Training 2023 Pre-season thread

[LongLion]

We went and watched from the boundary in the last quarter. Boundary umpire was lathered in sweat.

Humidity was running between 85%-90% @23 degrees. No wonder they were sweating.

 

[Grasshopper17]

Lot of positive signs last night but there was still one glaring thing that I couldn't help but notice last night. Yes, our scoring per i50% is elite, but we need to be more clinical and take advantage of our opportunities. It's happened in the past and it happened a lot last night where we tried to be too cute, tried to over handball it, and no one was willing to take responsibility and pull the trigger at a shot at goal. Just tiny things where we take our game from just being good, to a great disciplined side.

Looking very forward to this season though

McCluggage

Seriously tho, if we improve our kicking for goal, blokes will be more inclined to take those shots. The key is reducing the gap between our best and worst shots. Often it's a bit scattergun. Too often really.

It also occurred to me that the guys taking the most shots are generally the worst, when it should be the reverse. Case in point Dev's set shot last night. Never seen him take one before but there was no fuss, tight angle, no worries, just went back and nailed it.

Dunkley on the other hand... Hardly made the goal umpire move in the intra clubs and even last Friday. Last night tho he missed a shocker in the first quarter.

Which makes me wonder if we practicing properly? Or are we practicing in such a way that is creating and ingraining bad habits?

 

[ZoBlitz]

Another player injured getting tunnelled. Should 100% be a reportable offence.

Something for the extra ump to look out for.

 

[The Flying Belgian]

Loved watching Will stand up for himself in the last quarter by putting (insert name here) on his backside and teammates running in to support him. We have ourselves an absolute beauty!

Guthrie. Although You're misremembering - it was Starce (I think) who came into fly the flag. Will just gave a bit of a shove. Was amusing a couple of minutes later when there was a stacks on Guthrie in the D50.

 

[Grasshopper17]

Guthrie. Although You're misremembering - it was Starce (I think) who came into fly the flag. Will just gave a bit of a shove. Was amusing a couple of minutes later when there was a stacks on Guthrie in the D50.

I actually thought it was Dunkley who ran in and pushed Guthrie over. Well, he pushed Guthrie, who took a dive. Could be wrong tho.

But loved the way Will went back to Guthrie and let him know after the ball had left the area.

Just needs to be careful as there are trigger happy umpires who want the game to be all about them and will pay free kicks for that sort of carry on, rightly or wrongly.

 

[The Flying Belgian]

I actually thought it was Dunkley who ran in and pushed Guthrie over. Well, he pushed Guthrie, who took a dive. Could be wrong tho.

But loved the way Will went back to Guthrie and let him know after the ball had left the area.

Just needs to be careful as there are trigger happy umpires who want the game to be all about them and will pay free kicks for that sort of carry on, rightly or wrongly.

Actually, thinking back to the commentary, I think you're correct.

 

[buttermuffs]

Seems like there’s a lot of differing opinions on Rayner and McKenna. Seems be ranging from “looking great” to “looks lost”. Not bashing any of these opinions since I could definitely see both ways.

I think the biggest thing I am adjusting to is that the defence looks a lot different than last year. We had a back six over the last couple years that always had Adams Rich Gardiner Andrews and Starcevich with Coleman present for most of it as well and to see almost three players from those either injured (Gardiner, Adams) or losing some impact (Rich) makes it hard to judge.

Replacing two of our tall backs in Adams and Gardiner with Rayner and Payne is a big change which I’m not sure how it will work. While I have confidence in Payne, I don’t know how Rayner will fare considering it’s a newish position for him and is replacing the very experienced Gardiner/Adams who would be in that role otherwise.

I think it’ll take 4 to 5 games to get used to the shift in the backline.


Sent from my iPhone using BigFooty.com

 

[Nunez]

I thought Rayner played his role. Wasn't overly impressive, wasn't bad.

Still think he's absolutely going to move up the ground but given the injury to Gardiner and Joyce being anything but proven, it could end up being an unintended masterstroke having Cam feel confident of how to play a third tall defender role in our team.

 

[chopperduck]

Guthrie. Although You're misremembering - it was Starce (I think) who came into fly the flag. Will just gave a bit of a shove. Was amusing a couple of minutes later when there was a stacks on Guthrie in the D50.

