Deaneus!
We Await Silent Tristero's Empire
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List Mgmt. 2021 Draft picks: 4/33/75
- Thread starter Deaneus!
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- Aug 9, 2019
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Hawthorn look to be in just about an identical position to where we sit with a rebuild as well after their results the last couple of years.
- Aug 9, 2019
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This bloke oversaw the Hawks list management through good and bad, recognised as the best in the business, he was still there for the 2020 draft.
Magpies poach Graham Wright, architect of Hawks’ golden era, as footy GM in major off-field move
Magpies poach architect of Hawks’ golden era in major off-field move
www.foxsports.com.au
- Oct 16, 2015
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Ben King likes this.
The presumption from the original poster was that they were happy to lose every game as long as we're competitive. Your argument now relies upon us not being competitive. And you call my head impenetrable. Actually you didn't, but we'll assume that a clerical error.
- Jul 6, 2017
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I just thought in the first round you draft for talent and use later picks for needs
Huh? Ben King was All Australian full forward at the champs.
(that's not the same thing as a defender)
- Oct 16, 2015
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Spent most of the year in the backline...
Until Max went down, Ben was a defender. Unlike EH he can play both ends at a very high level.
It depends on who the defender is. Small defenders if they're difference makers are fine. Look at what Lachie Ash is doing in year 2. Key defenders are a bit more niche.
You burn high picks on players that are exponentially harder to find going down the order. Historically the hit rate for KPFs/inside mids was much higher earlier than later, and SFs/rucks much flatter throughout - so never went early unless they were truly extraordinary. Kozzy Pickett/Cyril style. To do a functional job as a KPD, you don't need a huge amount. Clubs have often found key defenders late, or better yet, converted failed key forwards into defenders, as it's a relatively simple position at its core.
I agree with you that it's dumbarsery to draft a key defender early generally. There are certainly exceptions though. Grainger-Barras is a great one. He's got some things that can't be trained - aerial sorcery and IQ. A few intangibles. Like Lever. Doedee. What people thought Weitering or Francis would be. McAsey never had those intangibles.
It's why DGB was rated #1 (Jamarra excluded) by as many recruiters as Thilthorpe was. His 'range' for clubs was 2-7. Like McAsey's 'range' was 6-20. There are certainly clubs who had McAsey rated outside the top 15-16.
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DGB can play at both ends of the ground too..a genuine swingman with real high end potential
- Jun 15, 2005
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McAsey was the AA CHB and widely regarded as the best KPP in his draft.
- Jun 15, 2005
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Can tell people who aren't draft watchers
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Oh, and Weitering was the other exception.
Actually, when you start to look at it, there's been quite a few KPDs taken in the top 10...
I guess all those teams made the same mistakes we did.
And we haven't mentioned Naughton yet either!
Golumless
A bigger deal out west.
Nor Haynes, Plowman, Marchbank, and Moore.
Mind you, whilst I like McAsey as a player, I consider it a mistake to draft him where we did. It's more on the wasteful side that does it for me, where you have a top 10 pick and you're not addressing any areas where you've traditionally needed high picks to get top players from. KPDs are like small forwards, you're rarely at a shortage of good prospects, even at the tail end of the draft.
We did attempt to move down again with the plan to still take McAsey. Tried to grab another 1st round pick for moving down like we did with GWS, but decided it wasn't worth risking not getting him for an extra 2nd rounder which was all we were offered.
Yep. But that doesn't make it a great idea. Although Weitering's probably a case of why it's not the best idea. Probably the most complete junior I've ever seen - and right now he's just a great KPD. No world beater. You can find them in the 30s. Or you can take your failed forwards and have a similar player. Didn't go on to become generational.
The list of 'misses' with key backs early is bigger than the list of 'hits' - not ideal for a top 10 pick. Especially when it's not a challenging position to fill through other means
Marchbank, Durdin & Goddard #6, #16 & #21 in 2014 the same. Plowman #3 and Jaksch #12 2012. Even Corr @ #14 that year is ordinary. Matthew Watson #18 in 2010. Tomlinson #9 in 2011. Leslie #20 in 2013. Francis #6 in 2015. Logue #8 2016,
Look at the list of hits. Haynes #7 (is he even 'key'?), Moore #9 (drafted primarily as a forward), Lever #14, Weitering #1 (first rounder sure, is he a 'good' pick one though?). That's about it? If you offered any club that hit rate for early picks, they'd tell you to piss off. Most of the time it's just not worth it. Just as likely to find success later. And I reckon clubs have generally twigged to that. Apart from us, I guess. Maybe Essendon - but they've always been a funky club about recruiting every tall player ever. Unless there's something seriously generational about them, there's no value in bothering.
Scorpus
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- Apr 16, 2014
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The only reason to draft a KPD in the first 10 picks is if you think they are actually a forward.
Drafting defenders with premium picks, then playing them as defenders, is a waste. Always has been, always will be.
When taking McAsey at pick 6 it HAD to be because we thought he could play forward.
Drafting defenders with premium picks, then playing them as defenders, is a waste. Always has been, always will be.
When taking McAsey at pick 6 it HAD to be because we thought he could play forward.
Scorpus
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Talia is a great player, but at the same time in that very same draft you had David Astbury going pick 35, and Dylan Grimes taken in the PSD. That's the core defensive unit of two of Richmond's flags taken outside the first round
I'm sure if there was a player who you were super confident would be the next Talia, there would be high demand and hence the pick used would always be high.
Talia is easily worth a top 10 pick in hindsight.
Talia is easily worth a top 10 pick in hindsight.
Golumless
A bigger deal out west.
I did like that move, and frankly I can see that star impact mid in Pedlar, which also helps. That said, McAsey is a very "eyes off the ball" pick, or potentially a mentally scattered pick seeing we'd just committed to a rebuild. Really unless you're an expansion side, you can't afford to be burning early picks on key backs, unless your certain they're generational talents. It's more to do with you need to be taking shots at midfielders and key forwards you can build around at this range, not system players. Something 2020 does a whole lot better.
It also really doesn't help that we double dipped for the KPD spot in the second round, and drafted the player genuinely could be will be what we hoped McAsey would be.
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- Aug 21, 2008
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Without doing a deep dive into his individual greatest performances, I'm extremely confident he has.
Talia has nullified some of the best key forwards in the game over his career how can anyone forget this.
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