List Mgmt. 2023 List Management

[Blue__Balls]

Not me, I'd rather keep Dow than trade for Hollands unless we get a decent pick for the former and pay pittance for the latter.

That's great, but if Dow wants to leave then we may not have that option.

 

[macky99]

Most of the 30s are still second round, a pick in the 30s is a good deal I think

Based on North 's provisional picks they have pick 39 which would be about Fisher's value based on the fact he is under contract and North reportedly have offered him a attractive deal, certainly don't see Hollands worth more than that.

We would have to be confident Hollands has real upside coming to us rather than going to the draft and backing our recruiting team to find a good player at that selection.

 

[Revenant1995]

Genuine question...
There are swings and roundabouts, so what if Dow and Fisher essentially net us Hollands, a pick in the 30s, and a little extra salary cap room (via Dow's and Fisher's contracts off the books, and Hollands on a lesser salary) - would that be essentially 'fair value'?

 

[The Return of the Paf]

That's great, but if Dow wants to leave then we may not have that option.

I don't know how great it was but it was an opinion, not an instruction.

 

[Stamos]

Hope we are not making a mistake by unloading some pace with Dow and Fisher going. The season is a marathon, you won't make it to the end playing slow bash and crash physical footy. Easy wins where you run rings around teams as we did in our streak means we get home playing a less physically taxing game. I'm not sure we haven't made mistakes with team selection by leaving quicker ball carrying players like Dow and Fisher out.

I really hope Voss does not become this generation's Ross Lyon. Become obsessed about defence, physicality, big bodies etc and take away too much run and carray and offence. This is what I have seen in our first two finals. Which we won more on luck than out playing the opposition.

I think we have the players to become on of the best offensive teams in the game, we have shown in our selection that we are gearing towards defensiveness. Hope we aren't making a mistake.

Would prefer to keep Dow and Fisher. Experiment a little with pace and rebound over height and size. Experiment a little with Dow in the side with Walsh, Cerra, Cripps and Hewett/Kennedy.

I just hope we don't become too focused on contested ball and big bodies and neglect run, creativity and attack because this is what I have seen this finals series and haven't liked it. Maybe it beats Brisbane. But we were damn lucky we beat Sydney and Melbourne with a huge lack of run and carry. The kind of run and carry that beat top 4 sides in the h&a season and turned our season around and got us into finals.

Just got a lot of doubts that losing Dow and Fisher is a good thing. Even about having them out of the 23 in finals.

Firstly, it's hard to hang onto fringe players who get offered bigger contracts and guaranteed game time at other clubs. The salary cap ensures this.

Secondly, I think it's pretty tough to argue that we're losing run by letting Dow and Fisher go. They're hardly Walsh/Cottrell/Hollands/Acres types.

I would definitely prefer to keep Dow, he is valuable depth. But that's just not how the system works. Hopefully we get good value for him, and Fish.

 

[WalshistheGOAT]

Hope we are not making a mistake by unloading some pace with Dow and Fisher going. The season is a marathon, you won't make it to the end playing slow bash and crash physical footy. Easy wins where you run rings around teams as we did in our streak means we get home playing a less physically taxing game. I'm not sure we haven't made mistakes with team selection by leaving quicker ball carrying players like Dow and Fisher out.

I really hope Voss does not become this generation's Ross Lyon. Become obsessed about defence, physicality, big bodies etc and take away too much run and carray and offence. This is what I have seen in our first two finals. Which we won more on luck than out playing the opposition.

I think we have the players to become on of the best offensive teams in the game, we have shown in our selection that we are gearing towards defensiveness. Hope we aren't making a mistake.

Would prefer to keep Dow and Fisher. Experiment a little with pace and rebound over height and size. Experiment a little with Dow in the side with Walsh, Cerra, Cripps and Hewett/Kennedy.

I just hope we don't become too focused on contested ball and big bodies and neglect run, creativity and attack because this is what I have seen this finals series and haven't liked it. Maybe it beats Brisbane. But we were damn lucky we beat Sydney and Melbourne with a huge lack of run and carry. The kind of run and carry that beat top 4 sides in the h&a season and turned our season around and got us into finals.

Just got a lot of doubts that losing Dow and Fisher is a good thing. Even about having them out of the 23 in finals.

I'd say its more to do with us not having enough outside runners who can defend adequately and deliver by foot. Any players we have who can do all 3 seem to play nearly every game for us.

Fisher and Dow are both poor defensively and have issues with their running capacity, I'm sure if someone like Max Holmes became available we'd jump at the opportunity to add more outside run and class to our 22.

 

[branedotorg]

Not me, I'd rather keep Dow than trade for Hollands unless we get a decent pick for the former and pay pittance for the latter.

that assumes Dow is keen to stay, suspect he's been sold an opportunity to be starting mid at the saints and needs a restart on his career.

 

[ItsAllAboutMe]

Ben McKay

32

Ben Mckay

Age

27

Ht

202cm

Wt

104kg

Pos.

