List Mgmt. 2020 Trade Watch

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Current no. of players on the list
Senior list - 34 (2-4 free*)
Rookie (Cat A) - 4 (0-2 free*)
Rookie (Cat B) - 2 (0 free)
Maximum list size of 44. Up to 36-38 senior list, 4-6 category A rookie list and 2 category B rookie list.
* Total of four list spots available, with a minimum of 2 senior list spots needing to be utilised.

List changes
IN: Daniher, Cockatoo, Uosis (R)
OUT: Christensen, Wooller, Allison (R), Skinner (R), Eagles (R), C. Lyons (R), Martin, Witherden, Cox, Hinge.
PROMOTED: Fullarton.
ROOKIED: Birchall, Mathieson, Ballendan.

Current picks
25, 53, 58, 69, 70
(2021 - 1st (MEL), 1st, 3rd (WCE), 3rd, 4th (MEL), 4th (COLL), 5th)

Useful links
2020 trade news compendium
List changes, contract status and key dates
2020 draft discussion thread
 
Last edited:

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Ray Button said:
I rather suspect that with Hinge going/gone, the Lions might be wishing they had held on to Stef . . .
Click to expand...
Yep, just a ridiculous decision to force Stef out given the circumstances.

God help us if McInerney goes down and even then, he has nothing on Stef. One only needs to look at him being schooled by a non-ruckman (Tom Hawkins) in his last game against Geelong.
 
Tom14 said:
Couldn't disagree more with this piece but I don't think it is poorly written or anything - it just drastically overrates Witherden and Stef Martin of this year:

www.statsinsider.com.au

Will The Brisbane Lions' Tame Off-Season Come Back To Bite Them?

Footy is relevant in Brisbane again, and the Lions are building something undeniably special. Yet in comparison with their Finals brethren, there was something rather hollow about their approach to this year’s trade period.
www.statsinsider.com.au www.statsinsider.com.au
Click to expand...

the Daniher question re poor kicking niggles away at me, along with him being another left foot kick.

Can see opposition blocking the left and allowing marks in the right hand side knowing that statistically it’s our weak spot.
 
Mr Ripper said:
Can someone remind me, what's the point of a rookie list again?
Click to expand...
These days? It operates more prominently as a salary dump - the minimum rookie wage (80k ish IIRC) doesn't count towards the cap, so it means you save 80k each for each contracted senior-listed player you successfully shift there, whilst also giving other teams the chance to completely remove players off your books that you were probably ambivalent about keeping.

Given you can now internally shift 2 players from the senior to the rookie list, that second part is now largely moot.
 
jonnobackpocket said:
Let me get this right- you would rather 34 year old Martin, Witho and Hinge (both who could not get a game) on the list rather than Joe Daniher and Cockatoo? So do you want a crack at the flag or a good culture (even though it appears our players could not be happier) and less talent on the list?
Click to expand...
So getting Daniher and Cockatoo was contingent on forcing out Martin and Witherden was it? As for Daniher (pretty average bloke by all accounts, not to to mention unprofessional) and Cockatoo (barely gets on the park); that is some almighty hopium that they're going to play much given they could only muster 17 games between them out of a possible 140 odd in the past 3 years.

We have no back up rucks (let's not pretend that Smith is the answer) to McInerney (who was schooled in the ruck against Tom Hawkins in his last game) and I'd argue that Witherden should've been retained, particularly at the expense of Birchall and Ah Chee, who were deadset average this year and Rich, who will be lucky to have a couple of years in him.

As for winning a flag; sure you might win one with an average culture (just ask the AFL enabled Western Bulldogs in 2016) but you won't have a sustained period of success as the Lions did from 99-04 or the Hawks (08-15) or even the Cats for a prolonged period without a strong culture. I'd much rather the latter with a stable list and club than just pinching one and go crashing back down to the bottom four and given our form of being a perennial bottom 4 club for a sustained period of time from 05-18 (save for 09), surely having a strong culture is imperative to all else. I guess I'm just crazy though.
 
Dylan12 said:
So getting Daniher and Cockatoo was contingent on forcing out Martin and Witherden was it? As for Daniher (pretty average bloke by all accounts, not to to mention unprofessional) and Cockatoo (barely gets on the park); that is some almighty hopium that they're going to play much given they could only muster 17 games between them out of a possible 140 odd in the past 3 years.

