List Mgmt. 2021 List Management

[The Blue Baggers]

The old saying one year too long ... well in Murphy’s case it’s 2x

 

[jd2010]

I never thought I would say this but perhaps Kane Cornes is correct and Crippa is a $750k max player.. On current form to pay him any more would be irresponsible.

it seems like the new game style brought about by the rules and the decreased stoppages has completely negated his influence on the game, and perhaps he doesn’t have the engine to move across the ground to become dangerous, 12 months ago he was in the conversation as the best player in the comp, now it’s hard to see that he would be top 50.

100%

We shouldn't be rushing to offer him big money. Obviously match what Freo/WCE eventually offer and then entertain the idea of a trade. Hopefully he still has value by the end of the season to get 1-2 good Vics back off them in return. Could be best for both parties

 

[smashbox gill]

B: Doch, Jones, Marchy

HB: Saad Weitering Willo

C: Wiliams Setterfield Fogarty

HF: Martin (Omac) Gibbons

F: Fisher Harry JSOS

R: TDK Cripps Walsh

I/C: Dow, Cunners, Stocker, Newnes



Omac until McGov/Charlie are fit



Sorry but Murphy, Curnow, Cas are past it



Plow I’m still undecided on, good some weeks terrible the next

 

[smashbox gill]

People are going way to far with the Cripps hate. He will be back, you can’t keep good players down.

I feel the AFL is also to blame for this, introducing these rules a month before the season starts.

Cripps lost weight last season to be more nimble, we all know it didn’t work. Then spends all off season packing on the muscle to return to the contested beast he was expecting the same style of play. Then a month before the season they change the rules making the game open up. Last seasons Cripps would have dominated this year

 

[Metalcrusher]

List management....

murphy
Casboult
Betts
Curnow

gone.

 

[The Bighouse]

List management....

murphy
Casboult
Betts
Curnow

gone.

Seems we’re more into list mis-management.
If this year goes pear shaped, we’re royally in the mire.

 

[Metalcrusher]

Seems we’re more into list mis-management.
If this year goes pear shaped, we’re royally in the mire.

not really but expect some deep culls at the end of the season. I would also expect to see some highly taken draft pick players to be in that cull as well.

will be an interesting year, lots to play out and a lot will be revealed about where this team is headed, both from a coaching and list perspective...

 

[Jimmae]

The question for me after 4 goal losses to the Tigers and Pies is ... who is Best 22 that we are missing?
Who’s pushing Murphy out (after we carry him to 300)? Who’s pushing Ed out? ...

Charlie (long way off, not sure what he comes back like)
Marchbank (often injured)
McGovern (often injured)
Betts (well past his best)
JSOS (attitude and class lifts him over a few)
TDK (Will become IMO, probably lacks endurance to dominate for long enough)
Cuningham (has tools we need, playing twos for a reason)
Newman (often injured)
L’Ob (I put him down to poor development, our lack of overlap run gives him a real opportunity)
Kennedy (depth)
MacDonald (injuries to McKay, TDK and Casboult makes him the perfect sub)


Untried
Kemp
Durdin
Carroll
Parks
Ramsay


Largely untried
Stocker
Philp
Owies
Cottrell
Honey

The mature (or mature enough) talent that's missing right now: JSOS, Charlie, Marchbank, Kemp, McGovern, TDK

Replacing Betts: Durdin, Cuningham
Replacing Murphy: Fogarty, Williams
Replacing Ed: Philp
Replacing Jones: ???
Replacing Levi: ???
Replacing Newnes: Carroll

Some development dark horses: Owies, Ramsay

Along with that, we've got two first round draftees outside the current 22 who could still kick on and give us some options: Stocker and O'Brien

So the clear emphasis now is finding another athletic tall at either end, maybe one that can offer a ruck option.

 

[Gavstar]

Concerned that the style of game currently being played is not the one we have designed our list around.

Speed, gut running and accurate long distance kicks are now essential in attack.

One on one defending ability is now key in defence and the intercept marking player is less important.

Some of our newest recruits are a big tick Saad, Williams and Martin but others seem disadvantaged by this new game style.