For a practice game, it was noticeable. I'm sure they are just sticking up for the new kid, but there are some small signs that the players are hungry and just a little bit more confident this year.

 

[chopperduck]

Seems like there’s a lot of differing opinions on Rayner and McKenna. Seems be ranging from “looking great” to “looks lost”. Not bashing any of these opinions since I could definitely see both ways.

I think the biggest thing I am adjusting to is that the defence looks a lot different than last year. We had a back six over the last couple years that always had Adams Rich Gardiner Andrews and Starcevich with Coleman present for most of it as well and to see almost three players from those either injured (Gardiner, Adams) or losing some impact (Rich) makes it hard to judge.

Replacing two of our tall backs in Adams and Gardiner with Rayner and Payne is a big change which I’m not sure how it will work. While I have confidence in Payne, I don’t know how Rayner will fare considering it’s a newish position for him and is replacing the very experienced Gardiner/Adams who would be in that role otherwise.

I think it’ll take 4 to 5 games to get used to the shift in the backline.


Sent from my iPhone using BigFooty.com

I think the other thing is our structure is different. Hard to pin point at this time having only watched on tv and not being able to see at the ends of the ground, but the likes of Kiddy, mckenna and Rich seem further up (link players), with the more contested ball winners deeper in defense. Not sure if Rayner will last the entire year, Zorko, Berry and Diz are auto 22 players, so Rayner might end up forward again, but i think he is just playing a role in that new defensive set up. Even Harro isn't as deep as he was in previous years, to the point that he got some sneaky shots on goal last week.

Previous years we would have lines of players come up to meet the ball, now we just always seem to have some numbers back. We look like we are playing a more slingshot style, rather than pushing the numbers forward, we push them back and then use the ball quick and direct. I haven't seen a couple of games where we were able to go coast to coast so many times basically uncontested. That comes down to work rate and structure. Our forwards are pushing back pretty hard as well, but at the same time are finding a padocks of space when the ball is turned over.

 

[Mr Ripper]

Something for the extra ump to look out for.

I’ll do it for free.

 

[Nickimus Rex]

I actually thought it was Dunkley who ran in and pushed Guthrie over. Well, he pushed Guthrie, who took a dive. Could be wrong tho.

But loved the way Will went back to Guthrie and let him know after the ball had left the area.

Just needs to be careful as there are trigger happy umpires who want the game to be all about them and will pay free kicks for that sort of carry on, rightly or wrongly.

It was Dunks actually who pushed him, was pretty hillarious in the vision

 

[NotQuiteJezza]

The ruck battle is interesting. Big O was not great in the ruck but reasonable around the ground. I did feel like Fort was better in the ruck contests. I don’t know if Stanley got tired??? Both seem to be moving really well. Fort just gets more involved. It tight but for me Fort starts Rnd 1. We can’t play 2 rucks surely. Too much downside.

 

[briztoon]

Don’t have a lot to add. We were sitting in the back row of the stand, above the interchange benches.

A couple of observations.

When taking kick ins, Rich didn’t even look to his left. Often times Wilmot was in acres of space with no one within cooee, and his wing wide open in front of him.

Rich could have kicked it early to Wilmot before any Geelong players had time to close Wilmot down.


Prior was pretty vocal at directing players all night. From open play, when there was a stoppage, and from the interchange box.

He also got in the Geelong players, and has a bit of agro/mongrel. He’s come a long way from his draft year, where the “knock” on him was a lack of confidence in his own ability.


There were long stretches of the game where the wing on our side of the ground, was the fat side.

Who ever was wing there, was very disciplined in holding their width, even when the Geelong player drifted to the centre of the ground.

And often they would fold back in to the defensive 50, and help create an extra man in defence.

A lot of unrewarded running for who ever played wing.


For me, I have Prior ahead of Dev and Tunstill for one wing spot. He’s not as fast as the other two, but he has better disposal and reads the game better.

Same reason I have Wilmot ahead of McKenna as the 7th defender, on the bench.

I wish the coaches would play Dev more on ball, so we could see how he does inside.

I wouldn’t have a wing on the bench. If healthy, I’d be playing Berry and Prior as wings, with Dev and Ashcroft as the bench mids, who can play inside and provide coverage on the wings when one comes to the bench.


