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List Mgmt. 2023 List Management

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windows1 said:
Analysis of Pitto’s stats doesn’t look good at all this season. Not finding the ball. Not a single mark on a lead. 2 marks inside 50. Shithouse kicking efficiency.

Is a better tap ruckman than TDK but nowhere near it as soon as it hits the ground and everywhere afterwards. There’s no spot in the forward line for TDK really unless one of Cc or McKay is injured.

Huge off-season ahead for TDK I hope.
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Yep.

Going to sound like a broken record but TDK needs to become "the man".

Hopefully one more preseason is enough.

TDK just brings so much energy. Had qtrs this year in the ruck where he was Kruzer like tractoring the ball forward.

Pitto is an okay tap ruck. But offers litterally nothing else.

Someone that big should be marking way more.

Doesn't have the mind for positioning. He should be waiting a kick behind the ball and intercepting.

The amount of times I've seen him flat footed amd opposition players run around him like a witches hat...

TDK. The answer. Give him the mantle. Let him do the rest.

TDK + Jsos is our most effective ruck set up.
 
Id love to see us go to the Suns and tell them we will take Chol and E Hollands off their hands along with pick 4.

Hollands would be a great pick up and Chol would be a very handy addition who can pinch hit in the ruck.

Also, I'm not the biggest Gresham fan but think he would improve our forward line and bring 25+ goals next year.

B: Saad Weitering Newman
HB: Docherty McGovern Boyd
C: Acres Cripps OHollands
HF: Martin Harry Gresham
F: Motlop Charlie Chol
R: Tdk Walsh Cerra
Int: EHollands Cottrell Williams CDurdin
Sub: Hewett

Others: Marchbank, Cincotta, Binns, Fogarty, Kennedy, Owies, Kemp, JSOS, Cuningham, Pittonet, Cowan etc

Just think by adding those 3 players gives us more run, more scoreboard pressure and flexibility. Also our depth becomes extremely strong and the fight for best 22 would be red hot.

Then take Watson/Duursma at pick 4 then Charlie Edwards with our 1st (approx pick 22).

Ideally we pick up a key back with a Rookie pick, maybe a mature ager from a state league also to sure up our key backs also.

Just my early thoughts
 
HereComesJuddy said:
Id love to see us go to the Suns and tell them we will take Chol and E Hollands off their hands along with pick 4.

Hollands would be a great pick up and Chol would be a very handy addition who can pinch hit in the ruck.

Also, I'm not the biggest Gresham fan but think he would improve our forward line and bring 25+ goals next year.

B: Saad Weitering Newman
HB: Docherty McGovern Boyd
C: Acres Cripps OHollands
HF: Martin Harry Gresham
F: Motlop Charlie Chol
R: Tdk Walsh Cerra
Int: EHollands Cottrell Williams CDurdin
Sub: Hewett

Others: Marchbank, Cincotta, Binns, Fogarty, Kennedy, Owies, Kemp, JSOS, Cuningham, Pittonet, Cowan etc

Just think by adding those 3 players gives us more run, more scoreboard pressure and flexibility. Also our depth becomes extremely strong and the fight for best 22 would be red hot.

Then take Watson/Duursma at pick 4 then Charlie Edwards with our 1st (approx pick 22).

Ideally we pick up a key back with a Rookie pick, maybe a mature ager from a state league also to sure up our key backs also.

Just my early thoughts
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So what are we giving the Suns for 2 players & pick 4?
 