Def

Career

Season

Last 5

D

7.5

2star

K

3.7

1star

HB

3.8

3star

M

2.7

3star

T

1.7

4star

MG

77.2

1star

D

7.5

2star

K

4.5

2star

HB

3.0

2star

M

2.5

3star

T

1.5

2star

MG

88.5

2star

D

7.0

2star

K

3.4

2star

HB

3.6

3star

M

2.4

3star

T

2.0

4star

MG

67.8

1star

has said that he wants to stay in Vic, Hawks and Bombers are the current reported suitors, neither of them are likely to play finals in the next 3 years and I just wonder if perhaps seeing his brother play big finals might make him want to pull on the Navy.

 

[Arr0w]

Can't hang into decent depth, especially if they want more opportunities offered by other clubs

You just strike the best deal possible and or trade them for players that suit our needs

Dow and Fisher are behind the pecking order for the positions they play, it's part of list management each and every year

 

[WyntersGame_]

At the start of the year I thought Dow was unfulfilled talent who would be delisted at the end of the year. Everything externally made it appear he wasn't thought highly of by coaching staff.

Fisher I wanted to be the player I really loved in his first 2 -3 years who gave me a level of excitement when he played.

Now... I think Dow is an important part of our future if he continues his growth from this year. Cripps body can probably only take 3-4 more years which puts Dow in his peak years and a great replacement option.

If we can keep him I'd be very happy and hoping that he can get more games next year. But I suspect with his skill set and now proving to the AFL community he is a AFL player, he will go for more guaranteed game time which is unfortunate.

Fish unfortunately has shown his best form as a Half Back but we are overloaded in options here and he is just too slight for the midfield and sells himself into trouble when under pressure

As sad as it would be to see him go because I really did like him as a player when he first started with us, I'd be fine with him leaving assuming we get a decent offer.

 

[Michael Jezz]

Hope we are not making a mistake by unloading some pace with Dow and Fisher going. The season is a marathon, you won't make it to the end playing slow bash and crash physical footy. Easy wins where you run rings around teams as we did in our streak means we get home playing a less physically taxing game. I'm not sure we haven't made mistakes with team selection by leaving quicker ball carrying players like Dow and Fisher out.

I really hope Voss does not become this generation's Ross Lyon. Become obsessed about defence, physicality, big bodies etc and take away too much run and carray and offence. This is what I have seen in our first two finals. Which we won more on luck than out playing the opposition.

I think we have the players to become on of the best offensive teams in the game, we have shown in our selection that we are gearing towards defensiveness. Hope we aren't making a mistake.

Would prefer to keep Dow and Fisher. Experiment a little with pace and rebound over height and size. Experiment a little with Dow in the side with Walsh, Cerra, Cripps and Hewett/Kennedy.

I just hope we don't become too focused on contested ball and big bodies and neglect run, creativity and attack because this is what I have seen this finals series and haven't liked it. Maybe it beats Brisbane. But we were damn lucky we beat Sydney and Melbourne with a huge lack of run and carry. The kind of run and carry that beat top 4 sides in the h&a season and turned our season around and got us into finals.

Just got a lot of doubts that losing Dow and Fisher is a good thing. Even about having them out of the 23 in finals.

We are not unloading them. They want to leave for more senior opportunity and probably more cash and a longer contract, neither of which we can afford

 

[BlueJet]

Not sure that I'd consider Fisher to be fast & it seems it's him looking to leave to gain more midfield minutes in any event.
Churning our depth allows the club picks to replenish with & ensures that they'll have players on base/rookie contracts, helping to navigate cap headaches.

 

[Blue__Balls]

I don't know how great it was but it was an opinion, not an instruction.

By all reports it's an opinion the club shares, I'm just flagging that it seems like the matter is out of our hands. Club has offered Dow a few years, clearly see him as having something to offer, even if it's only for 10-12 games a year, but he's gonna chase a regular game (as you'd expect).

 

[Blue__Balls]

Genuine question...
There are swings and roundabouts, so what if Dow and Fisher essentially net us Hollands, a pick in the 30s, and a little extra salary cap room (via Dow's and Fisher's contracts off the books, and Hollands on a lesser salary) - would that be essentially 'fair value'?

After last weekend's results, we now find ourselves in the position of holding Pick 16, while NM hold Pick 14.

Wonder if the basis of a trade for Fisher might be able to involve a swap of those two picks. Gets our first pick ahead of GWS and NM at 14 and 15 currently.

Take it a step further, could we do the NM deal, then shop 14 and Dow to St Kilda for Pick 12.

Looks like we may retain a few we assumed would leave, and we're already above our list capacity due to SSP picks and the Irish recruits. Getting late picks for Dow and Fisher may be less advantageous than moving our first up the board.

16, Dow and Fisher for 12 and cap space. Not great, but maybe more appropriate for our list strategy than Dow for 51 and Fisher for 39.

