List Mgmt. 2022 Trade & List Management Thread

[AnEmptyChair]

If we need another KPD we should be doing both.

We have Walker, Corr, McKay and McGuiness all at about the same age difference (2-3 years) and based on that we are due for another KPD from somewhere in that 18 (17-19) year old age group that we start developing now. Not for now but for 2027/28. One good KPD every three years from whatever source is enough that we should then have a good mix of youth and experience across that role. That way we have long term options. Ideally that would be perfect and we could react to players not developing or leaving etc etc with Free Agents.

We could do the same using Larks, then Comben and maybe Edwards as KPFs. Provided they are coming on then we get another in a couple of years to develop as these current guys dominate. Then its a matter of maintaining our midfield over a decade or more. Which is harder as the best prospects go low in the draft. Its doable with smart trading tho as Melbourne have shown recently. They seem to always have good draft access.

Everything should be directed to winning a flag. If we can trade one or multiple higher picks to get an established KPD that we think will help us win, then we should. I don't think we should say we wont trade picks for one because we'll need a KPD down the line.

 

[Fish Sticks]

Re Charlie Dean or any overlooked hyped up player, I've seen this cut both ways over the years.

Will Gayfer was a young fullback, (much) older brother had been a Collingwood player. Every phantom draft talked him up and it was a 'shock' when he slid all the way through the ND, PSD and rookie drafts that year. He went on to never get on an AFL list and never make AFL clubs regret that call. So much ado about nothing.

On the other hand you have Aaron Davey. Came from the clouds to play with our VFL affiliate (Port Melbourne). Was just electric and eye-catching, great guy, came to the North end of season BBQ and wanted to come to North Melbourne. VFL commentary spoke about him as a potential early pick.

Every club overthought it and overlooked him in the ND, PSD and then we decided to forfeit our rookie pick for financial reasons ( ) and Melbourne snapped him up. He went on to have a very good career, showcased his extreme pace and skills in the AFL and would've been a very handy inclusion in our 2000s side to complement Boomer and Wells a the feet of Rocca, Petrie, Hale et al. It's worth noting he ended up having a better career than just about every ND pick from that year.

So Charlie Dean might be the next Will Gayfer, the next Aaron Davey or somewhere in between. Who knows?

There are always the odd gem found in the rookie draft, but history suggests they are more likely to be a Will Gayfer than an Aaron Davey.
I have no idea if we made the right call passing up Charlie Dean, but our recruitment team obviously doesn’t rate him highly or else we would have taken him with a late ND or rookie pick, considering our need for another KPD.

 

[Fish Sticks]

Yeh I've been on the same page that queries how our books are so loaded that we needed to value Tom Lynch's coaching prowess higher than one more speculative player.

I guess we'll know in a couple of years which way it works out. If our group develops at least well as we all hope then you have to think the coaching move was part of that mix. If Charlie Dean goes on to have a devastating AA level AFL career then we have to cop that opportunity cost too.

From listening to a number of coaches being interviewed over the last year, they have all said that the biggest obstacle clubs face now is player development, with the introduction of the soft cap to football departments.

I see this as us trying to get a leg up on other clubs by having an extra development coach who can be ‘hands on’ playing alongside & providing in-game coaching at VFL level.

Whether or not this is the right call… I have NFI

 

[Shinboner1]

From listening to a number of coaches being interviewed over the last year, they have all said that the biggest obstacle clubs face now is player development, with the introduction of the soft cap to football departments.

I see this as us trying to get a leg up on other clubs by having an extra development coach who can be ‘hands on’ playing alongside & providing in-game coaching at VFL level.

Whether or not this is the right call… I have NFI

Interesting, haven't really heard that before.

 

[ferball]

Everything should be directed to winning a flag. If we can trade one or multiple higher picks to get an established KPD that we think will help us win, then we should. I don't think we should say we wont trade picks for one because we'll need a KPD down the line.

Obviously.

But at the same time if you develop one good KPD every three drafts you're meeting those criteria I set. That's not a high bar to get over. You don't have to do that at the expense of trading in a gun KPD for this years or next years first round pick. WE should be able to do both those things.

Scooter was from Barwon heads wasn't he? Not drafted initially but developed as a mature age recruit.

Taz was a forward originally.

Maj should have been a KPD forever.

Ben McKay was drafted as one.

Matt McGuiness is a CAt B rookie.

JWalker and Corr were both traded in.

There are four players we developed as KPDs and one we failed to develop till too late. Only two were high draft picks and one of them was drafted as a forward. Of those seven guys we only got two thru trading. So no, we don't need to rely on high draft picks if there are good trading options now. We've shown we can get good backmen in whatever manner we need to. We've also developed four backmen and three of them are (or were) AA quality. Of the four only McGuiness hasn't shown himself to be a good to excellent AFL backman. Yet. If we'd played maj down back since the start it could have been four of five AAs.

