List Mgmt. 2022 List Management and trading thread

[Scorpus]

I saw this format on the West Coast board and thought it might help understand our current list position

 

[ams4crows]

These people floating the idea or "trading" Keays know he's forever a free agent because he was once delisted right?

Also in case you haven't noticed, he's legit Nicks's favourite player so he will not be going anywhere

 

[morris086]

Heard a few Collingwood fans be pretty negative on him as a player.

Any word on how Arlo Draper and Cooper Murley are going?

 

[MRB37]

Any word on how Arlo Draper and Cooper Murley are going?

Think Murley has been doing OK on a half forward role, kicked 8.3 in his 9 games while averaging 14 disposals and 5 marks. Draper seems a bit further behind though, moved him from half forward to half back it looks like, but think both need more physical development too. Bit of beanpole type stuff with them.

 

[AFC979810]

These people floating the idea or "trading" Keays know he's forever a free agent because he was once delisted right?

How does that work?

He signed a two year extension at the end of last year to keep him at the club until 2024. He is no less contracted than any other Crows player.

 

[MRB37]

How does that work?

He signed a two year extension at the end of last year to keep him at the club until 2024. He is no less contracted than any other Crows player.

Once you're delisted by a club you gain unrestricted free agency rights and keep them for the rest of your career. He's still signed with us until 2024, but at the end of that contract he'll be a FA and doesn't have to do the 8 years of service at a club or whatever it is that players normally have to do to gain free agency rights. It's how Mabior Chol was able to leave Richmond for the Suns as an Unrestricted Free Agent because Richmond had delisted him previously and re-drafted him on the rookie draft.

So theoretically we could trade Keays, but we have to do it while he's contracted with us (which means he also needs to agree) because as soon as he's not he is an unrestricted free agent, rather than a restricted one or simple just a regular out of contract player who needs a trade done to move clubs like Dawson for example.

 

[AFC979810]

Once you're delisted by a club you gain unrestricted free agency rights and keep them for the rest of your career. He's still signed with us until 2024, but at the end of that contract he'll be a FA and doesn't have to do the 8 years of service at a club or whatever it is that players normally have to do to gain free agency rights. It's how Mabior Chol was able to leave Richmond for the Suns as an Unrestricted Free Agent because Richmond had delisted him previously and re-drafted him on the rookie draft.

So theoretically we could trade Keays, but we have to do it while he's contracted with us (which means he also needs to agree) because as soon as he's not he is an unrestricted free agent, rather than a restricted one or simple just a regular out of contract player who needs a trade done to move clubs like Dawson for example.

So really no different than any other player whilst under contract.

 

[1970crow]

reacon they’ll offer tex 1 with some really easy triggers for a second..

leaking to the media that you're after 2 can be overplaying your hand a bit. The club knows he needEd rest weeks last year and covid came at the right time for him this year. Would be negligence to extend for 2 years, but we did see Sauce do it. And never underestimate the entitlement of senior players at the AFC.

 

[1970crow]

These people floating the idea or "trading" Keays know he's forever a free agent because he was once delisted right?

Also in case you haven't noticed, he's legit Nicks's favourite player so he will not be going anywhere

he is contracted though, he's not a FA until he's out of contract.

 

[AFC979810]

leaking to the media that you're after 2 can be overplaying your hand a bit. The club knows he needEd rest weeks last year and covid came at the right time for him this year. Would be negligence to demand 2 years, but we did see Sauce do it. And never underestimate the entitlement of senior players at the AFC.

What is this entitlement you speak of?

If Tex wants two years, the market will determine whether he gets 2 years. Quite simple really.

 

[1970crow]

What is this entitlement you speak of?

If Tex wants two years, the market will determine whether he gets 2 years. Quite simple really.

if you haven't noticed by now, you're wilfully ignorant to it.

 

[AFC979810]

if you haven't noticed by now, you're wilfully ignorant to it.

Back in your day - you were happy to just play football for the love of it. Damn youths.

 

[MRB37]

leaking to the media that you're after 2 can be overplaying your hand a bit. The club knows he needEd rest weeks last year and covid came at the right time for him this year. Would be negligence to extend for 2 years, but we did see Sauce do it. And never underestimate the entitlement of senior players at the AFC.

Any player that looks like they need a week off after 4-5 weeks of football can't be given a multi-year contract.

 

[skittlebrew]

Back in your day - you were happy to just play football for the love of it. Damn youths.

Wayyyy too much money in it nowadays to have a relaxed attitude about it

 

[GreyCrow]

What is this entitlement you speak of?

