Training 2022 Training Reports

[freoextra]

Just extending this, I would rate the "creativity" of our coaches from high to low something like this;
Neesham
Connolly
Harvey
Lyon
Longmuir
Drum

Yeah I would agree with the exception of I would have Longmuir just ahead of Lyon. I was more frustrated with the lack of trying players especially new players by Lyon. Lyon was creative in that if the team was behind at half time you often saw a very different style in the second half but in general I think Longmuir is slightly more creative in changing game styles during the game and certainly more willing to try new talented players.

 

[Piggy Smalls]

Just extending this, I would rate the "creativity" of our coaches from high to low something like this;
Neesham
Connolly
Harvey
Lyon
Longmuir
Drum

Drum’s creativity strongly aligned with his football IQ and motivation/management skills.

 

[Piggy Smalls]

I’d have Lyon and Longmuir almost as a dead heat of ultra conservatism on exposed evidence. Although as others have pointed out, JL is still playing with the foundations.

 

[theGav56]

Yeah I would agree with the exception of I would have Longmuir just ahead of Lyon. I was more frustrated with the lack of trying players especially new players by Lyon. Lyon was creative in that if the team was behind at half time you often saw a very different style in the second half but in general I think Longmuir is slightly more creative in changing game styles during the game and certainly more willing to try new talented players.

Both Lyon and Longmuir are defensive minded coaches which works towards being conservative. Coaching has a huge focus on statistics.

I was a Geelong supporter back in the Blight era and was devastated by the ease in which Malthouse's conservative strategies killed off the much more creative mindset of the Cats game.

If Longmuir becomes a defensive coach with a creative aspect to his game we are on a winner.

 

[blue shark]

Both Lyon and Longmuir are defensive minded coaches which works towards being conservative. Coaching has a huge focus on statistics.

I was a Geelong supporter back in the Blight era and was devastated by the ease in which Malthouse's conservative strategies killed off the much more creative mindset of the Cats game.

If Longmuir becomes a defensive coach with a creative aspect to his game we are on a winner.

Blight was a better coach at Adelaide, he had learned from his previous losses, less predictable and quicker to make changes.
Cats only had one way of playing, on their terms.
The great coaches find a way, or move a player, players to find that mis-match. Especially when they are evenly matched.

 

[Purple Jesus]

Just extending this, I would rate the "creativity" of our coaches from high to low something like this;
Neesham
Connolly
Harvey
Lyon
Longmuir
Drum

You're doubling down on 'JL isn't creative' when he hasn't had the opportunity yet? Bizarre.

 

[blue shark]

You're doubling down on 'JL isn't creative' when he hasn't had the opportunity yet? Bizarre.

If we have a small injury list this year, JLo will have to get inventive.
A healthy list would be so unfamiliar.
A top 30 also doesn’t hurt, but we are lucky to use under 35 players in a year.

 

[theGav56]

You're doubling down on 'JL isn't creative' when he hasn't had the opportunity yet? Bizarre.

Hilarious.

I am saying that he hasn't shown himself to be a creative coach to date. The only counter to that has been that he moved Pearce to the forward line when our tall forwards were injured, and that he played young players. Those don't make a strong counter point. I don't think you have actually offered any examples of him demonstrating creative coaching. Match winning moves or reinventing Tarrant as a defender kind of thing. He may well demonstrate that kind of thing in the future, but until then he projects as a conservative coach.

Unlike you, I am not highly in favour of head coaches being overly creative. I think assistants generally are better in that role workingcloselywithin their areas. Our assistants have been too conservative or too inexperienced.

 

[anchor man]

Gee this looks like a sensitive subject.

To me both Cuddles and Neesham were significantly more creative coaches. It didn't equate to a winning strategy.

