List Mgmt. 2021 List Management

[smashbox gill]

Kane Cornes

Kane Cornes

Age

42

Ht

183cm

Wt

78kg

Pos.

Mid

Career

Season

Last 5

D

23.5

5star

K

12.5

5star

HB

11.0

5star

M

5.2

5star

T

3.3

5star

CL

2.6

4star

No current season stats available

D

13.0

4star

K

7.6

3star

HB

5.4

4star

M

3.0

3star

T

1.2

3star

actually spot on in his article today, for once.
Asked why Murphy, Curnow, Cas are still playing.

Alerted that Murph is taking SPS spot in the team as that attacking HF which I could not agree more with. I’ve been saying for a while SPS should have replaced Murph midfield/attack role this year and it’s more evident now.

Curnow while still serviceable we really need to move on from. Give Setters his mid time, bring Stocker in. Play LOB & Cunners.

Some big decisions need to be made by Teague this week, I don’t have much confidence he will make them but I hope he does.

 

[Cliffords Blues]

Kane Cornes actually spot on in his article today, for once.
Asked why Murphy, Curnow, Cas are still playing.

Alerted that Murph is taking SPS spot in the team as that attacking HF which I could not agree more with. I’ve been saying for a while SPS should have replaced Murph midfield/attack role this year and it’s more evident now.

Curnow while still serviceable we really need to move on from. Give Setters his mid time, bring Stocker in. Play LOB & Cunners.

Some big decisions need to be made by Teague this week, I don’t have much confidence he will make them but I hope he does.

You know things are not travelling well when Kane Cornes is right

 

[Cliffords Blues]

If Teague cannot make the tough calls now regarding who plays, how are we expecting him to do so when contending for the flag?

 

[chunkylover53]

Or maybe we were coming from so far back that it’s taken us a couple of years to get close to the average?

Surely not. Remember when Bolton arrived and he made anyone above 12% body fat go into a separate group? Apparently his regime dramatically lifted the standards.

Russell is a good appointment, but I don't reckon he's street ahead of others in the same role. Tough industry to stay at the top at.

 

[CJMB]

Surely not. Remember when Bolton arrived and he made anyone above 12% body fat go into a separate group? Apparently his regime dramatically lifted the standards.

Russell is a good appointment, but I don't reckon he's street ahead of others in the same role. Tough industry to stay at the top at.

I seem to remember some comments (bluemours?) that he was fairly shocked about the standards/operations/etc when he arrived

The guy must love a challenge.

 

[Blueyourmyboy!!]

The very reason why McGovern should never have been an option for us. We wasted two very good 2nd round picks on him, when we had cover in that position and our priorities at the time where elsewhere.

And a decent small fwd. SOS ****ed up.

 

[The Grover]

Do we have a list spot for mid season draft? Are those picks based on ladder position at time of draft?

 

[HavUEvaSeenTheRain]

If Teague cannot make the tough calls now regarding who plays, how are we expecting him to do so when contending for the flag?

What’s a tough call though? It’s different for everyone. Maybe the tough call is to stick to your guns, maybe it’s make kids bang the door down to give them a game. ATM he is bringing heat on himself by playing his best side, put kids out there and he has excuses. That could be the easy call.

In saying that I’m actually shocked people expect to change the clubs entire plan/philosophy for this season on the back of one poor game. If Teague is willing to give up on what he has believed in for 18 months on the back of one poor performance and abit of media pressure then that’s arguably a bigger indictment on him

 

[17SetMeFree]

I seem to remember some comments (bluemours?) that he was fairly shocked about the standards/operations/etc when he arrived

The guy must love a challenge.

coming from the hawks who won a premiership the following year - not hard to see why

 

[Juddernaut08]

I never thought I would say this but perhaps Kane Cornes is correct and Crippa is a $750k max player.. On current form to pay him any more would be irresponsible.

it seems like the new game style brought about by the rules and the decreased stoppages has completely negated his influence on the game, and perhaps he doesn’t have the engine to move across the ground to become dangerous, 12 months ago he was in the conversation as the best player in the comp, now it’s hard to see that he would be top 50.

Nope.

Cripps is clearly off it at the moment. Remember in 2019 his hands and contested marking were a thing of beauty.

