List Mgmt. 2022 Draft Thread - Part I

[George]

Sticking this at the top of each page. If it gets annoying, let me know and I can just put it in the original post of the thread. Credit to Lore

 

[Diehard Saint]

Every draft expert I.e Twomey has said we were working on a deal to take Hewett with one of the GWS picks.

The eagles said they weren’t looking at taking 2 WA boys with their first 2 picks. With Ginbey being the lock at 9 to them.

Twomeys phantom draft has been 13/13 and had Hewett going early in the second round to the eagles third pick.

So they went early to avoid losing him.

Who says the Saints recruiters can't play the psych game?

 

[Diehard Saint]

Question: What happens if we pass on pick #66 and Angus McLennan is bid on after that? Can we match the bid with a later pick #76 having already passed?

I hope we use all available picks, Gallagher has said we will probably use 4? Lets hope they do as #44 might come in more if the Davie twins, Munkara or other NGA's are bid on earlier.

I believe GWS would have been our trade partner to get higher in the 2nd round but after Sydney's bids I dont think GWS will still want to trade?

If we could get Burgiel, Keeler & Van Es with our last 3 picks I would be happy.

If we were going to pass on the pick, why wouldn't we just use it to get him in the first place?

 

[bird_man]

If we were going to pass on the pick, why wouldn't we just use it to get him in the first place?

Not sure we can put him on the Cat B rookie list if we take him with a national draft selection?

 

[SaintJunior]

I think that's all the facts that anyone can point towards, otherwise we are all just spitballing as to whether he hates Melbourne or not or his homesick. Doubt many on here know the intricacies of Nasiahs life or how he is feeling. IMO, the not signing an extension is somewhat of a red flag when almost every other kid who has been committed to by a club with their first round pick has shown the faith. I wonder who his manager is....

Same manager as Horne-Francis

 

[Highlander35]

If we were going to pass on the pick, why wouldn't we just use it to get him in the first place?

AFAIK they're only a free hit (see, automatically Cat B listed) if they go completely undrafted after a nomination, otherwise we need to match a primary list position if we want him.

 

[CaptainRisky]

Same manager as Horne-Francis

= Gone then IMO

 

[FrogDude]

I really hope that the Bulldogs do us a favour and bid on Davey with their pick.
Gives us the opportunity to trade up with Essendon and get someone like Hotton, George or Hayes

 

[SaintsSeptember]

AFAIK they're only a free hit (see, automatically Cat B listed) if they go completely undrafted after a nomination, otherwise we need to match a primary list position if we want him.

Do we get to match?
He was in last year's draft and we didn't take him, i don't think we have any dibs on him at all now.
But if he gets through the Rookie draft , we can make him Cat B without using a spot.

 

[SaintsofSteel]

If we were going to pass on the pick, why wouldn't we just use it to get him in the first place?

We nominated McLennan as an NGA so we can match at either draft after pick #40.

Its more about managing list numbers, I think the club want to add him as a Cat B rookie? Basically we get player added to our list that is not included in the TPP a free hit really.

To do that he has to get through the draft/s. Although I would have no problems adding him to the main or rookie lists.

 

[stfan]

After I don't think last night could have gone much better, so many possibilities tonight, intriguing to see which way we go.

Yes it worked out perfectly for us.

It also meant that our list management team had nothing really to do as the Poo was an automatic choice.

So they just picked who virtually everyone would have taken. Many of the clubs before us had to decide between players. We had a choice of one, but what a great choice to have!



Tonight, and in the rookie draft, we will see how good our list team is. There will be some talent available, but will history end up showing that we made some good calls.

Last season our two NGA boys made our second and third picks easy and moreso as the other clubs quite nicely just sat back and did not force our hand. By the time Nasiah's name was called out he was the obvious pick, though we could have called out another couple of names.

 

[Mangus]

Why is there such a strong assumption that The Messiah will go back to SA after next season? He's had one year at the Saints, a fairly good year for him personally in a very ordinary year for the team. Things are really cooking now, the club is transforming before his eyes - he'll stay for the sheer excitement playing for our next flag brings, as well as the "legend" status that goes with it!!

On NWM I think he stays. Port don't have a first round pick next year anyway and that is the most likely destination if he does want to leave. One more year getting used to Melb with Ross and his mate the Pou and things will settle. We will have a core of youngsters after this draft and last year that should help to make him feel more connected socially and in the team. A long way to go before next years trade period. Player retention really hasn't been a problem for us to date.

As for tonights haul of the players left:

1. Brayden George: Is the only player I would consider trading up for, will be gone by our pick for sure and has the ability to be elite. As long as the Doc's think the knee is ok worth the cost of next years 2nd. None of the others demand that kind of investment. Admittedly only going on what others have reported on him as I have never seen him play.