McGuane on RSN had some thought provoking views on Cripps waning ability to influence games due to his lack of running power.

2/2 games we are out of gas in the final five minutes of the quarters in comparison to the opposition.

Perhaps I'm being too pessimistic

 

[Jimmae]

Concerned that the style of game currently being played is not the one we have designed our list around.

Speed, gut running and accurate long distance kicks are now essential in attack.

One on one defending ability is now key in defence and the intercept marking player is less important.

Some of our newest recruits are a big tick Saad, Williams and Martin but others seem disadvantaged by this new game style.

McGuane on RSN had some thought provoking views on Cripps waning ability to influence games due to his lack of running power.

2/2 games we are out of gas in the final five minutes of the quarters in comparison to the opposition.

Perhaps I'm being too pessimistic

The 22 has these things, but it's not structured well. The number of mistakes being made because of this is making us put in too much effort to be competitive, which drains you as the game goes on.

 

[BIuebagger]

Unpopular opinion: if he cannot be moved to where he should be on the field, trade SPS. Go and use the value we get to bring someone in who fits better. I want him to make it here, but my doubts on him are growing by the game.

Same goes with LOB and a couple of others. These boys who aren’t consistent fixtures of the 22 and are high draft picks, maybe time to see what we can get and reshuffle the deck slightly. I don’t feel like I’m being reactionary to last night either, I’ve felt this way since the end of last season.

As for the old heads being spoken about; Murph, Ed and Cas should be in their last year. It’s time.

 

[Ash24]

Unpopular opinion: if he cannot be moved to where he should be on the field, trade SPS. Go and use the value we get to bring someone in who fits better. I want him to make it here, but my doubts on him are growing by the game.

Same goes with LOB and a couple of others. These boys who aren’t consistent fixtures of the 22 and are high draft picks, maybe time to see what we can get and reshuffle the deck slightly. I don’t feel like I’m being reactionary to last night either, I’ve felt this way since the end of last season.

As for the old heads being spoken about; Murph, Ed and Cas should be in their last year. It’s time.

We can easily use SPS in the midfield to replace Dow's spot if we wanted to. That just means that Newman or Marchy must be fit enough first.

 

[Blue_Steel89]

The mature (or mature enough) talent that's missing right now: JSOS, Charlie, Marchbank, Kemp, McGovern, TDK

Replacing Betts: Durdin, Cuningham
Replacing Murphy: Fogarty, Williams
Replacing Ed: Philp
Replacing Jones: ???
Replacing Levi: ???
Replacing Newnes: Carroll

Some development dark horses: Owies, Ramsay

Along with that, we've got two first round draftees outside the current 22 who could still kick on and give us some options: Stocker and O'Brien

So the clear emphasis now is finding another athletic tall at either end, maybe one that can offer a ruck option.

I have a feeling Parks could be Jones's replacement in future.

 

[HavUEvaSeenTheRain]

I think calling for massive changes is still a little premature. The reason I say this is because players like Williamson, Dow, Setterfield and SPS have been poor AFL level players this year. If they had been playing to a good AFL level then we would have atleast won one of the two games. Throwing more kids in when these ones (the best of them) can’t even perform seems counterintuitive.

If we see more of the same of what we have been dishing up then I think the focus has to go onto development and to find out what we have got before the end of the year.
Dow who knows, maybe he is just a c grader. Same with Setterfield, maybe a B grader. If it plays out like this then all of a sudden we need to start looking for mids again. If one or both start improving our side improves dramatically.
Williamson looks miles off atm and has been worked out. Needs a lot of work, hopefully Marchbank gets back and takes his spot soon.
SPS I love but is just a battler. Looks class but does sfa. I would like to see him play Murphy’s role if we don’t see improvement. Too slow and can’t run well enough for the midfield but can probably dish up what Murphy currently is playing forward. Also allows Newman to take his spot in the backline.
Pitto is as good as you can expect from a backup ruck imo, just need TDK fit.
Cripps and Walsh are a great one, two but if Curnow isn’t tagging we have no other decent full time mid. I actually like our impact options in Williams, Martin and Fisher but we need someone to really grab the bull by the horns.
We need a wingman.

