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List Mgmt. 2021 Trade Thread - Part I

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Delisted;
-

Traded;
-

Retired;
Jake Carlisle
Shaun McKernan

Current Players Out of Contract;
3. Zak Jones - Link
6. Sebastian Ross (RFA) - Link
7. Luke Dunstan (RFA) - Link
13. Jack Lonie - Link
15. Jack Billings (RFA) - Link
18. Patrick Ryder - Link
24. James Frawley - Link
25. Dean Kent - Link
38. Oscar Clavarino - Link
39. Darragh Joyce - Link
41. Paul Hunter - Link
42. Max Heath - Link
45. Sam Alabakis - Link


To see the full list (it gets updated regularly) visit this thread;

List & Contract Status

SENIOR LIST 1. Jack Higgins 2. Marcus Windhager 3. Zak Jones 4. Lance Collard 5. Brad Crouch 6. Sebastian Ross 7. Nasiah Wanganeen-Milera 8. Bradley Hill 9. Jack Steele 10. Mitchito Owens 11. Hunter Clark 12. Max King 13. Ryan Byrnes 14. Liam Stocker 15. Paddy Dow 16. Daniel Butler 17. Isaac...
www.bigfooty.com www.bigfooty.com
 
We've been unlucky with some of our better players too.
Selwood, who helped Geelong beat us, was a couple of picks before Dave ( a much better mid at his best than Dunstan ) Armitage.
He'd played a couple of seasons when Jack Steven and Koby Stevens made their debuts.

Add their early retirements to our lack of even average recruiting between 2004 an 2011 and its been an uphill battle.
 
WRFL Indentity said:
Problem is we have neither a haul of young kids.or older guys playing career best footy.

All 3 are replaceable. Varying degrees of ease, but they are replaceable, and, probably with what we already have on the list. They are also the last of the 'Cho Era', so I'm not too sure if it would have a meaningful impact on the culture of the group either?

Making the call now will see maximum ROI. Each year we wait, we waste money and lose value.

It is a short term hit, for a long term gain.
Click to expand...


With the list changes over the last 3 year they will have to learn to play together. I'd be holding on a straight path and see what we get next year. Mass changes are unlikely to have a massive upswing in performance. Having what we have playing to capacity will be more likely to have a positive outcome.

Who is going to step up to cover all three and then make a bigger impact on top? Gresham most lily to replace one then maybe Clark? People suggested that Connolly would replace Billings. That's fantasy stuff.
 
stavro#4 said:
It is probably a simplistic view. But on reflection of the year. It came down to moments.


If Higgins kicks straight against Sydney.

If we don’t sh*t the bed against the crows.

if we don’t sh*t the bed late against Port.

if King never gets injured again last week.

If king kicked straight against the cats the first time

5 games that came down to moments. We lost all 5.

flipside, we won the key moments in the GWS and GCS games.

had we gone 4/7 - in the above, we sit 7th outright. Probably play finals this year, in which we got decimated by players being unavailable.
Click to expand...
If Rowan Marshall never got that pint. We probably beat west coast
 
SaintsSeptember said:
We've been unlucky with some of our better players too.
Selwood, who helped Geelong beat us, was a couple of picks before Dave ( a much better mid at his best than Dunstan ) Armitage.
He'd played a couple of seasons when Jack Steven and Koby Stevens made their debuts.

Add their early retirements to our lack of even average recruiting between 2004 an 2011 and its been an uphill battle.
Click to expand...
Dave, Koby, Stuv, Paddy and Hugh.

Thats our core midfield, Full forward and Full back. What a train wreck.

We never had a chance.
 

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gringo2011 said:
He was like trading Marshall now, it was a very risky trade and you would have to say it was part of spending so long out of contention. He was a developing high picked player (pick 9) who had leadership qualities and standards learnt under Rooey and Goddard traded for 18 and Savage with development put in.

You can trade out players on a gamble but you can't isolate the outcome from the the players we grabbed with the compensation. They are responsible for the list build and they got it wrong, the picks that we used on Hickey and Longer may have changed our fortunes even.
Click to expand...

