List Mgmt. 2023 List Management

[HavUEvaSeenTheRain]

Just a hypothetical

Would anyone contemplate TDK for Ben Ainsworth?


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If we could bring Darcy in

 

[BlueTongue]

Real list management works different to SuperCoach list management

Yeah - No S#%! ?
With SC you can only cut 2 at a time, and I def wouldn't hang on to a player for 8 years if he's giving me nothing...

But I'd be interested to know of all the players I listed - which ones you think are long term best 22?

 

[DangerousD]

A fair bit of discussion across multiple threads, regarding talent ID, development, selection, etc

When you get a couple of kids, like Hollands and Cowan (I would have selected differently at those pick), not really getting a lot of the pill, but doing all the things required defensively and structurally, to play in their first year, it's a credit to both players

But then to suggest it's an indictment on the club, that players that have been on the list longer, that aren't getting a regular game, is truly bizarre

The game has gone past just purely winning the ball, it's more about the effectiveness of those possessions and the most critical aspect, what you do when you or your team doesn't have the pill

Most players are either unwilling or incapable of improving their deficiencies to be regular AFL players, even with the best support structures, it's no different to any other organisation or industry

I have been regularly complaining that Dow continues to be overlooked and have similar views on Kemp, my main gripe though is that these guys aren’t getting any games, even as injury over or the sub, so neither will have any value come seasons end.

I see a big player exodus at the end of the season but it will be disappointing as I don’t see any value being gained by Kemp, Dow. Busting with multiple first round picks hurts for years, getting sweet FA when they leave makes things worse.

 

[BlueTongue]

Probably a little aggressive for me.

There’s some obvious OOC players who can’t stay on the park, if that doesn’t change over the rest of the season then it’s papers stamped.

I reckon Ed hangs them up at the end of the year.

I wouldn’t have Kemp in the 2nd list, at least not yet.

Fisher would likely need to request a trade back to Perth for that to happen, which likely means he’s got a better offer (and has value) or isn’t getting games with us (which means less trade value).

I also can’t see us delisting any contracted players and paying them out.

The big problem with your strategy of trading/delisting a bare minimum of 10 players is we then have to replace those list spots. We’re not getting a bucket load of good picks back, so we end up with a few decent draftees, then end up looking at the very late picks, a small free agent pool, delisted free agents and rookies. Which is bleak.

I'm not suggesting we cut them all - more an exercise at listing who I think def needs to go at the end of the year.
Having said that, I think we could turn over 6 of the 10 in the bottom list.

 

[Arr0w]

I have been regularly complaining that Dow continues to be overlooked and have similar views on Kemp, my main gripe though is that these guys aren’t getting any games, even as injury over or the sub, so neither will have any value come seasons end.

I see a big player exodus at the end of the season but it will be disappointing as I don’t see any value being gained by Kemp, Dow. Busting with multiple first round picks hurts for years, getting sweet FA when they leave makes things worse.

You know the reasons why, until it changes, it won't change

Kemp is building, but needs to get his head on a swivel more to impact the play, rather than just his opponent

Dow continues to get the pill, but jogs defensively, Binns and Cincotta have better workrate and team ethos

Even a limited Fog is disciplined

 

[Jimmae]

Makes us less capable in three positions?

Jack plays forward to a handy level and below average everywhere else. A major problem is we can’t cover the ground well enough as a side and Jack is part of that problem. Cottrell helps massively in that area and as long as JSOS isn’t hitting the scoreboard or being a meaningful link between forward and defence then I think we will favour runners over him.

Jack's forward pressure stats are as good as any of the small forwards, just lacking that elite acceleration, but plays off his opponent well and can get to a high top speed. Excellent endurance base too.

He's not a problem for our forward line, he's in the same spot as McKay: picking up the slack for others.

 

[BrisbaneCFC]

Just a hypothetical

Would anyone contemplate TDK for Ben Ainsworth?


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Nope. TDK should move to CHB.

 

[HavUEvaSeenTheRain]

Jack's forward pressure stats are as good as any of the small forwards, just lacking that elite acceleration, but plays off his opponent well and can get to a high top speed. Excellent endurance base too.

He's not a problem for our forward line, he's in the same spot as McKay: picking up the slack for others.

I find it hard to believe he is anywhere near Motlop or Durdin. Fish’s spot isn’t certain imo either because he can’t apply the pressure we need. I’m not sure what JSOS role is, if he isn’t leading up the ground and taking marks then imo he is very replaceable with a smaller running player.

 

[Arr0w]

I find it hard to believe he is anywhere near Motlop or Durdin. Fish’s spot isn’t certain imo either because he can’t apply the pressure we need. I’m not sure what JSOS role is, if he isn’t leading up the ground and taking marks then imo he is very replaceable with a smaller running player.

Mots, Durdin, Owies apply way more pressure than Jsos, Fisher is at a similar level

 

[Michael Jezz]

I am really interested to see if the club reads the writing on the wall and can make wholesale changes to the list, that delivers speed and transition.
Austin was able to tinker around the edges in his first 2 drafts.
The other question is will Sayers stay the course when we need him most or
will he take the consultant's normal route and move on once the going get's tough.
What is the make up of our leadership-froth or grunt?
We can make finals but that, is the ceiling of this list. There are tones of 2011 here, except that side down hill skied and this side can defend but is too slow and inefficient

 

[M_I_G]

If we could bring Darcy in

Came here this morning to ask what we’d need to do to get Sean Darcy.