I don't believe that either had the same standard of list that we have now.
Neesham's was a good plan, but did not have the cattle to carry it out as he was able to at WAFL level.
I still believe that Connolly could have been our best coach taken into account he was not only the coach, but hewas basically trying to establish a brand for the club. He was the marketing manager trying to lure sponsors and drive up the profile of the club.
We will see just what sort of coach Longmuir is if we start the season off on a winning note. And that the reserves at Peel are good enough to pressurise those with the first leg into the league side.
I think he has the flair to make us successful.

 

[Docker82]

If we have a small injury list this year, JLo will have to get inventive.
A healthy list would be so unfamiliar.
A top 30 also doesn’t hurt, but we are lucky to use under 35 players in a year.

35 in year is probably around league average tbh. I remember looking at it in 2020 when they were talking of reducing lists and I think two, maybe three sides didn’t use a certain number of players in 2019. Can’t remember the number exactly - pretty sure it was somewhere in the mid 30s.

We actually used 39 players last season, with everyone except Hill, NOD, Valente and Thomas lining up at least once.

Overall you probably have 35-39 play most seasons (that’s what happened at most clubs this year btw). Why you’re using that many players is the bigger issue imo. If you have a solid top 30 that make up the team most games and your match winners and important structural pieces are mostly playing you’re likely to perform close to your potential. We were selecting from outside our top 30 most games last season imo. You may have your top 30 but most teams debut one or two players throughout the season that are perhaps not top 30.

I honestly think you need a few more than a top 30 these days unless you’re extremely lucky. Melbourne’s luck with injuries this season was almost unrivalled in recent history tbh but even then Brisbane used less players.

FWIW the Western Bulldogs used the equal most players this year with 41.

Number of players used this season is at the bottom of this table for each club if anyone is interested https://afltables.com/afl/stats/2021.html.

 

[Purple Jesus]

Hilarious.

I am saying that he hasn't shown himself to be a creative coach to date. The only counter to that has been that he moved Pearce to the forward line when our tall forwards were injured, and that he played young players. Those don't make a strong counter point. I don't think you have actually offered any examples of him demonstrating creative coaching. Match winning moves or reinventing Tarrant as a defender kind of thing. He may well demonstrate that kind of thing in the future, but until then he projects as a conservative coach.

Unlike you, I am not highly in favour of head coaches being overly creative. I think assistants generally are better in that role workingcloselywithin their areas. Our assistants have been too conservative or too inexperienced.

Have you even read any of my posts on this? I'm not arguing whether he is or isn't creative. I am simply pointing out that it's far too soon to tell either way so it's completely pointless to try to argue it now.

 

[Granny Val]

I imagine he is at best in quarantine

Before Christmas I heard from his family that the club did not want him to spend two weeks in quarantine. They sent him a training program to complete in Victoria. Not sure if that is still the case, but I hope and trust that the club is looking out for him.

On SM-G960F using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[theGav56]

Have you even read any of my posts on this? I'm not arguing whether he is or isn't creative. I am simply pointing out that it's far too soon to tell either way so it's completely pointless to try to argue it now.

I'm not arguing it. I'm observing it. Longmuir may turn out to be the most creative coach of all time. But he hasn't shown that yet.

 

[Purple Jesus]

I'm not arguing it. I'm observing it. Longmuir may turn out to be the most creative coach of all time. But he hasn't shown that yet.

 

[DragoDelph]

Is there a little bit of this going on?

 

[Pusswah]

What a campaigner of a thread.

Get back to running laps you lazy welps.

 

[blue shark]

35 in year is probably around league average tbh. I remember looking at it in 2020 when they were talking of reducing lists and I think two, maybe three sides didn’t use a certain number of players in 2019. Can’t remember the number exactly - pretty sure it was somewhere in the mid 30s.

We actually used 39 players last season, with everyone except Hill, NOD, Valente and Thomas lining up at least once.

Overall you probably have 35-39 play most seasons (that’s what happened at most clubs this year btw). Why you’re using that many players is the bigger issue imo. If you have a solid top 30 that make up the team most games and your match winners and important structural pieces are mostly playing you’re likely to perform close to your potential. We were selecting from outside our top 30 most games last season imo. You may have your top 30 but most teams debut one or two players throughout the season that are perhaps not top 30.