We don't need to spend our first pick on a backmen in 2022 and trading it for Darcy Moore wouldn't be a bad move either. And unless there is a genuine JHF type stand out we don't need another high pick this year. So we're in a position over the next few years to spend draft picks on anyone we might think is the difference between finals and a flag. And we can do all that while trading our best picks for players we think will get us a flag when we need to.

And as an aside, that history of identifying and developing defenders makes me confident that not picking Dean isn't that big a deal.

 

[HBFlanker]

I meant to trade in a developed player.

I get that, but its a very small pool of players in that space.

We could maybe split a top 6 pick for two later firsts, and use one of them on a young KPD, but again its a small pool.

Theres a bit to play out. I havent given up hope that either Comben or Xerri become a solid KPD.

 

[Merlin007]

I get that, but its a very small pool of players in that space.

We could maybe split a top 6 pick for two later firsts, and use one of them on a young KPD, but again its a small pool.

Theres a bit to play out. I havent given up hope that either Comben or Xerri become a solid KPD.

It won't be X, unless there's a transfusion of burst speed and agility available somewhere

 

[The Nostradamus]

I meant to trade in a developed player.

Keen to hear which out of contract players you’d target

I agree with the others who have mentioned no point drafting an 18 year old, we need to being in a ready made youngish KPD

 

[Lomas]

Keen to hear which out of contract players you’d target

I agree with the others who have mentioned no point drafting an 18 year old, we need to being in a ready made youngish KPD

Not after an 18yo either. They don’t need to be out of contract, although that is preferable.
We would be watching plenty of young KPPs pretty closely, more likely to come at the expense of our 2023 first than our 2022, so there is time for plenty of players to come into the picture.

 

[The Nostradamus]

Not after an 18yo either. They don’t need to be out of contract, although that is preferable.
We would be watching plenty of young KPPs pretty closely, more likely to come at the expense of our 2023 first than our 2022, so there is time for plenty of players to come into the picture.

Yep any of those type of players come to mind for you?

I’d say we’d want to ideally target a player end of this year

 

[Lomas]

Yep any of those type of players come to mind for you?

I’d say we’d want to ideally target a player end of this year

Not at this stage, which is probably why I am leaning towards 2023 pick to see what emerges. Will be interesting to keep an eye on.

 

[The Nostradamus]

Not at this stage, which is probably why I am leaning towards 2023 pick to see what emerges. Will be interesting to keep an eye on.

What will help is free agents
Ones available this year:

• Alex Pearce
• Darcy Moore
• Darcy Gardiner
• Jayden Laverde
• Dan McStay (can play back)

The first 2 will be hard to pry away and cost the most

It’s definitely not going to be easy to get one and I don’t know if we want to have the same situation for another season next year I think we’d look to address it end of this year by trade or free agency

 

[Makeshift Park]

What will help is free agents
Ones available this year:

• Alex Pearce
• Darcy Moore
• Darcy Gardiner
• Jayden Laverde
• Dan McStay (can play back)

The first 2 will be hard to pry away and cost the most

It’s definitely not going to be easy to get one and I don’t know if we want to have the same situation for another season next year I think we’d look to address it end of this year by trade or free agency

When you say "cost the most", Moore is probably just below $1m. You really reckon Pearce would be attracting much more than $600k?

 

[Nutjob]

I just hope if lynch does take the last rookie spot that we can free that spot up for the MSD. Put him on inactive list before round 11

At worst, can’t we just say Lynch has a LTI just before the draft?


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[The Nostradamus]

At worst, can’t we just say Lynch has a LTI just before the draft?


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I hope so but not 100% sure if he doesn’t actually have an LTI for optics we might have to “retire” him to get the spot open

When you say "cost the most", Moore is probably just below $1m. You really reckon Pearce would be attracting much more than $600k?

Yeah I could see him at 600-700k if he stays fit this year

 

[Makeshift Park]

So here's another way of thinking about it. The new player salary cap in 2022 is gonna be $13.5m.

Lets take on board a few assumptions:
1) we need to invest in another serious KPD, and realistically the only option we have to capitalise on our stars prime years will be to make a trade period acquisition;
2) everyone here is on board with signing long term deals with likes of JHF and TT (who obviously just signed a contract, but will probably be a superstar when his next contract ends in 2 years, who we'll need to fund accordingly), let alone everyone else.
3) Based on the trend, we're looking at a player cap of $14.something million for 2023.

So roughly how much do you dedicate to your star KPD recruit? Obviously we can't get forensic without seeing the real numbers, but my vibe is that if we're paying Cunners and Ziebell approx $700k a year, surely it makes sense to be paying up to a parity rate for an elite KPD, if we can get the right one.

