List Mgmt. 2022 List Management and trading thread

[Scorpus]

I saw this format on the West Coast board and thought it might help understand our current list position

 

[maxlilly]

IMO you can only play one of butts and murray anyway so if butts goes down murray comes in. not ideal.

But we have always preferred the 2 x KPD structure.
When Doedee has had to play KPD, we lack size in defence

 

[WaynesWorld19]

If you're forward of the ball playing defensive you're expecting either the contest to be lost and the winning team to go backwards, or for the contest to be won and the kick to your direct opponents advantage. Or you're playing behind the contest

Playing either in front or goal side are both valid provided your team mates at the contest know which way to go

All depends on the ground position of the contest .....I still don't believe Newchurch positions himself correctly, for the benefit of the team .....maybe for his benefit though

 

[Bearded Clam]

I watched the last 8 games + All the SANFL Finals ......enough to see how he plays ....and it's not AFL standard, due to workrate

The games I've seen of Newchurch, he is always goal side of contests when the ball is in dispute .....in other words, he's cheating & looking for the easy ball

Cheating?..

Wtf?.. its pretty clear you’ve watched fxxk all sanfl games if thats your take.

The lad has kicked some absolute ripper goals this year and not only that he’s dished off a shitload of goals to team mates at the same time.

Whats disgusting is that in a year that we’ve meant to have been in rebuild mode.. instead of playing this lad we stuck all year to Mchenry, murphy and Rowe..the same spuds we stuck with all of last year!…

all three of whom who did bugger all in the great majority of games..

Newchurch might not “apply pressure” like the three amigo’s but atleast he kicks fxxkn goals!..

This weird obsession this club and some of its supporters has with small forwards that apply pressure and do very little else continues!.. its like a crazy little sickness..

“Oh, we cant have a small forward that kicks goals if he doesnt apply forward pressure… we’re way better off with small forwards that dont kick goals at all!”

If it was me.. I’d be delisting Rowe, murphy and Mchenry before I delisted Newchurch.

Thank fxxk we have Rankine coming in.

 

[DJ75]

I can only speak of the last 10 x SANFL games .....but Newchurch was only on the wing for small periods .....Cook and Nankervis were the Wingmen

The fact there were no small fwds, with so many packs, in the SANFL .....falls back squarely on Newchurch's inability to get to the base of the contest ......call it poor workrate or laziness

I'm not saying they are playing wing as their designated positions, more that we push all our smaller forwards so far up the ground and to the contest, that when we do get the ball in the F50, we have no smalls there. It's a gameplan issue.

 

[DJ75]

So if we delist Borlase and Frampton goes to Collingwood, what are we going to do about our KPD ?
Michalanney is 191cm and 74 kg, there is no way he can play KPD

Wasn't there a rumour we had interest in Weideman from Melbourne? Maybe for that reason? Maybe we have eyes on a back up KPD somewhere.

 

[WaynesWorld19]

I'm not saying they are playing wing as their designated positions, more that we push all our smaller forwards so far up the ground and to the contest, that when we do get the ball in the F50, we have no smalls there. It's a gameplan issue.

Or a workrate issue ? ......doesn't seem to be a barrier to Charlie Cameron, doing that

 

[DJ75]

Cheating?..

Wtf?.. its pretty clear you’ve watched fxxk all sanfl games if thats your take.

The lad has kicked some absolute ripper goals this year and not only that he’s dished off a shitload of goals to team mates at the same time.

Whats disgusting is that in a year that we’ve meant to have been in rebuild mode.. instead of playing this lad we stuck all year to Mchenry, murphy and Rowe..the same spuds we stuck with all of last year!…

all three of whom who did bugger all in the great majority of games..

Newchurch might not “apply pressure” like the three amigo’s but atleast he kicks fxxkn goals!..

This weird obsession this club and some of its supporters has with small forwards that apply pressure and do very little else continues!.. its like a crazy little sickness..

“Oh, we cant have a small forward that kicks goals if he doesnt apply forward pressure… we’re way better off with small forwards that dont kick goals at all!”

If it was me.. I’d be delisting Rowe, murphy and Mchenry before I delisted Newchurch.

Thank fxxk we have Rankine coming in.

Will be fun when Rankine is 80 m away from goal for most of the game and being coached on his 'pressure'...

I hope we are smart enough to let him play his natural game.

 

[DJ75]

Or a workrate issue ? ......doesn't seem to be a barrier to Charlie Cameron, doing that

There's no doubt his workrate is not good enough.
But I definitely think our game plan does not help small forwards whose main strength should be kicking goals.