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TimeFor17 said:
We need one to have electric pace and agility like a charlie Cameron or Shiai Bolton type. Don’t think Durds has that pace. Owies has smarts but not the pace and not enough pressure.
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This for me. As much as I liked his efforts Fogarty is the obvious replacement in our side to get better. He tackles but not much more then. Would love an electric pace guy who does that and kicks the occasional goal. Toby Bedford style would be sufficient in my mind
 
Definitely TDK needs to continue to develop and be the solo ruck

He’s tracking 12-24mths behind English, but on the same development trajectory IMO
 
Soapy V said:
My delistings/trades

Ed Curnow (ret)
Plowman
Philp
Honey
Marchbank
Dow (Trade)
Fisher (Trade)

Unless we can get a genuine KPD I’d keep S.Durdin. We need a KPD to back up Weitering. If he can stay fit and he’s only 27
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Marchbank, plays in our most important game of the year.... he aint going anywhere
 
Beyond Blue said:
A little bit of an exaggeration - Dow only played ok against St Kilda and Melbourne - he didn’t get coaches votes or any media votes for those games. Meanwhile Cerra, who will likely win our B&F, was universally recognised as one of our best in the elimination final win. I’ll take Cerra’s output over Dow every day of the week thanks.



Yes Brisbane and GWS scored freely against the 2 worst finals teams (Port and Saints) but when pitted against a proper team on Friday night GWS couldn’t score and ironically they would have won had they scored what we did last night. Collingwood have scored less than 10 goals in both their finals. They won both games because of their efforts in the contest not their leg speed IMO. Finals become grinds so strong contested footy is more critical than outside leg speed IMO.



Williams will be back next season so he is a significant upgrade on Fisher as a running half back and effectively takes his spot on the list so we can afford to lose Fisher as we don’t need that many running half backs on the list.

Dow is capable but he is behind other to be a best 22 mid and cannot play another role so we will lose him to another club where he can be a starting mid. Elijah Hollands could be an upgrade replacement as he can also play forward.
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Do we not want depth?
 
Bell Ringer said:
"bit of a flog" is a massive understatement.

Bloke is genuine *head.

Could easily be out of the league within a few years despite his prodigious talent.

No thanks.
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HMM the same was being said about DeGoey and others. Unless you really know first hand that anyone is unredeemable, then you are just repeating scuttlebut.
 
therubbernub said:
Marchbank, plays in our most important game of the year.... he aint going anywhere
Click to expand...

Yep, he was also probably in our best 5 against the Lions. He’s an integral part of the team. We will offer a one year deal and he will either accept that or get a better deal and move for longer term security. But the delisting talk is absolute madness.
 
Going off Cooks comments re taking 1 or 2 players via trade/FA and hitting the draft I'd hope we end up with something like

Elijah Hollands - 2024 F2
James Jordan - FA

James Leake - Pick 16
Lance Collard - Pick 25 -
Arie Schoenmaker - Pick 30

Not sure how we'd get it all done but a Future 2nd for Fisher or Dow leaves us the option of splitting our 2024 First into 2 mid twenties picks this year which could be more attractive. Don't think theres a huge difference from about 15-35 in this draft with the top 8-10 clear standouts and a group of 4-5 the next wrung down.
 

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therubbernub said:
HMM the same was being said about DeGoey and others. Unless you really know first hand that anyone is unredeemable, then you are just repeating scuttlebut.
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Police don’t usually charge people for scuttlebutt.
This isn’t a kid making a 1 off mistake.
It’s all well documented.
 
Kreuuuzeurns said:
I think Gresham is still hanging out for us, but the move will be on our terms if it does eventuate. He probably thought he’d have more suitors at this point but he did himself no favours during the season.

Moving from StKilda to Essendon at this point in his career seems like a shocking move.

Harmes and Hollands would be great additions. Williams effectively a new recruit, that is plenty of change in an offseason for where the list is at.
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I know that the Greshams are Blues fans and his younger brother is in our NGA academy, I think he wants to play at the Blues, but our offer isn’t close to others, which is why the Bombers are leasing.

I also think he’s hoping we up our offer
 
kreuze_missile said:
We're a 30+ goal per season small/mid forward short of a premership.

Unfortunately these guys don't grow on trees.

I don't think a single player who kicked 30+ in 2022 is any chance of being at Carlton in 2024.

Tom Papley.. if only... :'(
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think the solution is largely internal.

Jack Martin staying fit, growth from Motlop and Durdin.
 
Magruder said:
think the solution is largely internal.