I think with the return of McGovern and Marchbank we have atleast hope of improving our backline. If one of those takes Plowman’s role and Plowman takes SPS role we should atleast have some more height back there to support our talls.

 

[TENACIOUS]

Agree with most of the rest of your post. But don’t agree with the below.

I think calling for massive changes is still a little premature. The reason I say this is because players like Williamson, Dow, Setterfield and SPS have been poor AFL level players this year. If they had been playing to a good AFL level then we would have atleast won one of the two games. Throwing more kids in when these ones (the best of them) can’t even perform seems counterintuitive.

You’re wanting to do the same thing each week but expect a different result?

What type culture do you want to build?
(Suppose it is Carltons current culture)

What you’re post eludes to and from the outside looks like the way Teague and the match committee opperate.

Example: Hey Stocker “we know you’re in form and banging the door down on the track and in the VFL. But Setterfield could be a better player than you so we’re going with him even though he can’t get a touch”

Personally I back everyone in every position at the club.

But there are areas that need to be overhauled.

Match Committee
Teague clearly has favourites, Betts, Murphy, McGovern & Plowman... This needs to stop.

Reward form and effort, discourage underperformance... Reward the kids pushing for games in VFL, drop the guys underperforming in the AFL

Build a culture around effort, reward, performing and winning.

Player Development
This is the area the club should start pouring the most resources into, we lack in this area behind a lot of clubs.

Just my 2 cents

 

[inyourcool]

Player Development
This is the area the club should start pouring the most resources into, we lack in this area behind a lot of clubs.

Just my 2 cents

This has been our problem for 2 decades and how this has not been addressed properly AGAIN is ****ing deplorable!

After so many rebuilds

Good players come in, hang around for a few years and rot into mediocrity
Please don’t let Walsh succumb to this fate

 

[The Bighouse]

I think calling for massive changes is still a little premature. The reason I say this is because players like Williamson, Dow, Setterfield and SPS have been poor AFL level players this year. If they had been playing to a good AFL level then we would have atleast won one of the two games. Throwing more kids in when these ones (the best of them) can’t even perform seems counterintuitive.

If we see more of the same of what we have been dishing up then I think the focus has to go onto development and to find out what we have got before the end of the year.

2 defenders & 2 midfielders listed there. What is it...playing out of position, game style, fitness or development?
#3, 5, 6 draft picks included.

Luke Power brought on for the development team, unless that’s catering for the new draftees only

Senior coaches then need to have a look at themselves

Or we are/were just bad at draft selections (Setterfield trade but highly rated hence our bid).

Think it’s more out of position along with the required application. SPS is not a defender. Williamson a wing (or a late draft pick bust, not uncommon but definitely slipped lately, which is concerning). Setterfield inside. Dow just not performing as required for an elite top 3 draft pick. All should be impacting more by now with their talent.

 

[BAZZMAN]

2 defenders & 2 midfielders listed there. What is it...playing out of position, game style, fitness or development?
#3, 5, 6 draft picks included.

Luke Power brought on for the development team, unless that’s catering for the new draftees only

Senior coaches then need to have a look at themselves

Or we are/were just bad at draft selections (Setterfield trade but highly rated hence our bid).

Think it’s more out of position along with the required application. SPS is not a defender. Williamson a wing (or a late draft pick bust, not uncommon but definitely slipped lately, which is concerning). Setterfield inside. Dow just not performing as required for an elite top 3 draft pick. All should be impacting more by now with their talent.

Teague needs better coaches around him

 

[BAZZMAN]

Should carlton be looking to trade in a key forward
just in case charlie currnow fails to get back

 

[agro]

Agree with most of the rest of your post. But don’t agree with the below.



You’re wanting to do the same thing each week but expect a different result?

What type culture do you want to build?
(Suppose it is Carltons current culture)

What you’re post eludes to and from the outside looks like the way Teague and the match committee opperate.

Example: Hey Stocker “we know you’re in form and banging the door down on the track and in the VFL. But Setterfield could be a better player than you so we’re going with him even though he can’t get a touch”

Personally I back everyone in every position at the club.

But there are areas that need to be overhauled.