 

[ItsAllAboutMe]

We are not unloading them. They want to leave for more senior opportunity and probably more cash and a longer contract, neither of which we can afford

Correct, we could t sign them all and became a choice of who to keep out of TDK, JSOS, Fog & Dow. Dow is probably quite similar to when we signed Fogarty from Geelong, had multiple clubs interested in signing Fog on a multi year deal but Geelong had other priorities trying to win a flag..

Dow will have up to 5 clubs, most who will be clubs outside of the top 8 who will give him 2-3years on $4-500k, we are never going to put up something that could come close to matching those, our offer would be 1 year at $300k, it’s not a hard choice for Paddy then, especially seeing himself out of the finals teams.

 

[AndyLucimitis]

Not to do with our list but sad to see Sam Petrevski-Seton

10

Sam Petrevski-seton

Age

27

Ht

182cm

Wt

81kg

Pos.

Fwd

Career

Season

Last 5

D

16.2

4star

K

9.7

4star

HB

6.6

4star

M

3.6

4star

T

4.2

5star

G

0.3

3star

D

14.4

3star

K

9.5

4star

HB

4.9

3star

M

3.1

3star

T

2.0

3star

G

0.0

1star

D

13.4

4star

K

10.0

4star

HB

3.4

3star

M

2.8

3star

T

5.0

5star

G

0.4

3star

delisted at West Coast.

Not sure if he gets picked up as a rookie ??

 

[BlueJet]

Not to do with our list but sad to see Sam Petrevski-Seton delisted at West Coast.

Not sure if he gets picked up as a rookie ??

Unlikely, he didn't live up to the hype with us & has now been given the flick by WC who would be able to provide more opportunity than most sides given they're rebuilding.

 

[branedotorg]

Not to do with our list but sad to see Sam Petrevski-Seton delisted at West Coast.

Not sure if he gets picked up as a rookie ??

No chance, he's been barely serviceable in a historically bad team, has never been able to turn his potential into consistent performance.

We'll always have the dogs and pies games where he was unplayable but only those two games over a career.

 

[DangerousD]

Can't hang into decent depth, especially if they want more opportunities offered by other clubs

You just strike the best deal possible and or trade them for players that suit our needs

Dow and Fisher are behind the pecking order for the positions they play, it's part of list management each and every year

Geelong constantly added older players for depth, same as Brisbane.

Is it possible we do the same and with who?

 

[DangerousD]

After last weekend's results, we now find ourselves in the position of holding Pick 16, while NM hold Pick 14.

Wonder if the basis of a trade for Fisher might be able to involve a swap of those two picks. Gets our first pick ahead of GWS and NM at 14 and 15 currently.

Take it a step further, could we do the NM deal, then shop 14 and Dow to St Kilda for Pick 12.

Looks like we may retain a few we assumed would leave, and we're already above our list capacity due to SSP picks and the Irish recruits. Getting late picks for Dow and Fisher may be less advantageous than moving our first up the board.

16, Dow and Fisher for 12 and cap space. Not great, but maybe more appropriate for our list strategy than Dow for 51 and Fisher for 39.

Depends on where you rate Fish and Dow, for arguments sake we get 39 and 40 for the two of them, those two picks are the equivalent of pick 22.

We wouldn’t get 22 but maybe we aim for 28.

What would be better? 16 and 28 or 12?

Without thinking of how, I just see no way we only take one kid in the draft.

 

[HarryFlashman]

That's great, but if Dow wants to leave then we may not have that option.

I think that through his unwavering commitment, work & effort, he has shown he doesn’t “want to leave”.
“Has to, to get game time” would be the situation.

 

[Arr0w]

Geelong constantly added older players for depth, same as Brisbane.

Is it possible we do the same and with who?

We might top up with experience, especially players that become UFAs or delisted players and can sniff a possible flag

Would have to have look

 

[Stamos]

We might top up with experience, especially players that become UFAs or delisted players and can sniff a possible flag

Would have to have look

It's a bit difficult that for our 2 biggest areas of need, especially in terms of experience, KPD will be in high demand, so likely anyone any good will get bigger offers than what we can afford, and more likely game time.
And then decent half forwards don't get cut very often.

 

[Arr0w]

It's a bit difficult that for our 2 biggest areas of need, especially in terms of experience, KPD will be in high demand, so likely anyone any good will get bigger offers than what we can afford, and more likely game time.
And then decent half forwards don't get cut very often.

Players have versatility, so depends what we want and what's available

We have basic cover for KPD, so likely we draft one

HF completely different story, a number of options, even with younger players not getting a look in with some finals sides

 

[BlueTongue]

It's a bit difficult that for our 2 biggest areas of need, especially in terms of experience, KPD will be in high demand, so likely anyone any good will get bigger offers than what we can afford, and more likely game time.
And then decent half forwards don't get cut very often.

Ben McKay has said that he wants to stay in Vic, Hawks and Bombers are the current reported suitors, neither of them are likely to play finals in the next 3 years and I just wonder if perhaps seeing his brother play big finals might make him want to pull on the Navy.

Fisher & Dow for McKay? Not all that interested in E. Hollands, think we got the good one...