I for one doubt it'd be a good idea to pay much more than our most valuable players' salaries for a new KPD though. Which presumably rules Darcy Moore

30

Darcy Moore

Age

29

Ht

203cm

Wt

100kg

Pos.

Def

Career

Season

Last 5

D

11.1

3star

K

7.0

3star

HB

4.1

3star

M

4.8

5star

T

1.6

4star

MG

169.1

3star

D

13.9

3star

K

7.3

3star

HB

6.6

4star

M

4.9

5star

T

0.7

1star

MG

182.0

3star

D

6.8

2star

K

4.2

2star

HB

2.6

3star

M

2.6

3star

T

1.8

4star

MG

87.4

2star

out.

 

[Nutjob]

I'm not that fussed about not getting a KPD last year. We lack depth, sure, but McKay, Walker, Corr is fine for a developing side and while I like Mahony, we definitely needed a genuine goalkicking small on our list and hopefully Curtis is that.

But this post is also true. I don't see the benefit of getting an 18 year old tall back in this years draft. It doesn't fit our timeline IMO. I'd rather trade the pick, and another one if we have to, to get an established KPD in that 21-25 age range or get a FA to fill that space.

There are some pretty handy key defenders taken early in recent drafts.

Weitering
Lever
Naughton (Drafted as a defender and would dominate down back IMO)
DGB (Will be a player)
Haynes
Lukosius
Ben King (could play back with ease and did as a junior)
Moore
Chapman (Will be a player)
Corr

I could even throw some older types like Tarrant, Hurley, Rance, etc in.

I also don’t really get the whole timeline angle. All the players above played in their first year and most had an immediate impact. There is no doubt some players need 2-3 years to develop, but there a lot that come in ready for AFL. Generally speaking the ones picked near the top seem to be more ready made.

I think we also need to look at long term success rather than a 3-4 year window. Whilst we have a very good young core coming through, we want to keep developing the next crop coming through as well for sustained success.

Admittedly there are a lot of elite defenders taken later in the draft or even as rookies. But if a key defender came along at our first and we thought he was I sure thing, I wouldn’t hesitate to pick him.


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[KangaRooster]

Footy department have been nothing short of elite the last couple years, KPD’s are surely top of the to-do list now and it’s just a waiting game for us to see who they bring in

 

[Star]

All this talk about drafting a high pick young KPD versus trading for a star established KPD.

Y’all know we can do both yeah?

 

[Del191229]

There are always the odd gem found in the rookie draft

 

[Roosurgence]

If we can afford Darcy Moore

30

Darcy Moore

Age

29

Ht

203cm

Wt

100kg

Pos.

Def

Career

Season

Last 5

D

11.1

3star

K

7.0

3star

HB

4.1

3star

M

4.8

5star

T

1.6

4star

MG

169.1

3star

D

13.9

3star

K

7.3

3star

HB

6.6

4star

M

4.9

5star

T

0.7

1star

MG

182.0

3star

D

6.8

2star

K

4.2

2star

HB

2.6

3star

M

2.6

3star

T

1.8

4star

MG

87.4

2star

, then should be throwing our hat in the ring.

A backline of McKay and Moore as your key defenders with Corr the floating 3rd tall would set us up.

The List Management Team should be trying to attract players with the lure of success based on the talent we have coming through.

We might not be a destination club yet, but if these kids come on, I think you will find a lot of player managers might enquire about the possibility of their player coming to North.

 

[The Nostradamus]

If we can afford Darcy Moore, then should be throwing our hat in the ring.

A backline of McKay and Moore as your key defenders with Corr the floating 3rd tall would set us up.

The List Management Team should be trying to attract players with the lure of success based on the talent we have coming through.

We might not be a destination club yet, but if these kids come on, I think you will find a lot of player managers might enquire about the possibility of their player coming to North.

Yep if our recruiting team haven’t spoken to his manager yet then I’d be concerned

Collingwood are currently trying to negotiate with Moore’s manager to lock him in. At the very least if we can’t get him at least bump up his price

 

[Shinboner1]

If we can afford Darcy Moore, then should be throwing our hat in the ring.

A backline of McKay and Moore as your key defenders with Corr the floating 3rd tall would set us up.

The List Management Team should be trying to attract players with the lure of success based on the talent we have coming through.

We might not be a destination club yet, but if these kids come on, I think you will find a lot of player managers might enquire about the possibility of their player coming to North.

I just don't see Moore leaving.

 

[Psicosis]

Moore is now in Collingwoods leadership group. Will be primed to be their captain post Pendles/Adams.

The extremely unlikely is now impossible.

 

[The Nostradamus]

It would be unlikely but still money talks

Or if we can’t get Moore then making Collingwood get closer to our offer is also a minor win