Match Committee
Teague clearly has favourites, Betts, Murphy, McGovern & Plowman... This needs to stop.

Reward form and effort, discourage underperformance... Reward the kids pushing for games in VFL, drop the guys underperforming in the AFL

Build a culture around effort, reward, performing and winning.

Player Development
This is the area the club should start pouring the most resources into, we lack in this area behind a lot of clubs.

Just my 2 cents

Plowman’s been every coaches favourite from the start not just Teague’s.

 

[DangerousD]

People are going way to far with the Cripps hate. He will be back, you can’t keep good players down.

I feel the AFL is also to blame for this, introducing these rules a month before the season starts.

Cripps lost weight last season to be more nimble, we all know it didn’t work. Then spends all off season packing on the muscle to return to the contested beast he was expecting the same style of play. Then a month before the season they change the rules making the game open up. Last seasons Cripps would have dominated this year

I think you’re being a bit silly here, I just did a quick google search, there is an article on the AFL website from November last year stating the man on the Mark rule will change to open up lateral movement. The clubs weren’t unaware and knew what was happening.

Possibly the club didn’t expect the drop in stoppages that’s happened, the next 4 weeks will be big for Cripps, he’s a great player and should adapt.

 

[Michael Jezz]

Concerned that the style of game currently being played is not the one we have designed our list around.

Speed, gut running and accurate long distance kicks are now essential in attack.

One on one defending ability is now key in defence and the intercept marking player is less important.

Some of our newest recruits are a big tick Saad, Williams and Martin but others seem disadvantaged by this new game style.

McGuane on RSN had some thought provoking views on Cripps waning ability to influence games due to his lack of running power.

2/2 games we are out of gas in the final five minutes of the quarters in comparison to the opposition.

Perhaps I'm being too pessimistic

Teague's coaching kills careers. SPS on the half back flank, setterfield & curnow on a wing. If Teague rotated Cripps onball with Setterfield or Kennedy, Cripps wouldnt run out of gas

 

[HavUEvaSeenTheRain]

Agree with most of the rest of your post. But don’t agree with the below.



You’re wanting to do the same thing each week but expect a different result?

What type culture do you want to build?
(Suppose it is Carltons current culture)

What you’re post eludes to and from the outside looks like the way Teague and the match committee opperate.

Example: Hey Stocker “we know you’re in form and banging the door down on the track and in the VFL. But Setterfield could be a better player than you so we’re going with him even though he can’t get a touch”

Personally I back everyone in every position at the club.

But there are areas that need to be overhauled.

Match Committee
Teague clearly has favourites, Betts, Murphy, McGovern & Plowman... This needs to stop.

Reward form and effort, discourage underperformance... Reward the kids pushing for games in VFL, drop the guys underperforming in the AFL

Build a culture around effort, reward, performing and winning.

Player Development
This is the area the club should start pouring the most resources into, we lack in this area behind a lot of clubs.

Just my 2 cents

This is my worry though, who is banging the door down? Can Stoker actually play through the midfield without being a liability because of his running? A spot is there for Dow but again he can not keep up with the game I fear the same for Stoker. Or do we play Stocker in the backline again which probably pushes another kid Williamson out.

Maybe this is the big problem, no one deserves a game. Cottrell was named second best in the VFL game so maybe him in, (he can also run) then you have Kennedy, Stoker and Betts. The rest were VFL players. We are getting smashed because we can’t run two ways long enough so Stoker and Kennedy only add to our possibly biggest floor. Betts well I guess he could but our small forwards have been good so maybe he comes in for Murphy and push Fisher or Gibbons into his role.
ATM for me the clear outs on form/output would be Williamson, Setterfield and Dow. For the roles they play they have been absolutely miles off where they should be. Murphy wasn’t great the other night but still had the most score involvements so still doing something right and as a HF probably doing his job. For me I’d give those kids another game to see where they are at and then make a call.

 

[The Bighouse]

Gulden & Campbell leading possession winners for SS. Elite kicks. 1st year players (Academy learnings).

 

[Mr_Plow]

Gulden & Campbell leading possession winners for SS. Elite kicks. 1st year players (Academy learnings).

Swans are a very professional organisation. They don't bottom out for long.