We have no back up rucks (let's not pretend that Smith is the answer) to McInerney (who was schooled in the ruck against Tom Hawkins in his last game) and I'd argue that Witherden should've been retained, particularly at the expense of Birchall and Ah Chee, who were deadset average this year and Rich, who will be lucky to have a couple of years in him.

As for winning a flag; sure you might win one with an average culture (just ask the AFL enabled Western Bulldogs in 2016) but you won't have a sustained period of success as the Lions did from 99-04 or the Hawks (08-15) or even the Cats for a prolonged period without a strong culture. I'd much rather the latter with a stable list and club than just pinching one and go crashing back down to the bottom four and given our form of being a perennial bottom 4 club for a sustained period of time from 05-18 (save for 09), surely having a strong culture is imperative to all else. I guess I'm just crazy though.
Click to expand...

Dylan I don't want to pull out all your quotes on witherden again but I will if I have to. I'm not sure how you go from calling Witherden arrogant, lazy, unfit and suddenly he is a required player after a year in which he was in and out of the 22.
 
Also I haven't seen anyone say Daniher is unprofessional and an average bloke apart from salty essendon fans who have been emotionally throwing the toys out of the cot for two offseasons about his likely departure.

I thought he came across as a quite genuine person in his interview on the Roar Deal but I wouldn't pretend that that gives me a great insight into whether he is a good bloke or not.
 
Clarkythelion said:
I think you will find him the real deal. It's been a bit about the team 'needs' that have held him back.
We needed Luke Hodge and then Birtchell to help development and infield leadership.
Starcevich had to come in as he has flexibility to move up the field.
Answerth offered speed and could move up the field.
Ahh Chee offers speed and can already play forward and back.
Rich is well needed with his long range work
Lester grew another leg this year no surprise him and Hinge are the un-contracted ones.
The reserve grade got little chance against decent opposition to develop.
Witherden was there and we also had to blood another tall in Payne and found a beauty.
Adams will presumably be back from his foot injury.

Hinge is good, just a traffic jam ahead of him where the Lions probably have the most depth and he didn't get a chance to show he also could play other positions.

I feel he is the 'later' blooming type. Didn't look out of place at the top level when given a chance would be a shame to see him go but as the Lions have show these days, we do what's best for the player and a decent contract at the Crows would be good for him.
Click to expand...

Well, it seems like we've offered that (or at least a little bit more security than Brisbane). That said, it seems like Hinge is walking from one traffic jam to a less congested traffic jam. We seem to have better youth floating around our defence at the moment compared to midfield or forward.

What's the likelihood of Hinge being a midfielder/winger or he is only a defender?
 
Archie Smith will be turning it on next season, like Stef did after moving over to us. Not too far now... 💪🏾💪🏾💪🏾
 
Golumless said:
Well, it seems like we've offered that (or at least a little bit more security than Brisbane). That said, it seems like Hinge is walking from one traffic jam to a less congested traffic jam. We seem to have better youth floating around our defence at the moment compared to midfield or forward.

What's the likelihood of Hinge being a midfielder/winger or he is only a defender?
Click to expand...

He's always been more of a winger than a defender.
 

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Golumless said:
Well, it seems like we've offered that (or at least a little bit more security than Brisbane). That said, it seems like Hinge is walking from one traffic jam to a less congested traffic jam. We seem to have better youth floating around our defence at the moment compared to midfield or forward.

What's the likelihood of Hinge being a midfielder/winger or he is only a defender?
Click to expand...
Could definitely play on the wing.
He is actually pretty hard at it. And is a good user of the ball.
 
Tom14 said:
Also I haven't seen anyone say Daniher is unprofessional and an average bloke apart from salty essendon fans who have been emotionally throwing the toys out of the cot for two offseasons about his likely departure.

I thought he came across as a quite genuine person in his interview on the Roar Deal but I wouldn't pretend that that gives me a great insight into whether he is a good bloke or not.
Click to expand...
Even before Daniher joined Brisbane, I know people at the club who weren't at all complimentary of his attitude and unprofessional work ethic, particularly off-field when it came to rehabilitation and do everything it took to get back on-field.

I'm genuinely surprised that we'd even contemplate such a character.

On Cockatoo, sure we may get back on the park as we did with McCarthy, but to me at least, it just reeks of another continual roll of the dice that is going to catch us out at some point with limited list sizes. We are already unnecessarily carrying Adams and we potentially will be with Daniher and Cockatoo.
 
