.
Setterfield to put on some muscle.
Plowman to put on some muscle.
TDK to put on some muscle.
McKay to rejig his set shot routine.
Walsh to keep being Walsh...he knows what he needs to work on, and he'll do it.
Williamson to improve his core strength and stay on his trajectory of improvement.
22 games into Fisher.

 

[Red Bull]

Have the club officially announced an extension for Murphy ?
Maybe i have missed it.
Re signings are usually cause for celebration.
Maybe they are waiting for the right moment ... like a win over the lowly placed swans/crows.
Why would they be waiting for that “right moment” ...

 

[Red Bull]

Our balance just hasn’t been right.
Many reasons for that.
For whatever reason, McKay isn’t being used as the chop out ruckman.
No idea if this is a reluctance from him or the coaches but i feel it is key to getting the balance right next season.
For mine, TDK takes the mantle.
Pittonet a good solid backup.
Kreuzer’s time is up.
Casboult 1 more season purely for emergencies.

HF : Martin Curnow Fisher
F : McGovern McKay ........

R : TDK Setterfield Dow

No Pittonet.
No Casboult.
No Kreuzer.

Skill and speed needed over size alone.
We need to bring in a genuine small forward.
Our priority should be an elite midfielder with elite delivery.

 

[Own The Future]

It has probably all been said before by others more capable than I, but the issue I have with the current team selection is this: I am a bit tired of the claims that we are losing because we are a young, relatively inexperienced side. The stats show that we are in the top 5 oldest teams put on the park week after week - granted that average is blown out by a few, but we are definitely not a young team in any way you look at it.
I know the club (and Teague in particular) have stated that we are picking the side with the best chance to win every week, not prioritising development or having an eye to the future.
I also know we as a supporter base are sick of the losing and want to know we are starting each game with a chance to win. That I am all for. But what is the point of playing the older guys when they really seem to be offering very little in the way of leadership or an ability to stem the flow of an opposition run? The reason you keep those guys on the list is meant to be twofold: offer some advice and lead by example to the kids in the team, and be able to perform when the game is on the line. Unless I’m very much mistaken this has not been happening. I look at other players in the 250 game bracket and see that they may have lost a step, but still provide the cool head under pressure: Danger, Hurn, Boak, Selwood, Josh Kennedy (x2). Then you look at 300+ gamers and see that not only do they still contribute, they are integral to their teams: Pendlebury and Mundy.
I look at our guys in this bracket and wonder if they still do.
That is why I am not in favour of keeping them all.
Time to make the hard call.
Thanks Simmo - you’ve been a stalwart through our darkest times, and have the record number of losses to show for it.
And thanks Eddie - it was awesome to see you in Navy Blue again, but the time has come to say goodbye.
Kreuz and Murph - you can stay one more year, but you won’t be guaranteed a game just because you’re fit. In fact, I’d rather if we didn’t play you at all.

Doubt this will be the case, but a man can dream.

 

[Red Bull]

It has probably all been said before by others more capable than I, but the issue I have with the current team selection is this: I am a bit tired of the claims that we are losing because we are a young, relatively inexperienced side. The stats show that we are in the top 5 oldest teams put on the park week after week - granted that average is blown out by a few, but we are definitely not a young team in any way you look at it.
I know the club (and Teague in particular) have stated that we are picking the side with the best chance to win every week, not prioritising development or having an eye to the future.
I also know we as a supporter base are sick of the losing and want to know we are starting each game with a chance to win. That I am all for. But what is the point of playing the older guys when they really seem to be offering very little in the way of leadership or an ability to stem the flow of an opposition run? The reason you keep those guys on the list is meant to be twofold: offer some advice and lead by example to the kids in the team, and be able to perform when the game is on the line. Unless I’m very much mistaken this has not been happening. I look at other players in the 250 game bracket and see that they may have lost a step, but still provide the cool head under pressure: Danger, Hurn, Boak, Selwood, Josh Kennedy (x2). Then you look at 300+ gamers and see that not only do they still contribute, they are integral to their teams: Pendlebury and Mundy.
I look at our guys in this bracket and wonder if they still do.
That is why I am not in favour of keeping them all.
Time to make the hard call.
Thanks Simmo - you’ve been a stalwart through our darkest times, and have the record number of losses to show for it.
And thanks Eddie - it was awesome to see you in Navy Blue again, but the time has come to say goodbye.
Kreuz and Murph - you can stay one more year, but you won’t be guaranteed a game just because you’re fit. In fact, I’d rather if we didn’t play you at all.

