2020 Non-Crows AFL Discussion

[Mutineer]

those short nuggety guys that can tackle and have aggression, but dont have the skills or the class, how many of them actually work out to be elite mids?

Sam Mitchell is one because he could kick off both feet and short passing game was great and Caleb Daniel is ok but where are the other sub 180cm elite mids in this era of footy? Lachie Neale and that's about it, and we passed on him.

We need Cripps Fyfe Danger Martin type mids, we dont have any on the list that could even become that good.

we picked Jones who was short and he is going to be a great player, but to pick 2 short mids in super draft is a little misguided

Dayne Zorko, Tom Mitchell, Dion Prestia, Zach Merrett, Touk Miller, Devon Smith, Jake Lloyd, Jade Gresham etc....there's more than you think....reckon we could find a list spot for them.

 

[Scorpus]

those short nuggety guys that can tackle and have aggression, but dont have the skills or the class, how many of them actually work out to be elite mids?

Sam Mitchell is one because he could kick off both feet and short passing game was great and Caleb Daniel is ok but where are the other sub 180cm elite mids in this era of footy? Lachie Neale and that's about it, and we passed on him.

We need Cripps Fyfe Danger Martin type mids, we dont have any on the list that could even become that good.

we picked Jones who was short and he is going to be a great player, but to pick 2 short mids in super draft is a little misguided

Calling Jones "short" is a little ridiculous. He's 2-3cm shorter than players like Sloane, Tim Kelly, Coniglio, Parker, Gaff, Treloar, Tom Mitchell and many others

 

[ams4crows]

Calling Jones "short" is a little ridiculous. He's 2-3cm shorter than players like Sloane, Tim Kelly, Coniglio, Parker, Gaff, Treloar, Tom Mitchell and many others

He is one of the shorter mids at 181cm though when the average is 2-3 cm more, just like 193cm kpp are considered short compared to the average

 

[Scorpus]

He is one of the shorter mids at 181cm though when the average is 2-3 cm more, just like 193cm kpp are considered short compared to the average

I wouldn't class 2cm below the average as "short".

Short midfielders are guys like Lachie Neale, Dayne Zorko and Dion Prestia

 

[Thetrader15]

I wouldn't class 2cm below the average as "short".

Short midfielders are guys like Lachie Neale, Dayne Zorko and Dion Prestia

Caleb Daniel will never make it either

 

[Dudersaurus]

At drafting time, wasn't McHenry sold as a small forward, with Ballantyne overtones and good tackling? I see the Ballantyne comparison as apt. Perhaps, Bicks can comment.

Pretty sure that was Butters. Maybe Ned also, but definitely the Ballantyne comparison was made about Butters.

Remember being very happy we missed him because of that.

 

[1970crow]

those short nuggety guys that can tackle and have aggression, but dont have the skills or the class, how many of them actually work out to be elite mids?

Sam Mitchell is one because he could kick off both feet and short passing game was great and Caleb Daniel is ok but where are the other sub 180cm elite mids in this era of footy? Lachie Neale and that's about it, and we passed on him.

We need Cripps Fyfe Danger Martin type mids, we dont have any on the list that could even become that good.

we picked Jones who was short and he is going to be a great player, but to pick 2 short mids in super draft is a little misguided

Picking high quality footballers is much more important than filling perceived centimetre needs. Height is nowhere near as important as decision making and execution. If a mid has those 2 attributes, I’d choose speed as a physical attribute over height every day of the week. Height is the icing on a cake, nothing more. You don’t knock back a Lachie Neale just because you think you need a taller mid in the mix.

 

[Geoffa32]

those short nuggety guys that can tackle and have aggression, but dont have the skills or the class, how many of them actually work out to be elite mids?

Sam Mitchell is one because he could kick off both feet and short passing game was great and Caleb Daniel is ok but where are the other sub 180cm elite mids in this era of footy? Lachie Neale and that's about it, and we passed on him.

We need Cripps Fyfe Danger Martin type mids, we dont have any on the list that could even become that good.

we picked Jones who was short and he is going to be a great player, but to pick 2 short mids in super draft is a little misguided

We should have gone Jones and Hately IMO.

For me picking Jones is not an issue. He has a very competitive attitude and has shown he belongs at AFL level.

Using our next pick on the smaller McHenry is the issue. He may end up a good mid as well. But we need a 190cm mid and Hately was that pick.

Jones and Hately is a better mix than Jones and McHenry.

Edit. Realised Hately taken before Ned. But we could have gone Hately first and Jones may have been there at our second pick.

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[Geoffa32]

Picking high quality footballers is much more important than filling perceived centimetre needs. Height is nowhere near as important as decision making and execution. If a mid has those 2 attributes, I’d choose speed as a physical attribute over height every day of the week. Height is the icing on a cake, nothing more. You don’t knock back a Lachie Neale just because you think you need a taller mid in the mix.

Do you knock back Lachie Neale if you already have plenty of guys with similar physical attributes on your list. But not one tall mid.

It is not just height, but the bigger body also helps the smaller guys in congestion.


For me it is not one body type over the other, but a good mix of both.


We lack that mix.

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[briztoon]

You saw it at the last draft, Geelong, Carlton and Richmond passing on Deven Robertson and Schoenberg, for taller, but lesser rated mids that met a list need.

If Schoenberg was 5cm taller, he’d probably have been a top 10 or 12 pick.

There is an interesting discussion on one draft/list management podcast about drafting hieght.

 

[Betts are off]

Oh boy, I just watched the WB vs North Highlights. I have to say the Bulldogs team has developed a pretty damn handy list. 1 superstar, and then you could probably throw a blanket over 12 guys in the next bracket!

