Draft 2021 AFLW Draft discussion

[The_Wookie]

Hi guys,

the live Draft thread is now open here.

Draft - The 2021 AFLW National Draft, 6.45pm AEST on womens.afl & the AFLW app

Click for a Full list of drafted players >> ============================ The 2021 AFLW Draft will take place on Tuesday, July 27 in a virtual format, commencing at 6.45pm AEST on womens.afl and the AFLW Official App. Like last year, it will be a studio show, hosted by Nat Edwards, Sarah...

www.bigfooty.com

 

[Teen Wolf]

I read this part as meaning they can’t trade out picks 1-5, presumably to avoid a club with lesser need trading up for Prespakis and/or Rowbottom types and skewing the Victorian draft order.

I assume but am less certain it also means they can’t trade out the priority picks themselves but can trade out their later picks.

Likewise can’t say that I entirely see the logic, but will see how it impacts the trade period and final draft order before I take a view on whether it is more than a token equalisation attempt.

So IF St.Kilda were to lure Marinoff how are they supposed to trade for her? Are Adelaide expected to take a sh*t pick or does the whole trade get quashed.
Marinoff is going to make St.Kilda a far more competitive team than another pick - even if it is Prespakis or Rowbottom.

Adelaide would probably still get screwed in normal circumstances because draft picks are usually meaningless to them in their own zone, but in general it seems like this rule has the potential to do more harm than good.

The hypothetical I was thinking of: Ruby Schleicher decides she wants to go back to WA, doesn't care which club. Fremantle can offer pick 14 but West Coast can only offer pick 21. Collingwood would obviously trade with Freo. West Coast get screwed.

If it's just the first 5 priority picks that can't be traded, at least it's less extreme but still seems like a totally needless and unhelpful obstacle.

 

[jatz14]

I'm not sure I fully understand what this means:


But I'm pretty sure I don't understand the reasoning behind it at all. Last year's method of on-trading priority picks for decent established players actually worked, just needed more of it.

This won't do sh*t, unless there's something yet to be revealed about where Geelong and GC are going to draft their players from.

There is an inherent flaw with trading draft picks for players in the AFLW. Especially when it's compulsory like last year, which was a disaster averted rather than a success imop.

First, as semi pros, players need to be able and willing to move across country, most are not.

Eagles got McCarthy, because being Irish, and in Australia just for footy, there was nothing tying her to Melbourne. But if McCarthy wasn't available, who could they get.

Gold Coast traded in a few players, but the bulk were people that were moving to Queensland for other reasons.

Second, pick order doesn't matter as much to some clubs. It makes no sense for the Crows to trade picks in, or GWS. An extra pick for the Lions is of less value than an extra pick to Collingwood. So that is an immediate imbalance. Some clubs, but only some, can boost their draft hand enormously by trading for priority picks, and do it for an undervalue player, as their is a good chance there will not be much competition for the trade.

On moto g(6) plus using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[Vacuous Space]

Is this the draft order now?:
EDIT: Deleted very wrong draft order.

 

[TBOW]

Is this the draft order now?:
First Round
1. Gold Coast
2. Geelong
3. West Coast
4. St Kilda
5. Richmond
6. (Priority) - Gold Coast
7. GWS
8. (Priority) - Geelong
9. Western Bulldogs
10. (Priority) - Gold Coast
11. Carlton
12. (Priority) - Geelong
13. North Melbourne
14. Fremantle
15. Melbourne
16. Collingwood
17. Adelaide
18. Brisbane

Second Round
19. Gold Coast
20. Geelong
21. West Coast
22. St Kilda
23. Richmond
24. West Coast [Edit: missed this pick]
25. GWS
26. (Priority) St Kilda
27. Western Bulldogs
28. (Priority) Richmond
29. Carlton
(Then on as normal after that, [edit: other than a WC pick in the third round])

https://mcusercontent.com/7cd32ad25..._SELECTION_ORDER_AS_OF_FRIDAY_MAY_14_2021.pdf

 

[Vacuous Space]

https://mcusercontent.com/7cd32ad25..._SELECTION_ORDER_AS_OF_FRIDAY_MAY_14_2021.pdf

Thanks. I have clearly trained my brain to ignore the mid article links on the official site.