Now he's dropping sitters and getting pushed off it. Perhaps this is partly umpiring.

When he figures out these niggles he's still a top 10 player.

 

[17SetMeFree]

Nope.

Cripps is clearly off it at the moment. Remember in 2019 his hands and contested marking were a thing of beauty.

Now he's dropping sitters and getting pushed off it. Perhaps this is partly umpiring.

When he figures out these niggles he's still a top 10 player.

He is frustrated and plays that way. The tackles are careless and often result in free kicks, sometimes against our run of play.
he runs through players angry trying to do too much. more of less since the latter part of 2019 onwards

When diesel came to the club, he addressed this with cripps.

He probably needs to play forward more, so he's not exposed /exploited for lack of speed
and less of a load on his body

 

[katmanblue]

Nope.

Cripps is clearly off it at the moment. Remember in 2019 his hands and contested marking were a thing of beauty.

Now he's dropping sitters and getting pushed off it. Perhaps this is partly umpiring.

When he figures out these niggles he's still a top 10 player.

2019 was a long time ago.

It's like waiting for Docherty to get back to AA form. May as well be waiting for Godot.

 

[JustaBattler]

2019 was a long time ago.

It's like waiting for Docherty to get back to AA form. May as well be waiting for Godot.

Cripps was and is a great exrtactor and a handy forward mark - the lack of midfield support prior to this year and his deternination to be a winner made him want to be A Fyfe or a Bont - sans the running power either or the kicking ability of Bont - never miond he is srtong enough to grind them both intto irrelevancy one on one. All he has to do now is get back to being a tractor extractor/enforcer and marking target when he is resting forward- the Club has enough mids to more than share the load. If he wants to be the greatest Captain since Sticks - all he has to do is cop a fair salary and play his game and feed the other blokes around him.

Thats my view. He doesn't have to be the best all round mid- all he has to do is be himself - more mongrel - leave the fancy footwork to others.

Also he could do with insisting on a no tackle no play in my team attitude - give a player who needs a bake on field and off.

 

[Juddernaut08]

Cripps was and is a great exrtactor and a handy forward mark - the lack of midfield support prior to this year and his deternination to be a winner made him want to be A Fyfe or a Bont - sans the running power either or the kicking ability of Bont - never miond he is srtong enough to grind them both intto irrelevancy one on one. All he has to do now is get back to being a tractor extractor/enforcer and marking target when he is resting forward- the Club has enough mids to more than share the load. If he wants to be the greatest Captain since Sticks - all he has to do is cop a fair salary and play his game and feed the other blokes around him.

Thats my view. He doesn't have to be the best all round mid- all he has to do is be himself - more mongrel - leave the fancy footwork to others.

Also he could do with insisting on a no tackle no play in my team attitude - give a player who needs a bake on field and off.

100% we have a decent midfield core with Walsh and Williams that he doesn't have to do it all now.

I think we should think about how post-serum captain america was used in the essendon midfield circa 2012. Jobe was the engineroom extracting to their fleet of quick mids.

A midfield core of
Cripps - clearance king
Walsh - hardness and all round mid
Williams - speed around the contest
Setterfield - defensive mid and tackler

thats what i want to see in most setups! flipping barker

 

[JustaBattler]

100% we have a decent midfield core with Walsh and Williams that he doesn't have to do it all now.

I think we should think about how post-serum captain america was used in the essendon midfield circa 2012. Jobe was the engineroom extracting to their fleet of quick mids.

A midfield core of
Cripps - clearance king
Walsh - hardness and all round mid
Williams - speed around the contest
Setterfield - defensive mid and tackler

thats what i want to see in most setups! f*n barker

I dont think Setterfield has earned anything except brownie points from Teague and the MC for some reason that has nothing to do with on field performance tbh. He is so over trated in this forum it isnt funny- can't tackle in open ( where it counts) cant run with his direct opponent and is a lousy field kick. Right now he is a poor man's Ed Curnow- sans the ability to shut anything down.

Sorry just my view based on how he has played - one of the main culprits costing us the points in both games.

 

[17SetMeFree]

2019 was a long time ago.

It's like waiting for Docherty to get back to AA form. May as well be waiting for Godot.