Come on, if we hadn't landed Hickey how would we have had currency for our saviour Dan Hannebury.
( Who did in fact give us back the pick we traded and picked up Parker and Bytel. So if Bytel washes out the whole thing is a fail ).
 
stavro#4 said:
Marshall is better then McEvoy ever was.
So no it isn’t the same.

because if I was trading Marshall - I’d want a haul starting with a top 5 pick.
Click to expand...


He was a very high level player at his best and a first picked player in their three peat era. When we sold him he was promising young ruck who was very good around the ground but an average tap ruck. Marshall is looking very high potential but so did McEvoy which is why the Hawks chased him.

I wouldn't want to trade Marshall for any pick right now.
 
ScrappyDo said:
Overwhelmingly our bipolar efforts which you refer to as Shitting the bed. That's head and shoulders the no1 reason we're not playing finals.
Fortunately it seems to have been remedied albeit too late, but we've been all about the draft pick since the bye anyway so I'm actually happy and will be going for Freo this weekend.
Click to expand...
Post the Bulldogs disgrace. We have been very very good. With our worst game being the Carlton game and I dare say if we replayed that another 9 times we would win more then not.

generally speaking, when you are flying - results go your way. Against Sydney, a fit Gresham probably means we win.

against Adelaide, we win with Ross and Membrey.

a fit King for 4 quarters last week andI think we win.

it really highlights how lucky you need to be to win a flag. Richmond never lost Dusty in 17/19/20.Brownlow norm smiths etc.

Lose him this year and they fell apart disgracefully.
 
gringo2011 said:
He was a very high level player at his best and a first picked player in their three peat era. When we sold him he was promising young ruck who was very good around the ground but an average tap ruck. Marshall is looking very high potential but so did McEvoy which is why the Hawks chased him.

I wouldn't want to trade Marshall for any pick right now.
Click to expand...
You and I have a very different idea of high level if you classify McEvoy as high level.

He was the Jason Blake of ruckmen - with much better leadership. You just pick him and forget and worry about the other 17 match ups.
 
gringo2011 said:
With the list changes over the last 3 year they will have to learn to play together. I'd be holding on a straight path and see what we get next year. Mass changes are unlikely to have a massive upswing in performance. Having what we have playing to capacity will be more likely to have a positive outcome.

Who is going to step up to cover all three and then make a bigger impact on top? Gresham most lily to replace one then maybe Clark? People suggested that Connolly would replace Billings. That's fantasy stuff.
Click to expand...

To be fair, I don't think we need to let all 3 go, but I'm not opposed to the idea.

Gresham and Clark are the obvious ones to come in and have immediate impact. If, and I understand it's a big IF, they stay fit, I believe their output will exceed that of Ross and Dunstan by some margin.

My Billings replacement is Battle - not like-for-like, but still something where the pay-off could be huge.

The other two factors we need to be mindful of are

1) Natural improvement of players like King, Coffield, Connolly, Byrnes, Sharman etc...
2) Fitness of Gresham, Jones, Hannebery (a reach), Paton etc...

I can see why you believe these 3 (Ross, Dunstan and Billings) need to be kept, I just think we have the pieces to cover and improve.
 
kernelT said:
Some pretty handy players in there that earn 1mil+ per year and most of them would be on 700+

I think the point stands that it’s all good and well for foaming fans to say “he should take 400 or get f’ed” but his market value will be well over that and we probably can’t find a better player to replace him without spending a sh*t tonne in both picks and cap space.

His first month this year when he was fit was absolutely elite, 6 goals and 24 D... find me another player like that and I’d be happy to see Billings go.
Click to expand...

Yeah it's a fair point that they're not cheap, but still he's towards the lower end of that group. His two best years are 25.7/0.6, 23.1/1.1, they comfortably get him good money. My problem is that his last two years now haven't been in that range, not just this year but last year as well, and it's not clear to me right now that he'll ever get back to his best. That's probably me underestimating him but surely he has to expect to be judged on exposed form - just as he was in his last contract when he got money too high for his eventual output.
 

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Might be time to look at trading out Gresh. Hardly been on the field last two years and looks to be injury prone.
 
WRFL Indentity said:
To be fair, I don't think we need to let all 3 go, but I'm not opposed to the idea.

Gresham and Clark are the obvious ones to come in and have immediate impact. If, and I understand it's a big IF, they stay fit, I believe their output will exceed that of Ross and Dunstan by some margin.