 

[Munga]

Hopefully these clubs that develop these players can hold on to them when the new clubs enter the comp.

 

[Teen Wolf]

Especially when it's compulsory like last year, which was a disaster averted rather than a success imop.

What disaster, it was a free hit. The worse thing that could have happened was the Bulldogs drafting Isabelle Pritchard by false pretence. Oh the humanity.

Eagles got McCarthy, because being Irish, and in Australia just for footy, there was nothing tying her to Melbourne. But if McCarthy wasn't available, who could they get.

For a start: Aileen Gilroy, Sarah Rowe, etc.

Somehow every team can find the means to lure an Alicia Eva or a Lauren Arnell or an Alison Drennan (and so on) interstate when the motivation is really thrust upon them. But I admit it's much easier to just load up on draft picks and then blame the talent pool if it doesn't work out.

Second, pick order doesn't matter as much to some clubs. It makes no sense for the Crows to trade picks in, or GWS. An extra pick for the Lions is of less value than an extra pick to Collingwood. So that is an immediate imbalance. Some clubs, but only some, can boost their draft hand enormously by trading for priority picks, and do it for an undervalue player, as their is a good chance there will not be much competition for the trade.

Except that's not how it's ever gone down in any AFLW trade. The AFL has final say and they've stepped in before to ensure fair deals get done.

 

[PMBangers]

The compensation for the Suns is shit if that's it, unless they're making Queensland an open slather rather than nominate Brisbane or Gold Coast, in which case the clubs probably stick to their own players anyway. They need financial aid as compensation so they can fund a decent player or two moving up to Queensland so they're not just relying on 18-year-olds to be near instant fixes. I'd also have just given West Coast another first rounder before Fremantle, give them that injection of youth from a strong WA crop and encourage them to look to poach a Freo player or two as well. Saints and Richmond I was worried what compensation they'd get, but those extra 2nd's where they'll likely take older (19+) year olds with anyway, or it'll encourage them to take older players with their later picks, is probably fair enough

 

[Pie 4 Life]

The compensation for the Suns is sh*t if that's it, unless they're making Queensland an open slather rather than nominate Brisbane or Gold Coast, in which case the clubs probably stick to their own players anyway. They need financial aid as compensation so they can fund a decent player or two moving up to Queensland so they're not just relying on 18-year-olds to be near instant fixes. I'd also have just given West Coast another first rounder before Fremantle, give them that injection of youth from a strong WA crop and encourage them to look to poach a Freo player or two as well. Saints and Richmond I was worried what compensation they'd get, but those extra 2nd's where they'll likely take older (19+) year olds with anyway, or it'll encourage them to take older players with their later picks, is probably fair enough

Gold Coast should take a long look at Georgia Nanscawen, because adding her in with Teagan Levi gives them a couple more readymade mids. They need a few more chips though, so need to get creative at the trade table.

 

[PMBangers]

Gold Coast should take a long look at Georgia Nanscawen, because adding her in with Teagan Levi gives them a couple more readymade mids. They need a few more chips though, so need to get creative at the trade table.

They'd also genuinely do well with looking at some overaged state leaguers from around the traps, I'm sure there are plenty willing to move to realise their dream

 

[Pie 4 Life]

They'd also genuinely do well with looking at some overaged state leaguers from around the traps, I'm sure there are plenty willing to move to realise their dream

Yeah as you know speaking to some 18/19 YOs in SA/WA they’re up for it, particularly WA knowing there isn’t another expansion in the state to come.

 

[Vacuous Space]

Gold Coast should take a long look at Georgia Nanscawen...

On that note, I don't understand why the mature aged prelists were limited to Queensland for GC and 'their region' (whatever that means) for Geelong.

 

[Pie 4 Life]

On that note, I don't understand why the mature aged prelists were limited to Queensland for GC and 'their region' (whatever that means) for Geelong.

I presume they would mean 19YOs as well possibly. Could grab Renee Tierney for nothing as example from the Falcons, though they've got some great VFLW listers in the Geelong VFLW program. Gold Coast it's not that crash hot as they pretty much will just do it anyway with the nomination.