If Tex wants two years, the market will determine whether he gets 2 years. Quite simple really.

Not when its a made up market

Nobody else wants him
Tex wont move anyway
If he believes in backing himself to reach KPIs then go for it

But there is no market

 

[jackster83]

Not when its a made up market

Nobody else wants him
Tex wont move anyway
If he believes in backing himself to reach KPIs then go for it

But there is no market

If someone was going to offer him two years, it would have been last year.

 

[Mego Red]

Not when its a made up market

Nobody else wants him
Tex wont move anyway
If he believes in backing himself to reach KPIs then go for it

But there is no market

I'm sure there's a club or two that would offer Tex two years to get him across.

What's the downside of that for them? They maybe have to carry him on the list for a year? They're only doing it if they're in a window and they're probably gaining two list spots anyway.

 

[Mutineer]

These people floating the idea or "trading" Keays know he's forever a free agent because he was once delisted right?

Also in case you haven't noticed, he's legit Nicks's favourite player so he will not be going anywhere

People?

Person?

 

[Bearded Clam]

These people floating the idea or "trading" Keays know he's forever a free agent because he was once delisted right?

Also in case you haven't noticed, he's legit Nicks's favourite player so he will not be going anywhere

If it is true that Nicksy’s favourite player is Keays.. and I’m not sure that it actually is.. then Nicksy needs to be shown the door.

Nicksy’s favourite player, and by a country mile at the moment, should be Jordan Dawson.

Sure.. Nicksy can love the fact that Ben gives his all, never stops gut running and tries harder than anyone else.. and he could be nicksy favourite player when it comes to these atributes.. but if Nicksy cannot recognise how limited a footballer Ben is when it comes to skills, decision making and execution.. then Nicksy clearly isnt a great coach..

We need more of the “jordan dawson” types and less of the “ben keays” types if we ever want to be a contender again (and Nicksy wants to keep his job) in the next 5 years..

 

[Skippos]

If it is true that Nicksy’s favourite player is Keays.. and I’m not sure that it actually is.. then Nicksy needs to be shown the door.

Nicksy’s favourite player, and by a country mile at the moment, should be Jordan Dawson.

Sure.. Nicksy can love the fact that Ben gives his all, never stops gut running and tries harder than anyone else.. and he could be nicksy favourite player when it comes to these atributes.. but if Nicksy cannot recognise how limited a footballer Ben is when it comes to skills, decision making and execution.. then Nicksy clearly isnt a great coach..

We need more of the “jordan dawson” types and less of the “ben keays” types if we ever want to be a contender again (and Nicksy wants to keep his job) in the next 5 years..

The Keays criticism on here is nuts.

You don't have to be a polished ball user to be an impactful footballer. Plenty of very ordinary users have been very impactful players in good sides. Liam Shiels won three flags. Liam Picken has a good case to have had a norm smith. Peak Luke Dahlhaus started on ball in a flag side. Matt Crouch was a key cog in our successful era. So was Hugh Greenwood. Dom Sheed won his side a grand final. Taylor Adams a key cog in his side making one. Tim Taranto won his side's B&F in a grand final year and has never been able to hit a barn door. Same goes for Bailey Smith who was their best player in the finals last year.

Ollie Wines won a brownlow playing a not dissimilar role to what Keays plays for us now. And probably to an only slightly higher level. Polish & skills are only one ingredient to a successful side.

Obviously not all of these blokes are the heavy lifters for their side that Keays is for ours, but in an ideal list build sense, Keays can remain who he is and we can supplement him with some other heavy lifters. He's aggressive, works hard, at least tries to take the game forward and best of all, runs very hard both ways and actually defends through the middle. That defensive tenacity is what wins finals. You can recover from a turnover with good system. You can't recover sloppy defence.

 

[Mutineer]

The Keays criticism on here is nuts.

You don't have to be a polished ball user to be an impactful footballer. Plenty of very ordinary users have been very impactful players in good sides. Liam Shiels won three flags. Liam Picken has a good case to have had a norm smith. Peak Luke Dahlhaus started on ball in a flag side. Matt Crouch was a key cog in our successful era. So was Hugh Greenwood. Dom Sheed won his side a grand final. Taylor Adams a key cog in his side making one. Tim Taranto won his side's B&F in a grand final year and has never been able to hit a barn door. Same goes for Bailey Smith who was their best player in the finals last year.