 

[maxlilly]

Wasn't there a rumour we had interest in Weideman from Melbourne? Maybe for that reason? Maybe we have eyes on a back up KPD somewhere.

I think there was a rumour about our interest in Weideman but with Melbourne losing Jackson, I think he will stay

 

[rabidcrow]

Wasn't there a rumour we had interest in Weideman from Melbourne? Maybe for that reason? Maybe we have eyes on a back up KPD somewhere.

We are unlikely to have the list positions to bring another trade target - and we have hardly any picks at this stage either. For this reason Borlase - who sits outside the system - will stay for another year


Sent from my iPhone using BigFooty.com

 

[Runnin Blue]

It’s true that Newchurch stands off many contests waiting for the easy ball. I also got sick of seeing him jog after an opposition player with the ball, almost halfheartedly, when we know he has pace to burn. It was embarrassing to watch.

His weakness is purely his effort. He needs to pull his finger out if he wants an AFL career.

 

[Mutineer]

Cheating?..

Wtf?.. its pretty clear you’ve watched fxxk all sanfl games if thats your take.

The lad has kicked some absolute ripper goals this year and not only that he’s dished off a shitload of goals to team mates at the same time.

Whats disgusting is that in a year that we’ve meant to have been in rebuild mode.. instead of playing this lad we stuck all year to Mchenry, murphy and Rowe..the same spuds we stuck with all of last year!…

all three of whom who did bugger all in the great majority of games..

Newchurch might not “apply pressure” like the three amigo’s but atleast he kicks fxxkn goals!..

This weird obsession this club and some of its supporters has with small forwards that apply pressure and do very little else continues!.. its like a crazy little sickness..

“Oh, we cant have a small forward that kicks goals if he doesnt apply forward pressure… we’re way better off with small forwards that dont kick goals at all!”

If it was me.. I’d be delisting Rowe, murphy and Mchenry before I delisted Newchurch.

Thank fxxk we have Rankine coming in.

If Newchurch doesn't pull his finger out he is odds on to get spat out of the AFL system....it's never been a talent issue he has that in spades, it's a work rate/desire issue and only one person can facilitate that....Tariek himself.

A touch of hardness wouldn't go astray either, it's not as though he's a 60kg weakling.

You're kidding yourself if you think any AFL coaching panel would select him at the top level while he has such glaring deficiences in his gamer.

 

[crow2crow]

But we have always preferred the 2 x KPD structure.
When Doedee has had to play KPD, we lack size in defence

we have worrell

 

[DaKids]

There's no doubt his workrate is not good enough.
But I definitely think our game plan does not help small forwards whose main strength should be kicking goals.

I keep banging on about this. The game doesn’t allow for an old fashioned forward pocket like I was brought up on.

There’s 2 points to this. Firstly as you say there must be the willingness to get up the ground and work defensively. And 2, well guess what - good opposition sure as hell will be working back. So that means he also needs to know how to win contests in his own congested forward line. Cause repeat throw ups, lock the ball in.

Sure there’s the odd time where a team can break open some space, but it’s not regular.

 

[Alwaysacrow]

Have you been watching him in the sanfl all year?..

He is an absolute gun in that league.

We have literally won a shitload of our games due to him being an absolute general in defense. And… He sets up so much play.

He only became a KPD halfway through last year.. he’s played about 5 AFL games as a KPD.. one he dominated in.. 1 he got destroyed in (not that it was all his fault though) and the others he played alright in..

His 1v1 defending has definitely been improving but it still remains to be seen whether he can solidify himself as a very good AFL level KPD..

Guess it looks like we’ll see if he can.. just in a pies guernsey..


My worry is that we have ZERO KPD depth and that if we get rid of Frampton and one of Butts or Murray goes down we will be completely fxxked. And they way Murray throws himself around its almost a given!

Some might say “oh, but we’ll just trade in a fringe KPD from another club to replace him”… whats the point of that?.. we might as well just stick with Frampton if we’re gonna do that!

And I think our SANFL team will also suffer next year.. wouldnt you rather we be developing our youth in a competitive side over a side thats struggling?..

Spot on!!! There are players in our team I'd gladly give away for a mouldy piece of cheese, (McHenry), but not Frampton. He gets much maligned here but in my opinion he's serviceable backup. Without him we've got virtually nothing in that department.

 

[Bearded Clam]

It’s true that Newchurch stands off many contests waiting for the easy ball. I also got sick of seeing him jog after an opposition player with the ball, almost halfheartedly, when we know he has pace to burn. It was embarrassing to watch.

His weakness is purely his effort. He needs to pull his finger out if he wants an AFL career.

would not surprise me in the least to hear that this is exactly what he is being told to do..