I think there will be a number of players plucked from VFLW into their aligned clubs tbh. There's a few I'd take to the bank right now.

 

[Pie 4 Life]

Speaking of, the 2021 Ones to Watch piece:

draftcentral.com.au

This domain may be for sale!

afl.draftcentral.com.au

 

[Munga]

Can someone explain how the hell Geelong get 3 picks in the top 9, but the Saints only get 1 in the top 20??!!

Club - Total Wins - Total Matched
Geelong - 6 - 22
St Kilda 5 - 15

 

[Stan Judkins]

Can someone explain how the hell Geelong get 3 picks in the top 9, but the Saints only get 1 in the top 20??!!

Club - Total Wins - Total Matched
Geelong - 6 - 22
St Kilda 5 - 15

Probably because the AFL see Saints as having all of victoria to pick players from, where as Cats only draft Geelong falcons predominately or Murray Bushrangers rarely
Olivia Purcell is leaving and she's one of their best mids
Geelong will probably draft Tess Craven, Annie Lee, Poppy Schaap, Renee Tierney and Elizabeth Dowling, all Geelong Falcons within their first 5 picks, so it's no big deal for the other Victorian clubs
While Saints & Tigers will raffle off Prespakis & Rowbottom,
Which scenario do the Saints prefer, any of Geelong's picks or the raffle for the 2 best players in Victoria?
And with the proviso of no trading of 1st 5 picks for getting those concessions, i can understand the AFL's rationale in how they've gone about it
Saints in Vic picks have 2, 12, and 14, so that's 3 in the top 20, not too shabby you'd think
Cats in Vic picks have 1, 4, 5 and 11, plus at least Demons 1st for Purcell (if that's where she's going)

 

[Vacuous Space]

Probably because the AFL see Saints as having all of victoria to pick players from, where as Cats only draft Geelong falcons predominately or Murray Bushrangers rarely
Geelong will probably draft Tess Craven, Annie Lee and Poppy Schaap all Geelong Falcons with their first 3 picks, all Rd 1

I don't see the Cats as being locked in on Falcons as much as they're country focused. Geelong's the best country team. Aside from a couple of Bushies, they took Van De Heuvel and Caris from the Rebels in their first draft. They may not have taken any Pioneers, but, in fairness, I don't think anybody has drafted Pios since the Cats came in. Slender is going to get drafted and I think she's very likely to be at in the running when the Cats take their priority picks - if she's even still there.

With all the concessions, the Cats have to take the risk on Prespakis or Rowbottom - and I think that was part of the point of the concessions. Geelong have already amassed local and country talent and they can get more of that later. The top pick is their chance to get that superstar player for at least a year and hopefully longer. I think the concessions have set things up perfectly for the top three picks to go Metro so the Cats still land whoever they deem as the two best of the Country kids. They may be able to get Lee with a pick from the Purcell trade, possibly even their second round pick.

I said earlier in the thread that I thought they'd do well to get two of Dojiok/Friend/Slender and, hopefully, Craven and Lee. At this point, I think they can take Prespakis or Rowbottom and still get two of the first group and maybe both of the Falcons as well - although they may have to use a priority pick on Craven, the way she's going. They'll get a couple of mature agers. Their VFLW side is going really well and a lot of their recent draftees are leading the way. I think Geelong is going to fine now, the only question I have is were they given too much.

Saints and Tigers are probably next in line for assistance if they struggle next season. If Cats do take one of the Metro girls, the Saints will have the easiest pick in the Vic draft for the third year running. I'm guessing the Tiges take Reid. After that, who knows? They're both young lists that may need a hand along the way. I can understand being frustrated, but i think both teams showed enough positive signs to focus more on fixing other problems.

 

[Stan Judkins]

I don't see the Cats as being locked in on Falcons as much as they're country focused. Geelong's the best country team. Aside from a couple of Bushies, they took Van De Heuvel and Caris from the Rebels in their first draft. They may not have taken any Pioneers, but, in fairness, I don't think anybody has drafted Pios since the Cats came in. Slender is going to get drafted and I think she's very likely to be at in the running when the Cats take their priority picks - if she's even still there.