Ollie Wines won a brownlow playing a not dissimilar role to what Keays plays for us now. And probably to an only slightly higher level. Polish & skills are only one ingredient to a successful side.

Obviously not all of these blokes are the heavy lifters for their side that Keays is for ours, but in an ideal list build sense, Keays can remain who he is and we can supplement him with some other heavy lifters. He's aggressive, works hard, at least tries to take the game forward and best of all, runs very hard both ways and actually defends through the middle. That defensive tenacity is what wins finals. You can recover from a turnover with good system. You can't recover sloppy defence.

Only by the same protagonists (one in particular), and they just look sillier by the day.

 

[Redline]

leaking to the media that you're after 2 can be overplaying your hand a bit. The club knows he needEd rest weeks last year and covid came at the right time for him this year. Would be negligence to extend for 2 years, but we did see Sauce do it. And never underestimate the entitlement of senior players at the AFC.

It hasn't been great. You don't have to go past the dual captaincy as another example.

He won't go anywhere but to be honest I think it's probably best he did leave on good terms. I still think the playing group need Tex and Sloane to move for a real change in culture.

Also if we are building for a the future there isn't much point having Tex in the team. I think we learn more when he isn't there. In terms of what he teaches the current players, you would think he has probably done as much as he can.

Personally he would gain more from leaving and experiencing another club as well.

He will always be a Champion of the club, it can probably only go downhill over the next few years.

 

[LoBu]

It hasn't been great. You don't have to go past the dual captaincy as another example.

He won't go anywhere but to be honest I think it's probably best he did leave on good terms. I still think the playing group need Tex and Sloane to move for a real change in culture.

Also if we are building for a the future there isn't much point having Tex in the team. I think we learn more when he isn't there. In terms of what he teaches the current players, you would think he has probably done as much as he can.

Personally he would gain more from leaving and experiencing another club as well.

He will always be a Champion of the club, it can probably only go downhill over the next few years.

You just want him back at Norwood, don't you?

 

[1970crow]

Wayyyy too much money in it nowadays to have a relaxed attitude about it

I’m not sure it’s the money though. I reckon that there’s enough reasons
just wanting to keep playing and wanting to avoid such a massive change to your life. These guys are only early 30s and such a drastic change would not be eagerly anticipated.

 

[Mr MysteryGuest]

Chayce Jones - Has never had 20 touches in a game of AFL footy.

Nicks gave him a string of games in the middle in 2020.

Rounds 6-9 he attended 53%, 63%, 85% and 60% of the centre bounces respectively.

In these games he registered 11, 6, 6, and 8 disposals.

He has not attended a centre bounce since.

Where does the blame for this fall? Hamish? Chayce? Coaching/Development?

Sums up our last 5 years.

Not sure why I posted this here. Is he worth persisting with as a BP? Try him again in the middle? Or try and move him on / delist?

Can question the selection, but Nick's and Godden screwed him over that year. He was not physically ready to be a full time inside mid, and he was given weak support by the senior players. They kept playing him in there for far too long even when it was obvious it wasn't working, and there's the rumours about mixed messages from Godden.

 

[DJ75]

Chayce Jones - Has never had 20 touches in a game of AFL footy.

Nicks gave him a string of games in the middle in 2020.

Rounds 6-9 he attended 53%, 63%, 85% and 60% of the centre bounces respectively.

In these games he registered 11, 6, 6, and 8 disposals.

He has not attended a centre bounce since.

Where does the blame for this fall? Hamish? Chayce? Coaching/Development?

Sums up our last 5 years.

Not sure why I posted this here. Is he worth persisting with as a BP? Try him again in the middle? Or try and move him on / delist?

Said it before and I will say it again - Chayce was destroyed in that time by both the coaching (Godden) and the senior players (Crouch's & Sloane).
Godden was pulling apart every movement he made. Chayce's focus was entirely his opponent and to be close to them. The moment Chayce set foot on the ground, the players would change where he was to stand. He was directed to chase their players out of a stoppage.
Chayce went from a strong ball focussed junior mid, to a player so confused about his role and so focussed on what he was being told to do, that he didn't even look for the ball. As far as the senior players were concerned, they got the possessions, he did the other stuff.
Remember that we traditionally primarily base votes and selections on possession numbers in the midfield. This relates to $$$ for bonuses and contracts. If only we rated impact over numbers....

I know all of this for a fact. Not guessing.

With a change of midfield - Laird, Keays, Berry and Hately, along with more experience and no Godden, I'm hopeful that a proper stint in the midfield where he can play on instinct might unleash his ability in that position.