I honestly think you need a few more than a top 30 these days unless you’re extremely lucky. Melbourne’s luck with injuries this season was almost unrivalled in recent history tbh but even then Brisbane used less players.

FWIW the Western Bulldogs used the equal most players this year with 41.

Number of players used this season is at the bottom of this table for each club if anyone is interested https://afltables.com/afl/stats/2021.html.

It makes for interesting reading, but I wonder what Covid, Hubs, lack of a pre-season, etc, has on the figures?
The Top teams in Lions, Dees, Port, Cats, had the least injury.
Bulldogs with some luck, better structure should have a decent
window. Lions, Port thinking what if?
Cats look like they are hanging by a thread.

 

[theGav56]

It makes for interesting reading, but I wonder what Covid, Hubs, lack of a pre-season, etc, has on the figures?
The Top teams in Lions, Dees, Port, Cats, had the least injury.
Bulldogs with some luck, better structure should have a decent
window. Lions, Port thinking what if?
Cats look like they are hanging by a thread.

I've never been totally happy with injuries being linked to luck. Of course there is an element to it. List management has a role. We would have been luckier if we didn't trade in Bennell and Hogan for example. Others have highlighted that a more physically combative and demanding game style (as we had under Lyon) may lead to more injuries.

Also, I wonder if list age has a correlation to injury?

 

[Taylor]

You guys agree.
Let's move on.

Where does Freddy need to finish in the post break time trial to be front runner, hehe, for the roaming half forward/wing position?

 

[theGav56]

Where does Freddy need to finish in the post break time trial to be front runner, hehe, for the roaming half forward/wing position?

It's a bit of a crowded field. Doubt if his running power is going to be the make or break issue, but if it was it would be his I suspect.

How much say would Graham have to the preferred players in the forward half?

 

[Taylor]

It's a bit of a crowded field. Doubt if his running power is going to be the make or break issue, but if it was it would be his I suspect.

How much say would Graham have to the preferred players in the forward half?

I'd hope that the forward coach gets to pick their forward line and the only overriding action to change that is if the senior coach says he wants to play a structural player and they have to start in the forward line - such as the high half forward who plays as the extra at the contest or even that Dane Swan role where he runs up the ground for a loose option to secure ground with a mark.

The most interesting person who could win the time trial would be Nathan Wilson in my opinion.

 

[theGav56]

I'd hope that the forward coach gets to pick their forward line and the only overriding action to change that is if the senior coach says he wants to play a structural player and they have to start in the forward line - such as the high half forward who plays as the extra at the contest or even that Dane Swan role where he runs up the ground for a loose option to secure ground with a mark.

The most interesting person who could win the time trial would be Nathan Wilson in my opinion.

I would be adding more marking power if possible, which is where the likes of Sturt and Erasmus come into play if their running ability is also strong. Our tall forwards can play their positions much better if we have more options. But I don't know how those two will go delivering the ball inside 50.

 

[theGav56]

.

The most interesting person who could win the time trial would be Nathan Wilson in my opinion.

Out of contract and a poor end to his season; he should be up and about. I'm a fan, but with Clark coming and Walker impressing Wilson has become a little vulnerable.

 

[Piggy Smalls]

You guys agree.
Let's move on.

Where does Freddy need to finish in the post break time trial to be front runner, hehe, for the roaming half forward/wing position?

Based on his early form last year surely he’d just have to finish and get through pre season unscathed? I can see him and Sturt causing huge problems for defences with their speed if they get some space goalside of half forward.

 

[Scham]

Based on his early form last year surely he’d just have to finish and get through pre season unscathed? I can see him and Sturt causing huge problems for defences with their speed if they get some space goalside of half forward.

Yep, very exciting if he can stay sound and continue to develop as he has been! Add Sturt as another important missing cog in our forward line and we'll look completely different in that area of the ground. I'm hoping Erasmus gets opportunities to be added in the mix with those two also. Very exciting.