2. Lachie Cowan, Charlie Clark, Lewis Hayes - Will all likely go before our pick but would be my first choices if still available

3. Burgiel, Hotton - Hoping one of them makes it through to our first pick

4. Keeler - On talent and fit is perfect for us the knocks on his commitment to an AFL lifestyle are harder to assess from a distance. Hopefully we have done the work and believe we can turn him into an AFL player

5. Van Es, Phillips hopefully one of them is still around for the later picks we need a Key Back.

6. Drury, Gallagher, Long, Phoenix Foster all look like they can fill a role so happy for any of them and Foster is Pous mate

7. Late or Rookie: Seth Campbell, Lovelock, Magor, O'Sullivan

Will be interesting to see if we pull a smokey from somewhere as we have done previously and someone needs to steal Munkara from the Dons just not us.

Stay away from Lemmy Scully

 

[CaptainRisky]

I really hope that the Bulldogs do us a favour and bid on Davey with their pick.
Gives us the opportunity to trade up with Essendon and get someone like Hotton, George or Hayes

We don't need anyone called #George as he is sure to be a lazy fat campaigner, might be ok for his trash talking but that's about it

 

[Saintscomemarchingin]

Everyone is mentioning Burgiel.

But I think I’m keen on going after Jakob Ryan

Me too, but Ryan likely to go earlier

 

[CaptainRisky]

I have seen bugger all of Angus McLennan but he looks like he has some talent and has missed a lot of footy , maybe a real sleeper in the draft ?

His writes ups from before he had all the injuries were quiet good , anyone got any info on him ?

 

[botts]

I have seen bugger all of Angus McLennan but he looks like he has some talent and has missed a lot of footy , maybe a real sleeper in the draft ?

His writes ups from before he had all the injuries were quiet good , anyone got any info on him ?

There is some videos from last year on him playing school footy. Looked real good. A bit of a google search you can probably find it

 

[Winmar2Lockett]

There is some videos from last year on him playing school footy. Looked real good. A bit of a google search you can probably find it

Its on the Sandy Dragons Instagram page

 

[Saintscomemarchingin]

I am hoping for 3 players out of this list

Hayes
Clarke
Burgiel
Gruzeski
Noah Long
Keeler
Van Es
Steely Green
Miagor

It would be tempting to trade up for Brayden George or Lewis Hayes.

Like that you have put Steely Green there, he looks a ripper

 

[RWB4life]

Sounds like port and us like van es, assuming we keep 35 we should get him there. Port have 36 and I'm not sure he gets through to our 44.

Personally if we can trade a f2 and 44 for a pick in the 20s and get someone like George, Clarke or someone around that level then get keeler and van es I'd be stoked.

Sent from my SM-N985F using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[austinnn]

Why the AFL draft isn’t working

The draft, while still important, is no longer shaping the destinies of teams the way it once did.

www.theage.com.au

Anyone keen to print this for us?

 

[Remboy]

Why the AFL draft isn’t working

The draft, while still important, is no longer shaping the destinies of teams the way it once did.

www.theage.com.au

Anyone keen to print this for us?

Why the AFL draft isn’t working​

On Monday night, when the AFL’s 18 clubs assemble for the opening night of the national draft, the Richmond Football Club will be only notional participants as the first 20 names are read out.
If the rules permitted, the Tigers may as well stay at home because they will be mere bystanders to whatever unfolds.

Richmond have no first- or second-round pick in 2022, and they don’t have a 2023 first-round choice to trade on the night either.
The Tigers’ first choice will be later, on Tuesday night, at pick 53 – by which stage, many clubs’ recruiters will be finished.
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That weak hand restricts the Tigers’ capacity to bring in talent, but they’ve already done their work by gaining Tim Taranto and Jacob Hopper from the Giants via well-executed trades. They’ve arguably done more to strengthen their premiership prospects than any club.

Everything you need to know about the 2022 AFL draft​

Having won three premierships between 2017 and 2020, Richmond ought to be on a major downswing, with a vanishing core of premiership stars. Yet, they’ve chosen to defy the system’s natural gravity by rejecting the draft – this year at least – and using mature players to vault back into flag contention.
Taranto, pick two six years ago, has been gained for picks 13 and 19, while Hopper cost the Tigers only next year’s first and pick 31.
Geelong, meanwhile, managed to acquire Tanner Bruhn (Greater Western Sydney) and Ollie Henry (Collingwood), for the essential cost of only picks 18 and a youngster not in their best 25 (Cooper Stephens). The Cats, in a ground-breaking deal, also landed Jack Bowes and pick seven, owing to the farcical fact that they had more salary-cap room than Gold Coast.

This time 12 months ago, North Melbourne were overjoyed to have Jason Horne-Francis at pick one. Today, he’s a Port Adelaide player, sprinting out of Arden Street despite a contract.
On Monday and Tuesday night, experts will declare particular clubs have “done really well” and improved their lists with judicious choices.

But recent events – and the continuing trend of players choosing their clubs, irrespective of age or contracts – mean that the draft may not prove a panacea, even for those clubs purported to have brained ’em.
The draft, while important, is no longer shaping the destinies of teams, in terms of winning games and finals, in the way that it did, or as intended when it was introduced, alongside the salary cap, in 1986. It is important, but less influential than a decade ago.