Stand off the contest as a reciever and once he gets the ball to take off with it using his pace.

There is actually video footage of Nicks instructing him to do exactly that at training last preseason.. but if they are still instructing him to do it then there is something wrong.

There is something very strange with the way the entire SANFL side played the last few games of the season.. they went from an attacking high pressure game to a zone off and man space game that simply allowed their opponents to just chip the ball out of their D50 almost the entire length of the field.. resulted in uncontested mark after uncontested mark as no crows player was ever right on top of their opponent.

It was just strange..

 

[Bearded Clam]

If Newchurch doesn't pull his finger out he is odds on to get spat out of the AFL system....it's never been a talent issue he has that in spades, it's a work rate/desire issue and only one person can facilitate that....Tariek himself.

A touch of hardness wouldn't go astray either, it's not as though he's a 60kg weakling.

You're kidding yourself if you think any AFL coaching panel would select him at the top level while he has such glaring deficiences in his gamer.

Yet we continued to pick Murphy, Rowe and McHenry and use them as small forwards with all their glaring deficiencies!..

The biggest of which is their inability to hit the bloody scoreboard.

 

[crow2crow]

did anyone else notice yesterday that our AFL players played to the stand rule even though thats not the SANFL rule? that must be really confusing going up and back from one league to another.

norwood on the other hand just did as they pleased... as you would.

 

[crow2crow]

if pear miss out on dunkley (will go brisbane IMO) could we offer them hately in a trade - seriously cannot see him getting close to being selected next year (others will disagree)

its just for more points to work picks up the draft

 

[Mego Red]

"Wings are out of the play" has to be one of the more laughable excuses for playing Dawson in defence that I've heard.

Langdon, Amon, Isaac Smith, Seedsman, even Dawson at times himself for Sydney last year, to name a few, have all dominated off a wing in recent seasons.

Dawson should have been an easy positional switch for Seed after sadly losing him this year - at least play Dawson there occasionally as part of his rotations if Nicks wanted to maintain some of Dawson's drive from D50.

Great - so out of maybe 40 first choice wingmen in the comp, you've named four who have managed to overcome the challenges of the position - such as being pulled out of the play - to actually have a regular influence on the game.

Ge read the list of wingmen and see how few actually impact play - the best you should expect is spasmodic impact as an outside runner when you're not on the fat side.

But sure - maybe, if we're lucky, and Dawson is amongst the absolute best in the position, he could have the same level of impact as Karl Amon.

 

[Mego Red]

I know but they were so bad in these finals I think they will be cut free

list spots are not the only resource they consume...

davis gonsky too I forgot him

I know it doesnt help with senior list spots thats why
crouch, brown, billy, sholl, rowe will all get traded
and seed sadly retired

What else are they consuming? People's time occasionally talking to them? They wear out the thread on the exercise bike?

Having them for a year costs eff all in salary cap, and I don't believe the 12th best top-up we could find will be better than them. If they are - cut them tomorrow.

 

[George CantStandYa]

Great - so out of maybe 40 first choice wingmen in the comp, you've named four who have managed to overcome the challenges of the position - such as being pulled out of the play - to actually have a regular influence on the game.

Ge read the list of wingmen and see how few actually impact play - the best you should expect is spasmodic impact as an outside runner when you're not on the fat side.

But sure - maybe, if we're lucky, and Dawson is amongst the absolute best in the position, he could have the same level of impact as Karl Amon.

If we are lucky? You thinking Dawson isn't up there with those players?

More quality apologist mental gymnastics, keep it up.

 

[Mego Red]

Gollant was rubbish for a large portion of the second half of the year.
Good AFL players don't tend to do that when they are 21.

Good news, as he wasn't 21 yet. That should now change.

 

[crow2crow]

What else are they consuming? People's time occasionally talking to them? They wear out the thread on the exercise bike?

Having them for a year costs eff all in salary cap, and I don't believe the 12th best top-up we could find will be better than them. If they are - cut them tomorrow.

you might be right we will see i just thought they were both poorer than poor in the finals

 

[Eagleboy2011]

If Newchurch doesn't pull his finger out he is odds on to get spat out of the AFL system....it's never been a talent issue he has that in spades, it's a work rate/desire issue and only one person can facilitate that....Tariek himself.

A touch of hardness wouldn't go astray either, it's not as though he's a 60kg weakling.

You're kidding yourself if you think any AFL coaching panel would select him at the top level while he has such glaring deficiences in his gamer.

Agree with you. I see talent but he is not improving. He has had some good games but far and few. All clubs have to make calls on similar players and they some don't have the patience .If he is delisted I wonder how he would perform at another SANFL club. Personally I would delist him and wish him the best.