If they could get even a slightly above serviceable output from one or 2 of their tall forwards then it wouldn't surprise me if they are right at the pointy end this season!

 

[GreyCrow]

You saw it at the last draft, Geelong, Carlton and Richmond passing on Deven Robertson and Schoenberg, for taller, but lesser rated mids that met a list need.

If Schoenberg was 5cm taller, he’d probably have been a top 10 or 12 pick.

There is an interesting discussion on one draft/list management podcast about drafting hieght.

That was Trends when they interviewed Marty Pash

Talked about the change in just 10 years from 192 being kpp height to now midfield height

 

[BRL121]

That was Trends when they interviewed Marty Pash

Talked about the change in just 10 years from 192 being kpp height to now midfield height

In the old days, you had one of each. Apart from the knock ruckman, the norm was a bigger, bullocking ruck-rover, together with a smaller, fast rover, who was also expected to kick goals.

 

[cleanhands]

In the old days, you had one of each. Apart from the knock ruckman, the norm was a bigger, bullocking ruck-rover, together with a smaller, fast rover, who was also expected to kick goals.

Problem?

 

[BRL121]

Problem?

No problem at all. There is clearly a place for bigger and smaller midfielders in the modern game, provided they can football. I was just pointing out that this was the norm years ago.

 

[Mutineer]

We should have gone Jones and Hately IMO.

For me picking Jones is not an issue. He has a very competitive attitude and has shown he belongs at AFL level.

Using our next pick on the smaller McHenry is the issue. He may end up a good mid as well. But we need a 190cm mid and Hately was that pick.

Jones and Hately is a better mix than Jones and McHenry.

Edit. Realised Hately taken before Ned. But we could have gone Hately first and Jones may have been there at our second pick.

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Absolutely zero chance Chayce was there at Neddy's pick, ZERO.

If we hadn't taken Chayce Jye Caldwell would have been wearing a Crows jumper.

I doubt Hately was ever in contention for us personally looking at our ultimate picks where speed and running power seemed to be where our recruiters were at.

 

[Mutineer]

He is one of the shorter mids at 181cm though when the average is 2-3 cm more, just like 193cm kpp are considered short compared to the average

Are you seriously suggesting an inch or an inch and half in the old height wise is of consequence on the footy field? Strength isn't height dependent, the real advantage of height in a contested midfield situation is the ability to get your hands above the tackle for the dish off.

 

[Crow till I die]

Absolutely zero chance Chayce was there at Neddy's pick, ZERO.

If we hadn't taken Chayce Jye Caldwell would have been wearing a Crows jumper.

I doubt Hately was ever in contention for us personally looking at our ultimate picks where speed and running power seemed to be where our recruiters were at.

If you had been in the boots of our recruiters, would you have gone McHenry or Duursma at pick 16?

 

[GROTTO]

If you had been in the boots of our recruiters, would you have gone McHenry or Duursma at pick 16?

 

[Mutineer]

If you had been in the boots of our recruiters, would you have gone McHenry or Duursma at pick 16?

Haha Everyone would say Duursma with the advantage of hindsight and I'd probably lean that way even before they'd played but I'm still very comfortable with us taking Neddy with the importance we're placing on defensive pressure these days. I might have passed them both over at that point in the draft for Riley Collier-Dawkins if I'm being perfectly honest as I thought he'd have gone earlier.

 

[Crow till I die]

Haha Everyone would say Duursma with the advantage of hindsight and I'd probably lean that way even before they'd played but I'm still very comfortable with us taking Neddy with the importance we're placing on defensive pressure these days. I might have passed them both over at that point in the draft for Riley Collier-Dawkins if I'm being perfectly honest as I thought he'd have gone earlier.

fair enough. I asked you that question as you have your finger on the pulse regarding the U18's and would have had a far better picture of both McHenry and Duursma than many of us would have had prior to the draft. And yes, from all that I heard and read, I was amazed RCD went so late and no doubt as he develops Richmond have got a steal there!!

 

[Thetrader15]

fair enough. I asked you that question as you have your finger on the pulse regarding the U18's and would have had a far better picture of both McHenry and Duursma than many of us would have had prior to the draft. And yes, from all that I heard and read, I was amazed RCD went so late and no doubt as he develops Richmond have got a steal there!!

IIRC, Ned was tipped to go late teens, rather than early.

 

[briztoon]

That was Trends when they interviewed Marty Pash

Talked about the change in just 10 years from 192 being kpp height to now midfield height

Different podcast.

 

[Geoffa32]

Absolutely zero chance Chayce was there at Neddy's pick, ZERO.

If we hadn't taken Chayce Jye Caldwell would have been wearing a Crows jumper.

I doubt Hately was ever in contention for us personally looking at our ultimate picks where speed and running power seemed to be where our recruiters were at.

This is an issue..Haggis and co, seem to like small and speedy mids.

Success in the competition demands you need a mix of these guys and bigger mids.


Our drafting of mids in the last five years has been poor. The result is we have the worst midfield in the comp.

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[Mutineer]

This is an issue..Haggis and co, seem to like small and speedy mids.

Success in the competition demands you need a mix of these guys and bigger mids.


Our drafting of mids in the last five years has been poor. The result is we have the worst midfield in the comp.

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That's your opinion, you're entitled to that....the common denominator in those 5 years apart from the players is?

Ronin O'Connor - Midfielder - 191cm
Lachlan Gollant - Medfielder/Defender - 191cm

Edit : I might add we've had 2 All Australian mids in that 5 year period as well