“The draft is almost irrelevant to the top four or so clubs,” says Gold Coast chief executive and ex-Hawthorn and AFL football boss Mark Evans. He notes that the draft has been weakened, as an equalisation measure, “given the increase in player movement and players wanting to play at clubs in premiership contention”.
Senior club figures and list managers note that players these days are more willing to leave, as Horne-Francis and Henry did; that the best players pick the good teams higher on the ladder (see Tom Lynch and Jeremy Cameron), that they nearly always get their wish; and the club that loses the player usually cops whatever “collateral” is available.

Players have always largely been able to get to their preferred club. “But they’re doing it more and they’re doing it sooner,” says Wayne Campbell, the ex-Tiger great, current Suns and former GWS head of football.
In theory, the team losing the player should get a fair price. In practice, as Campbell observes, the return “doesn’t necessarily correlate to the value of the player”.

In Melbourne’s case, they had to accept Fremantle’s two first-round picks – one that was pick 13 – for Luke Jackson because that was all the Dockers could offer. Jackson was uncontracted. Today, players don’t really “seek a trade to a Victorian club”. They nominate a specific club.
With expansion to 18 teams, on paper no more than two teams get two top-20 picks from a lowly finish. Early priority picks, which fast-tracked Hawthorn (2008) and Collingwood’s (2010) flags, were cancelled by Melbourne’s tanking scandal. Free agency was introduced, a measure that clearly favours the top sides.

“You have to have more levers than simply relying on the draft,” says Carlton chief executive Brian Cook, who was at Geelong when the Cats – whose 2007 to 2011 dynasty was draft-based – flipped sharply to trades and free agency.
The player-movement culture shifted dramatically when free agency was introduced in 2012. It is revealing that most premiership teams have utilised free agency or trades to a significant degree (the 2016 Bulldogs an exception). The two best players in the 2022 grand final were Isaac Smith, who cost the Cats zero in draft terms, and Patrick Dangerfield, whom they picked up cheaply due to his access to free agency.

Lynch, too, cost the Tigers zilch draft picks in 2018.
As I noted in 2014, when Tom Boyd and Ryan Griffen walked out, despite contracts, free agency shifted how players viewed their relationships with clubs, just as the introduction of no-fault divorce in the 1970s encouraged a culture in which there were more de facto and short-term, live-in relationships: Players, like those emancipated, post sexual revolution couples, had permission to leave.

The two best players in the 2022 grand final were Isaac Smith, who cost the Cats zero in draft terms, and Patrick Dangerfield, whom they picked up cheaply due to his access to free agency.
Faced with a choice between a late draft pick and a proven mature player like Taranto or Hopper, the contending team will want the mature player – provided they have the salary cap room.
This leads to another important shift that has undermined the draft’s mission of comforting the afflicted and afflicting the comfortable: That the better teams can pay players less than the weaker ones.

Lynch and Cameron accepted pay cuts to cross from expansion teams to Richmond and Geelong. Lynch accepted $400,000 a season less at Richmond than he might have received at North. At expansion teams, first-round picks who’ve done squat are handed $400,000-plus in their third year.
Perversely, if you have less access to top-10 picks, as with Geelong and Richmond, then your salary cap is relieved of those inflated third- and fourth-year contracts. It is a safe bet that Sam De Koning, a gun in the 2022 premiership, did not play for much, relative to his value in year three.

The Brodie Grundy trade also underscored the draft’s diminished potency compared with player payments. Grundy was traded to Melbourne for pick 27 – hardly his real worth. But Collingwood’s real gain was the loss of the bulk of a contract worth $900,000-plus over the next five years; the Pies were prepared to lose Grundy and pay a decent share of his contract to create room.
If father-sons and academies compromise the draft, a greater structural imbalance is where players come from, with roughly 55 per cent deriving from Victoria. Geelong, without access to high picks for eons, has ended up with 17 local players (Geelong, western district and surf coast) if you count Cameron.

Another draft issue: the sheer length of time that the pure rebuild takes, as Carlton and previously Melbourne – which had three consecutive attempts before getting it right – can attest.
The draft remains the best and most important vehicle for clubs to pick themselves up from the bottom. Or to regenerate an ageing list. It provides the foundation – such as Carlton’s five A-graders – on which to add. “You have to have something to build with first,” says one renowned list manager.
Once, clubs traded for show and drafted for dough. Today, the draft only gets you on to the fairway, or out of the sand trap.

 

[snails13]

Who was the best player to wear No 10,before the Pou came along

 

[PoppedCorn]

Why the AFL draft isn’t working

The draft, while still important, is no longer shaping the destinies of teams the way it once did.

www.theage.com.au

Anyone keen to print this for us?

Sure
U want me to whack it in the mail?

 

[PoppedCorn]

Who was the best player to wear No 10,before the Pou came along

Have to be Ditts

 

[SaintsSeptember]

I have seen bugger all of Angus McLennan but he looks like he has some talent and has missed a lot of footy , maybe a real sleeper in the draft ?

His writes ups from before he had all the injuries were quiet good , anyone got any info on him ?

We discussed him a bit last year, with the other NGA's and i thought he was passed up in the draft last year, but i'm not sure now, he might have been underage then.

Boys Team

www.sandringhamdragons.com.au

 

[Sun Ra]

Have to be Ditts

Most recently Steve Baker. Before that, Big Carl.