Jack Martin staying fit, growth from Motlop and Durdin.
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At this point in his career Martin playing 22 games feels like wishful thinking. But he's probably good for 30 if he can.

Motlop kicked 24 in 21 games this year. Reasonable to expect he'll be beter again in 2024. That's fair to put him on the list.

Owies did kick 27 this year from 18 games + plenty of goal assists. Was stiff to get dropped in the prelim. Likely reached his potential but probably gets 30 this year if he doesn't do his hammy. Reasonable to expect him to do it again.

SOS 14 from 16. Relying on Pittonet being dropped to play in 2024. I don't see him playing any regular footy in 2024.

Fogarty just 4 goals in 12 games. Can't make a career out of tackling. I don't think he plays in 2024 unless he starts kicking goals.

Durdin 11 from 11. Too far down the pecking order to get games in 2024.


I still think we're one medium sized forward short. Martin does play tall though so maybe we're good...? 🤷‍♂️
 

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kreuze_missile said:
At this point in his career Martin playing 22 games feels like wishful thinking. But he's probably good for 30 if he can.

Motlop kicked 24 in 21 games this year. Reasonable to expect he'll be beter again in 2024. That's fair to put him on the list.

Owies did kick 27 this year from 18 games + plenty of goal assists. Was stiff to get dropped in the prelim. Likely reached his potential but probably gets 30 this year if he doesn't do his hammy. Reasonable to expect him to do it again.

SOS 14 from 16. Relying on Pittonet being dropped to play in 2024. I don't see him playing any regular footy in 2024.

Fogarty just 4 goals in 12 games. Can't make a career out of tackling. I don't think he plays in 2024 unless he starts kicking goals.

Durdin 11 from 11. Too far down the pecking order to get games in 2024.


I still think we're one medium sized forward short. Martin does play tall though so maybe we're good...? 🤷‍♂️
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Durdin's ceiling is pretty high.

His first 8 games this year he kicked 10 goals as small being forced to push up the flanks, hardly conducive to being in position to hit the score board.

Even so, extrapolate that to a full year and it's pretty close to that arbitrary 30 goal mark...

34 games in, plenty of growth expected.

Motlop is flashier with huge upside, but Durds has plenty to offer.
 
Retire:
Ed Curnow (CONFIRMED)

Delist:
Lachie Plowman
Sam Philp
Josh Honey

Trade out:
Paddy Dow (3rd Round pick)
Zac Fisher (Would rather retain, but seems likely we'll trade him for a 2nd or 3rd Round pick)

Short term extensions:
Caleb Marchbank (1 or 2 Years)
David Cuningham (1 Year)
Sam Durdin (1 Year)

Total players outgoing:
5-7 (Depending on whether or not Dow and Fish are both traded and if Sam Durdin is offered a contract)

As far as incoming players, I'm not sure what that looks like exactly. Some players I'd like to see potentially would be:
Elijah Hollands
James Jordon

One of the below:
Mabior Chol (Great 2nd ruck option - 2 Years on his contract at what you'd imagine would be average or below average)
Todd Goldstein (Does he have a current contract that we'd need to consume? 1 Year would be worthwhile, 2 would be a risk)
 
Im all for goldy for a yr or two would help us hugely and help TDK develop his ruck craft
Sorry Pittonet is vfl level at best and only used if injuries hit
 
Now that the dust has settled a little should we have another think about Gresham ?

Goes into the middle and plays the forward flank role so ticks a box as a need.

Doesn’t cost us a draft pick but would be asking for a decent salary

I think he’s an upgrade on Fog and arguably cunners (durability) and offers mid rotation where Owies doesn’t


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
therubbernub said:
Do we not want depth?
Click to expand...

Obviously I’d love to keep Fisher and Dow as depth but clearly Dow and Fisher aren’t sticking around to be depth when they can be guaranteed starters on longer term contracts and probably for more money at other clubs. They’ll get that for lesser sides like North and St Kilda (Setters the same last year going to the Bombers) but that is their choice, and our challenge to get the list balance right. As I’ve said before Im ok losing Dow and Fisher to keep the core group together.
 
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