With all the concessions, the Cats have to take the risk on Prespakis or Rowbottom - and I think that was part of the point of the concessions. Geelong have already amassed local and country talent and they can get more of that later. The top pick is their chance to get that superstar player for at least a year and hopefully longer. I think the concessions have set things up perfectly for the top three picks to go Metro so the Cats still land whoever they deem as the two best of the Country kids. They may be able to get Lee with a pick from the Purcell trade, possibly even their second round pick.

I said earlier in the thread that I thought they'd do well to get two of Dojiok/Friend/Slender and, hopefully, Craven and Lee. At this point, I think they can take Prespakis or Rowbottom and still get two of the first group and maybe both of the Falcons as well - although they may have to use a priority pick on Craven, the way she's going. They'll get a couple of mature agers. Their VFLW side is going really well and a lot of their recent draftees are leading the way. I think Geelong is going to fine now, the only question I have is were they given too much.

Saints and Tigers are probably next in line for assistance if they struggle next season. If Cats do take one of the Metro girls, the Saints will have the easiest pick in the Vic draft for the third year running. I'm guessing the Tiges take Reid. After that, who knows? They're both young lists that may need a hand along the way. I can understand being frustrated, but i think both teams showed enough positive signs to focus more on fixing other problems.

I dunno, the way i looked at it, was Geelong aren't going to risk taking a shot on Prespakis and/or Rowbottom as there are a few very good Falcon girls
The AFL said okay "we'll give you a few extra picks within the 1st Rd so you can take the best of the Falcons"
There doesn't seem to be any other reason why they have a draft hand in Victoria of 1, 4, 5 and 11 and the directive of not being able to trade their first 5 picks (1, 4, 5 11 and 21)
Also we are not that naive to think that Geelong hasn't already made contact with Prespakis and/or Rowbottoms managers to see where they stand on moving down that way
I'm tipping the managers said "NO THANKS"
The Cats haven't risked picking ANY VIC METRO REGION PLAYERS EVER, so the chances are slim for a pick on a Cannon or Charger player
They have been drafting only Falcons, Bushrangers, Rebels and their VFLW

This is their drafting since they entered the comp in 2018:
2020
Falcons 4
Bushrangers 1

2019
Falcons 2
Bushrangers 1 F/D
Cats VFLW 1
Blues VFLW 1
Casey VFLW 1

2018
Falcons 3
Bushrangers 1
Rebels 3
Cats VFLW 3

I really can't see them changing their draft strategy and the 3 standouts in the U/18's this year on form are Prespakis, Rowbottom and Craven
If Geelong took a punt on Prespakis, Saints will go Rowbottom and Tigers will take Craven (for what we need she's far better than Reid)
With the Falcons in the U/18 GF, its shown they have a very strong region and there's at least 3 or 4 very good players
Why go crazy and take a punt on Prespakis/Rowbottom hanging around long term, when you have Tess Craven, Annie Lee, Poppy Schaap, Renee Tierney and Elizabeth Dowling, all Geelong Falcons and willing to stay long term
Gun players Craven, Lee and Schaap wont be on the board after the first 20 picks
Of course i could be totally wrong, but that's my take on it

 

[Munga]

Saints in Vic picks have 2, 12, and 14, so that's 3 in the top 20, not too shabby you'd think
Cats in Vic picks have 1, 4, 5 and 11, plus at least Demons 1st for Purcell (if that's where she's going)

I'm not completely across the drafts and trading periods anymore (it changes too often).

But I still don't understand why the Cats, heading into their fourth season and the Saints their third, have 4 picks before the Saints 2nd pick?

Surely it should be the other way around?

 

[BallaratBulldog]

Saints and Tigers are probably next in line for assistance if they struggle next season.

It would be a bit annoying for Tigers riading both Brisbane and Dogs yet only for them to need larger assistance anyway.

It also worries me over the next years if clubs will even keep these players when the other clubs come in. It will be great once its stabilised though. And hopefully more fairly.

 

[Stan Judkins]

I'm not completely across the drafts and trading periods anymore (it changes too often).

But I still don't understand why the Cats, heading into their fourth season and the Saints their third, have 4 picks before the Saints 2nd pick?