I don’t mind TDK but I think the athletic rucks aren’t the answer, the one exception being Gawn (nic nat back in the day too).
Your tractor style rucks just get the job done: Darcy, Nank, Witts, goldy (most years), ROB. Pitto is a tractor but with freo going so poorly Darcy would be a huge upgrade

 

[CJMB]

Came here this morning to ask what we’d need to do to get Sean Darcy.

I don’t mind TDK but I think the athletic rucks aren’t the answer, the one exception being Gawn (nic nat back in the day too).
Your tractor style rucks just get the job done: Darcy, Nank, Witts, goldy (most years), ROB. Pitto is a tractor but with freo going so poorly Darcy would be a huge upgrade

English and Marshall go alright. Not sure where Grundy fits in the tractor vs athletic description but he’s got a couple of jackets

 

[Arr0w]

Chase RFA Flynn as a Pitto replacement

TDK will re-sign short term, wait and see depending development

 

[TENACIOUS]

No sure the below are anything more than good VFL players…
Dow
Fogarty
Plowman
Honey
Mirkov
Akuei

With the below heading this way…
Kemp
O’Brien

Not sure we are ever going to see the best of the below…
Philp
Cuningham
Marchbank
Martin
Williams
McGovern

 

[SkyhorseTamer]

Nope. TDK should move to CHB.

Hell no. He's got less than 0 footy IQ. He'd struggle to follow his opponent let alone play in a zone. He's a ruckman or bust. Doesn't know how to create space or block in the forward line, hardly involves himself in link play and loses his opposing ruck immediately after every contest.

O'Brien had nearly 20 possies against him on the weekend. TDK has a hell of a long way to go and probably should be working on it in the vfl but we have no one else with pitto injured.

 

[TENACIOUS]

Hell no. He's got less than 0 footy IQ. He'd struggle to follow his opponent let alone play in a zone. He's a ruckman or bust. Doesn't know how to create space or block in the forward line, hardly involves himself in link play and loses his opposing ruck immediately after every contest.

O'Brien had nearly 20 possies against him on the weekend. TDK has a hell of a long way to go and probably should be working on it in the vfl but we have no one else with pitto injured.

Trade him for Heeney

 

[The Return of the Paf]

We don't need players with speed, we need 'elite' players with speed, or at least players who can come into a system which can exploit their particular strengths to an elite level. We don't want 'more of the same only quicker', it becomes a bit like repeating the same mistakes only with a different spin. I don't want to hear the phrase "perfect for our needs" one more time because it's almost always bogus.

 

[BrisbaneCFC]

Hell no. He's got less than 0 footy IQ. He'd struggle to follow his opponent let alone play in a zone. He's a ruckman or bust. Doesn't know how to create space or block in the forward line, hardly involves himself in link play and loses his opposing ruck immediately after every contest.

O'Brien had nearly 20 possies against him on the weekend. TDK has a hell of a long way to go and probably should be working on it in the vfl but we have no one else with pitto injured.

If we can teach Liam Jones to become an average defender, we can do it for TDK. Not a good Ruckman, will never be a good one. Will never be a number 1 ruck. Not a good forward either.

 

[Arr0w]

We don't need players with speed, we need 'elite' players with speed, or at least players who can come into a system which can exploit their particular strengths to an elite level. We don't want 'more of the same only quicker', it becomes a bit like repeating the same mistakes only with a different spin. I don't want to hear the phrase "perfect for our needs" one more time because it's almost always bogus.

Which quick players have we recruited in the last 5 years, that weren't injury prone prior?

 

[dylan_mike1]

Honestly, why are we bothering with these players?

Plowman
Honey
Mirkov
Akuei
O’Brien
Fogarty
Ed Curnow- a bit unfair, but we need to move on from these types.

I'm still unsure about:

Dow: .I would like him to have a proper go in the seniors
Kemp:I would like him to have a proper go in the seniors
Fish: Has good games but super inconsistent , a bit slow, and a bit weak for my liking.
Owies: tries his heart out, but lacks class. probably a keeper, but should be competing for his spot.

All bar philp are best 22, and some on good coin. We seriously have to get them on lower coin or moved on. We can't keep carrying perenially injured players.

Philp
Cuningham
Marchbank
Martin
Williams
McGovern

Personally, I would consider trading any of our players , bar Charlie and Sam.

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[CJMB]

Personally, I would also put everyone up for trade bar Charlie and Sam.

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Haha F*** that is a melt… if you’re putting 43 guys up for trade you might as well fold the club

 

[dylan_mike1]

Haha F*** that is a melt… if you’re putting 43 guys up for trade you might as well fold the club

...ha ha. I didn't mean all at once, I just meant , no one is untouchable, except for charlie and sam.

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[WalshistheGOAT]

Put the whole list up for trade even though we're probably only 3-4 good role players away from contending. I LIKE IT!

 

[Michael Jezz]

Chase RFA Flynn as a Pitto replacement

TDK will re-sign short term, wait and see depending development

If Austin has an outside mid or high half fwd marked with the pick(s) received for TDK, he should be traded. Agressive list management required.

 

[Arr0w]

If Austin has an outside mid or high half fwd marked with the pick(s) received for TDK, he should be traded. Agressive list management required.

There is aggressive and then overreacting

Pitto out of contract, worth little, Flynn is a free hit RFA.

TDK OOC, reduces our leverage and has more upside than Pitto who has reached his ceiling

Trading is more about timing