Tom14 said:
Also I haven't seen anyone say Daniher is unprofessional and an average bloke apart from salty essendon fans who have been emotionally throwing the toys out of the cot for two offseasons about his likely departure.

I thought he came across as a quite genuine person in his interview on the Roar Deal but I wouldn't pretend that that gives me a great insight into whether he is a good bloke or not.
Click to expand...

Goddard questioned his professionalism last year when it came to his rehab. Though Goddard does like to run his mouth a bit.

I don't doubt that he'd lost some of his passion and motivation for the game while at Essendon. I posted a thing a while back that showed that 2017 was essentially his only non-ASADA and non-injury impacted year. I think it's going to be a good change for him.
 
Dylan12 said:
Even before Daniher joined Brisbane, I know people at the club who weren't at all complimentary of his attitude and unprofessional work ethic, particularly off-field when it came to rehabilitation and do everything it took to get back on-field.

I'm genuinely surprised that we'd even contemplate such a character.

On Cockatoo, sure we may get back on the park as we did with McCarthy, but to me at least, it just reeks of another continual roll of the dice that is going to catch us out at some point with limited list sizes. We are already unnecessarily carrying Adams and we potentially will be with Daniher and Cockatoo.
Click to expand...
Apparently Cockatoo played for the Geelong reserves during the year but was not chosen to play in the 1sts. Daniher played the last 4 games for Essendon . So this probably shows that they are at the end of their rehabilitation period and it will be now a matter of managing their bodies.
 
Dylan12 said:
So getting Daniher and Cockatoo was contingent on forcing out Martin and Witherden was it? As for Daniher (pretty average bloke by all accounts, not to to mention unprofessional) and Cockatoo (barely gets on the park); that is some almighty hopium that they're going to play much given they could only muster 17 games between them out of a possible 140 odd in the past 3 years.

We have no back up rucks (let's not pretend that Smith is the answer) to McInerney (who was schooled in the ruck against Tom Hawkins in his last game) and I'd argue that Witherden should've been retained, particularly at the expense of Birchall and Ah Chee, who were deadset average this year and Rich, who will be lucky to have a couple of years in him.

As for winning a flag; sure you might win one with an average culture (just ask the AFL enabled Western Bulldogs in 2016) but you won't have a sustained period of success as the Lions did from 99-04 or the Hawks (08-15) or even the Cats for a prolonged period without a strong culture. I'd much rather the latter with a stable list and club than just pinching one and go crashing back down to the bottom four and given our form of being a perennial bottom 4 club for a sustained period of time from 05-18 (save for 09), surely having a strong culture is imperative to all else. I guess I'm just crazy though.
Click to expand...
Who has confirmed he is an ordinary bloke- was caught up in the ASADA rubbish and then injured. That unprofessional he was all Australian when fit? Yep it’s somewhat of a risk
With Cockatoo but what if it works? He is a better player than any we have flicked. Archie Smith is the definition of a back up ruckman. Witho was overpaid and not bringing a lot to the table- the coaches were not playing blokes ahead of him due to some vendetta. Not sure how not keeping blokes who could not get a game results to poor culture. Every team does it every year. I appreciate the club does not get everything right and happy to say when I think they have not. You attack everything they do negatively before it’s even happened. Sometimes it’s a wait and see rather than ‘they have
F$d this up’ on no evidence.
 
Johnny Bananas said:
www.afl.com.au

Cut Lion goes to Crows as Brisbane delists five, re-signs veteran

Brisbane temporarily removes contract of three players, re-signs one, cuts two
www.afl.com.au www.afl.com.au


Can't blame the guy for picking a better offer with more playing time in his home state.
Click to expand...
Yes, 100%, cannot blame him, or any fringe player at all. I mentioned a few weeks ago I thought Witho and Hinge would go this year, seeking opportunities somewhere else. This was the danger with consistently playing Birchall. I have some concerns for Answerth next year, but the removing from the senior list of Birchall for 2021 negates that a little as it might be an indication that Answerth or a couple of the younger players will get a chance.
With the 2 year extension of Lester, and Adams still with 2 years on his contract, Lions need to decide where Payne fits in, because I suspect he will will seek opportunities for 2022, if not getting semi-regular or regular AFL exposure in 2021, and you could not blame him for seeking a permanent opportunity.
 
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