Doubt this will be the case, but a man can dream.

You’re nearly there.
Murphy and Kreuzer should join Simpson and Betts.
This team/club really need to move on now.
A fresh, fit and firing Cripps/Docherty need to take the reigns and usher in the new Carlton era and attitude ...

 

[thylacine60]

22 games for Charlie.
12+ for Kemp.
LOB to solidify a best 22 spot.
Williams off half back or in the middle.
SPS to hit the gym and spend time with Walsh in training to discover his competitive edge.
Cripps go bulk up again and go back to being a contested beast.
JSOS to play 22 games.
Eddie's small forward position to be replaced. He can get in tune with whoever his replacement is and buddy up.
Setterfield to put on some muscle.
Plowman to put on some muscle.
TDK to put on some muscle.
McKay to rejig his set shot routine.
Walsh to keep being Walsh...he knows what he needs to work on, and he'll do it.
Williamson to improve his core strength and stay on his trajectory of improvement.
22 games into Fisher.
Cottrell to go baby Hickmott.

 

[Metalcrusher]

You’re nearly there.
Murphy and Kreuzer should join Simpson and Betts.
This team/club really need to move on now.
A fresh, fit and firing Cripps/Docherty need to take the reigns and usher in the new Carlton era and attitude ...

Yep all four.

 

[Own The Future]

You’re nearly there.
Murphy and Kreuzer should join Simpson and Betts.
This team/club really need to move on now.
A fresh, fit and firing Cripps/Docherty need to take the reigns and usher in the new Carlton era and attitude ...

I believe we need 4 rucks on the list.
Two ready to play each week (TDK & Pittonet).
One as a valid backup (Kreuz).
One developing in the 2s (not yet on the list).
If we deem Casboult as a viable permanent ruck option, then Kreuz can probably go.
Still need to have another on the list.
Re Murph - he frustrates with his unwillingness to tackle and go in hard, but I do think the still offers something to the team.
Like I said in the first post, I’d be happy to have him on the list as a backup player - but he would still command a decent salary which is better used for a best 22 player.
The fact he has already signed on for 2021 makes this a moot point.

 

[fnm_just a man]

In my quest to add veterans made of the right stuff, I’ve been focusing on players we may get for value (Cost in dollars but not so much players/draft picks), coming from sides about to rebuild and who may only offer 1-2 years of top notch footy.

However, Nick Haynes is a player who gets recognition now but who has been ridiculously underrated for years. He’s 28. He will cost a fair bit - overs. He could single-handedly change the attitude of the defence and potentially the team such is his hardness. He is top level brave, tough. He is on the quiet/shy side, from what I’ve seen, so may prefer the anonymity of playing for GWS.

The time is ripe to look beyond the conservative approach and pay-up for someone who offers the tangibles, and intangibles, of a Nick Haynes, imo. The impact of the right attitude spreading through the team will be far greater than adding a young potential gun.

 

[HARKER]

In my quest to add veterans made of the right stuff, I’ve been focusing on players we may get for value (Cost in dollars but not so much players/draft picks), coming from sides about to rebuild and who may only offer 1-2 years of top notch footy.

The time is ripe to look beyond the conservative approach and pay-up for someone who offers the tangibles, and intangibles, of a Nick Haynes, imo. The impact of the right attitude spreading through the team will be far greater than adding a young potential gun.

Could....not....agree.....more.

This is exactly why I wants us to target players that bring standards along with them.
No little cherries that make good when the rest of the team are doing well, but the guys that dig in and show those around them how it's done.
Call them what you will; Winners, Drivers, Standard-setters, Impact players......we know what they are and how important these types would be.

We'd be pulling our hair out now, had we targeted someone like a Polec and just maybe we already have one in McGovern. We'll see, but we have to be looking for players with grunt and carry a load, not place that load onto another.

In answer to the question, what we wish for? (I'd say insist upon but....)

1. Development.
2. Development.
3. Fit and injury free squad - relatively speaking.
4. Development.
5. Players like Williams or Papley.

If we don't start to extract the best out of players Stocker, Dow, O'Brien, McGovern, SPS etc, then a player here or there isn't going to make the difference.