Geez wasn't his game against the tigers bad? 3 uncharacteristic errors/fumbles that resulted in goals

he was a rock last year , perhaps the speed of the game has unsettled him or he needs time to adjust.
On another note during that same game, sheat bolton knocked him over as he was on his knee running past from behind
no one really flew the flag for him as he remonstrated, it was only rioli that calmly separated him. i didn't like that at all

 

[thylacine60]

Nope.

Cripps is clearly off it at the moment. Remember in 2019 his hands and contested marking were a thing of beauty.

Now he's dropping sitters and getting pushed off it. Perhaps this is partly umpiring.

When he figures out these niggles he's still a top 10 player.

Cripps form is partly umpiring. I just read that.

 

[thebluenewdeal]

Watching the preseason and the last 2 games has opened my mind up on where our list is at.
It seems that Silvagni opted to go for quantity of quality over precise selections in the draft. In other words, he basically tried to gather as many first round draft picks to rebuild a team in a tradition sense. I think it was the right move only in the beginning of the rebuild because that netted us Weitering, McKay, and Charlie (who I think is far from done due to the new rules). That’s the spine.
However, why in the holy f**k was the recruiting team still going that route and wasting top picks on midfielders that do not complement the most important factor of the team.

PATRICK CRIPPS

9

Patrick Cripps

Age

30

Ht

195cm

Wt

93kg

Pos.

Mid

Career

Season

Last 5

D

25.9

5star

K

9.8

4star

HB

16.1

5star

M

3.4

3star

T

5.8

5star

CL

7.4

5star

D

21.0

5star

K

10.1

4star

HB

10.9

5star

M

2.5

3star

T

3.8

4star

CL

6.3

5star

D

12.6

4star

K

4.8

2star

HB

7.8

5star

M

2.0

3star

T

3.2

5star

CL

1.4

4star

We kept drafting accumulators and contested ball winners when we have the best player in the comp who does exactly that. Dow, SPS, Fisher, Cuningham, traded up to get Stocker, they brought in Setterfield, Kennedy, and I’m sure there’s plenty more wobbly list decisions. At this point it is so obvious that this part of the list build has been a failure because the only selection we got right in terms of specific selections that will keep balance in the squad was only one, just f**king ONE! The safest pick 1 you could select. My drunk uncle would be able to make that decision.
And it only gets worse. McKay and Cripps are out of contract and at this point I’d prefer, if one of the two leave, it’s Cripps because he deserves better than this. Everyone is playing out of position, too many ball hunters and Nick Austin does not know what he’s gotten himself into.
If everyone stays then we’ve got to pick up gut running midfielders and trade out one or two of the above midfielders named. I’d prefer to keep Setters, SPS and Fish because they’re versatile but the rest can f**k off to be honest. The club has got to realise these faults or we will be a mid table team for a long while.

I’ve ranted but I think these points are pretty valid. Thoughts?

 

[bmaurizio]

Anyone have updates on Honey, Philip , Ramsay and Owies ? haven’t heard much about their progress.

 

[CJMB]

Anyone have updates on Honey, Philip , Ramsay and Owies ? haven’t heard much about their progress.

Nothing on Honey, Phillip got delisted (Philp to return from hip/groin injury in the VFL this week), Ramsay has played reserves scratch matches, Owies seems to kick his 2 or 3 goals in the magoos each week they play.

 

[skadoosh]

Do we have a list spot for mid season draft? Are those picks based on ladder position at time of draft?

No, our list is full after signing OMac.

 

[carlton_99]

This surprised me...

 

[Elmer_Hauser]

Unpopular opinion, but I think we should pay Marchbank out/retire or trade him (unlikely) if he cannot still play more than 10-15 games this season.

Has to be a point where we have to cut our losses and move on.

 

[Accidental genius]

Unpopular opinion, but I think we should pay Marchbank out/retire or trade him (unlikely) if he cannot still play more than 10-15 games this season.

Has to be a point where we have to cut our losses and move on.

if he was lti list ok but he is occupying a list spot and continues to be injured. got to be a negative impact on the club.

 

[gbatman]

The coach needs to go young with his team selection. It wasn't the time to do it when Bolton was coach because they were too young and we didn't have a core of players to support them but now that has changed.