Surely it should be the other way around?

yeah me too, i agree 100%
Why are the Cats getting compo picks better than the Tigers, when the Cats made the PF in 2019 and have won 6 and lost 17 in 23 games they've played over 3 seasons whilst not finishing last in any of them
Why do the Saints have the same compo picks as the Tigers having won 5 and lost 15 in 20 games they've played over 2 seasons whilst not finishing last in any of them
The Tigers have only won 3 (all this season) and lost 17 in 20 games we've played over 2 seasons, finishing last with 0 wins last season
Something the Cats and Saints haven't done as yet (finishing last)
Surely the Tigers should have what the Cats and Saints have combined in compo picks
We should have Vic Picks 3, 4, 5, 13, 14 and 15

 

[DragoDelph]

It's not that a club cannot try their first five picks, It's the first five picks in the draft overall cannot be traded. Cats can still trade their second pick onwards

 

[PMBangers]

This is just a guess at the first round, Pie 4 Life has already told me he hates it as well

I don't think any club walks away unhappy with the talent available, but a few flaws in mine compared to what the actual thing may look like include;

1. I haven't seen enough QLD talent to know who else the Suns go with, if there are girls from WA/SA that nominate nationally, and the ones we think might do, then they're going to be the picks I reckon

2. Geelong haven't gone Metro before, but I reckon Prespakis/ Rowbottom are too far ahead to ignore, even with a risk of them being poached (side note, I reckon Rowbottom has a higher ceiling than Georgie, but I do wonder if Geelong take that risk or just stay safe)

3. Metro teams don't overly favour Country talent, so whilst I have Schaap, Friend and Dojiok going Metro (considered Jaide Anthony as well in that group) I could just as easily see it as a combo of Yassir, Gillard, Appleby, Sherar, Ling, etc.

Other side notes for the entire draft;
I'm curious to see if GWS will take on Sydney academy talent now we know they're at most, 2 seasons away from entering the comp, do you take the best of them (probably only Doyle tbf) and accept that hit later on/ back yourself to keep them, or just go your own academy?

I also wonder whether we see West Coast trade for Freo's first rounder to get both Rowley and Franklin, they need a tall but from (admittedly the limited amount) I've seen of the two I'd take Rowley regardless of need

I expect Geelong to trade one of those priority picks, doesn't make sense for a list crying out for 22-26 year olds to take 3 first rounders, unless they can find a way to get that age bracket in by trading second, third rounders

I also reckon Collingwood will trade their first rounder and pick up a few of their own VFLW girls later on (I stole this from Pie 4 Life). They should be looking to get an experienced ruck in with it at the very least

 

[Stan Judkins]

It would be a bit annoying for Tigers riading both Brisbane and Dogs yet only for them to need larger assistance anyway.

It also worries me over the next years if clubs will even keep these players when the other clubs come in. It will be great once its stabilised though. And hopefully more fairly.

Your kidding with the raiding remark
We gave the doggies Pick 1 for Conti and you couldn't wait to see the back of Brennan, losing Emma Kearney to North was bigger than the 2 we "Raided"
As for Brissie & Frederick, she wanted to come to Victoria, we gave them pick 16, which as it's turned out, it should have been pick 40+, did you guys want her for pick 16?
For needing larger assistance, we finish last with 0 wins & we get pick 15 (WOW) with the proviso it must be traded for a player, otherwise it's dead
Cats finish 2nd last and get an extra 2 first rounders (yep, Vic picks 4 & 5), which tells us that if we go looking for assistance, we'll be treated as if we're the men's team that's won GF's lately and get peanuts
The comp isn't fair, the top 6 will have it over the bottom sides for long while yet, think English Premier League

 

[Stan Judkins]

It's not that a club cannot try their first five picks, It's the first five picks in the draft overall cannot be traded. Cats can still trade their second pick onwards

"Additionally, these priority selections are made on the basis that the first five (5) selections, held by each of the Clubs receiving Special Assistance, are not to be traded ahead of the 2021 NAB AFL Women’s Draft. Any selections after this point can be traded as per current AFLW Rules."
I don't think the above statement says "the first five picks in the draft overall cannot be traded"
I don't think the Cats can trade their 2nd pick onwards, neither can any of the 5 clubs that received priority picks