My Billings replacement is Battle - not like-for-like, but still something where the pay-off could be huge.

The other two factors we need to be mindful of are

1) Natural improvement of players like King, Coffield, Connolly, Byrnes, Sharman etc...
2) Fitness of Gresham, Jones, Hannebery (a reach), Paton etc...

I can see why you believe these 3 (Ross, Dunstan and Billings) need to be kept, I just think we have the pieces to cover and improve.
Click to expand...
Replacing Billings with Battle would be a step backwards.

Battle either needs played as a key forward or we should trade him. The wing experiment needs to end for everyones sake.
 
BrutThough said:
Replacing Billings with Battle would be a step backwards.

Battle either needs played as a key forward or we should trade him. The wing experiment needs to end for everyones sake.
Click to expand...

I think i'd rather Hill, Connelly, Webster, or Coffield on the wing, and that's not to say i think any of those would do well there.
 
WRFL Indentity said:
To be fair, I don't think we need to let all 3 go, but I'm not opposed to the idea.

Gresham and Clark are the obvious ones to come in and have immediate impact. If, and I understand it's a big IF, they stay fit, I believe their output will exceed that of Ross and Dunstan by some margin.

My Billings replacement is Battle - not like-for-like, but still something where the pay-off could be huge.

The other two factors we need to be mindful of are

1) Natural improvement of players like King, Coffield, Connolly, Byrnes, Sharman etc...
2) Fitness of Gresham, Jones, Hannebery (a reach), Paton etc...

I can see why you believe these 3 (Ross, Dunstan and Billings) need to be kept, I just think we have the pieces to cover and improve.
Click to expand...
Battle couldn’t possibly deliver what billings does. I have no problem if we trade battle, we have better options both ends of the ground he’s an example of a win win trade for player and club.
 
SaintsSeptember said:
I think i'd rather Hill, Connelly, Webster, or Coffield on the wing, and that's not to say i think any of those would do well there.
Click to expand...
Agreed. Mason Wood as well in his few games showed played that taller wing/fwd role more effectively than Battle has too.

He is a forward and we are doing him a disservice not playing him as one.
 

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stavro#4 said:
Post the Bulldogs disgrace. We have been very very good. With our worst game being the Carlton game and I dare say if we replayed that another 9 times we would win more then not.

generally speaking, when you are flying - results go your way. Against Sydney, a fit Gresham probably means we win.

against Adelaide, we win with Ross and Membrey.

a fit King for 4 quarters last week andI think we win.

it really highlights how lucky you need to be to win a flag. Richmond never lost Dusty in 17/19/20.Brownlow norm smiths etc.

Lose him this year and they fell apart disgracefully.
Click to expand...


And have a bit of quality depth to cover for injury and form slumps.
 
BrutThough said:
I still categorise Billings as a wing and whoever would be replacing him would then have to play that position.

And Battle is not a wing despite Ratten's persistence with it.
Click to expand...

I can live with classifying Billings as a wing. I don't believe its his best position though.

A tall wingman should have been the perfect spot for Battle. I always thought his tank and height would make for excellent mis-matches late in quarters when he drifted forward. A shame really.
 
stavro#4 said:
You and I have a very different idea of high level if you classify McEvoy as high level.

He was the Jason Blake of ruckmen - with much better leadership. You just pick him and forget and worry about the other 17 match ups.
Click to expand...


He used to sit across CHB and repel entry after entry for us. His tap work was average at the Saints but no worse than Marshall's. He went pretty well in Hawks most recent golden era.
 
Yawkey way said:
There isn’t a spot for him in the forward line, he kicked 3 goals this year.
Click to expand...
That's surprisingly poor. Would have expected him to kick more than that, even with his poor season.

I think your right about him not fitting in up forward. King and Membrey are locks. If Ryder plays, the last tall spot goes to Marshall. If Ryder isnt playing, could Battle be the one to take that spot? The Sharman emergence is going to give him some competition for it next year. And if Bing is a realistic possibility in the next 2 years, that would push him further down the pecking order.

I still have hope he could turn into a very good key forward given the opportunity and an extended period playing in that position. He has the skills and natural forward instinct to do it.
 
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