Problem with our team is we have hung onto mediocre senior players and yes they have been necessary and they have done an admirable job but the time comes when younger and better players turn up and they need to be replaced.

Here's where we will probably get it wrong.

Ed Curnow - He's a leader of the team and he's admirable in how he goes about things but he's a B grade footballer. Not a high possession winner nor a damaging player. He's a good tagger but there are a lot who can play that role and it's a role we could be developing midfielders in. Ed has been best 22 for a long time now but if this remains the case we are hanging on too long. I'd rather Stocker, Dow or Setterfield playing that role in the team.

Murphy - he's no longer good enough to play midfield but he's still reasonable. Problem is half forward flank is a great position to develop young talented youth. I can think of a few who could be developing there. Durdin, Carroll, SPS, O'Brien, Owies, Philp, Cuningham and Ramsay.

Plowman - He's another who is a B Grade player who has been protected by a defensive game plan for a long while and no competition for his spot. Gets bags kicked on him when the opposition target him and if we play more attacking footy. Slow and lacks mobility and offers noting offensively. Marchbank has been out for ever and ever so hasn't been able to displace him but young Parks has shown a bit and has a higher celling.

Setterfield, Newnes and Curnow on a wing - Slow and ordinary kicking, just what you don't want on your wing. Wing has been hard for us to fill but we need to have a look at other names here. Setterfield should play on the ball or in the seconds. Curnow outside is a no and Newnes has gone ok but we should be looking for someone with more talent and speed. O'Brien unfortunately hasn't stood up here. I am hoping we try some such as Carroll or Cuningham.

Casboult - I'm struggling to see what he offers. He can't run or kick. It baffles me why the coach sees him as an automatic selection.


The weak parts of our ground are definitely our wings, the ruck, third tall defender and a fair chunk of our forward line as well as midfield rotations. With everyone fit I think our forward line is quite good. Do we have the young small forwards? Well we need to play young small forwards to find out. I rate Fisher, Gibbons and Fogarty and Carroll and Durdin have ability then there is Owies kicking plenty of goals in the seconds so there is something.

We have lacked those tall fast forwards. Curnow and McGovern are that but haven't played yet.

TDK is going to be a good ruckman but he's always injured. Again he's missing a fair chunk of the season. Pittonet is a battler.

Third tall defender is something we lack badly. Plowman is not up to it and I doubt he's up to taking smalls each week. Marchbank is always injured and his kicking was questionable. Parks looks like a good bet.

As for the midfield we need to stick with Dow, he's done some good things this season and Teague needs to have Stocker in the team in some capacity. The problem isn't Stocker not playing well enough, it's the coach hanging on to old mediocre players. Carroll needs to come in and start playing senior footy as well. Looks a little too good for the seconds.

Injuries are killing us now. Curnow, Kemp, TDK, Silvagni, McGovern, Fisher, Martin, Marchbank and Newman are all best 22 or very very close to it.

For what it's worth it's killing us not having reserves footy at the moment as well. It doesn't effect the winning sides but sides like us are copping it bad. We desperately needed a game this weekend and the season hasn't started yet. This system is badly broken.

Carlton needs to change it's thinking to develop some footballers this season and need to be looking at having a 2022 best 22 something like this:

B: Parks Weitering Williamson
HB: Saad Kemp Docherty
C: Carroll Cripps Walsh
HF: Fogarty McKay Martin
F: McGovern Curnow Gibbons
OB: DeKoning Williams (New Recruit)
IC: Stocker Dow ??? Fisher

It's been straight forward on who to replace until now. Our list has improved to the point were we are no longer looking to replace C grade footballers but we are not looking to replace B grade footballers which makes it a little tougher identifying who needs to go because they will be and have in the past played decent football.

List and recruitment wise we need to look at another top liner for the centre. A wingman or someone to put Walsh back on the wing. A young ruckman to backup TDK and a young tall athletic defender as backup. I would definitely be retaining Jones however. I would be looking at young midfielders with a few years who are doing well in state comps.

As for who goes, I can see a clean out at seasons end of injury prone and a few old stagers but for that to happen we need to be confident we have ready to go players coming in and young ones stepping up. It's a very big deal for us list management wise to have young players step up and become part of the best 22.