We can rotate a lot of players through the midfield second unit; Dev, Ashcroft, Bailey and Zorko, but we’re still pretty short through there, and it was noticeable that we lost quite a few centre bounces or stoppages purely because a loose ball went over Neale’s or Bailey’s or Ashcroft head, and a taller Geelong mid grabbed the ball out of the air and got a handball away.

 

[Brett C]

Lot of positive signs last night but there was still one glaring thing that I couldn't help but notice last night. Yes, our scoring per i50% is elite, but we need to be more clinical and take advantage of our opportunities. It's happened in the past and it happened a lot last night where we tried to be too cute, tried to over handball it, and no one was willing to take responsibility and pull the trigger at a shot at goal. Just tiny things where we take our game from just being good, to a great disciplined side.

Looking very forward to this season though

So you’re saying the team who’s been top 3 in points for each of the past 3 seasons isn’t doing a good enough job.

Interesting take

 

[Grasshopper17]

I think the other thing is our structure is different. Hard to pin point at this time having only watched on tv and not being able to see at the ends of the ground, but the likes of Kiddy, mckenna and Rich seem further up (link players), with the more contested ball winners deeper in defense. Not sure if Rayner will last the entire year, Zorko, Berry and Diz are auto 22 players, so Rayner might end up forward again, but i think he is just playing a role in that new defensive set up. Even Harro isn't as deep as he was in previous years, to the point that he got some sneaky shots on goal last week.

Previous years we would have lines of players come up to meet the ball, now we just always seem to have some numbers back. We look like we are playing a more slingshot style, rather than pushing the numbers forward, we push them back and then use the ball quick and direct. I haven't seen a couple of games where we were able to go coast to coast so many times basically uncontested. That comes down to work rate and structure. Our forwards are pushing back pretty hard as well, but at the same time are finding a padocks of space when the ball is turned over.

Yes. You've done well to spot all this and explain it from simply watching on TV. Yes at the ground our backs did all seem to be pushing further forward in attack more often than last year, with cover from our midfield. It's something I touched on a few weeks ago, without really being sure how it would manifest itself: how when we have defenders pushing forward, we need to have players dropping out of the midfield back into defence to cover for them, essentially replacing them in our defensive zone should we lose possession.

I guess one way of explaining it is that if Kiddy Coleman runs to half forward, he's not AT half forward, he IS half forward, and thus someone else needs to drop back into the space he has left and BECOME a half back until he is able to resume his normal position. In essence, we're preparing our defence while we still have the football.

The other beautiful thing is that defending like this will make the field far more open for us ahead of the ball, and actually give us greater scoring opportunities despite having less numbers up there. Which is the opposite of what we spent much of last year trying to do, when we would deliberately slow our ball movement, then try and heavily populate our forward line in an attempt to lock the ball inside 50. Often though we would cut off our own nose to spite our face, as our forward line became too congested for us to be able to get shots at goal.

The ruck battle is interesting. Big O was not great in the ruck but reasonable around the ground. I did feel like Fort was better in the ruck contests. I don’t know if Stanley got tired??? Both seem to be moving really well. Fort just gets more involved. It tight but for me Fort starts Rnd 1. We can’t play 2 rucks surely. Too much downside.

Yeah the other thing about Fort is his kicking for goal is exceptional, and universes ahead of Oscar's. I love Oscar but for mine this needs to be a big consideration with respect to who we pick and how often.

 

[lionshine]

I'd like to see Prior named for Round 1 based off last night.

 

[NotQuiteJezza]

My Rnd 1 team if fit
B: Rayner/ Andrews / Starcevich
HB: Coleman / Payne/ Zorko
F: Tunstill / Neale / Berry
HF: McCarthy / Daniher / Bailey
F: Cameron / Hipwood / Gunston
Fol: Fort / Dunkley / Ashcroft
Int: Robertson / Gardiner / Prior / Madden / Wilmott

 

[mattsmob]

My Rnd 1 team if fit
B: Rayner/ Andrews / Starcevich
HB: Coleman / Payne/ Zorko
F: Tunstill / Neale / Berry
HF: McCarthy / Daniher / Bailey
F: Cameron / Hipwood / Gunston
Fol: Fort / Dunkley / Ashcroft
Int: Robertson / Gardiner / Prior / Madden / Wilmott

Left Hughie out of that one

 

[western royboy]

I know I always see the evil done to us but almost never that done to the other side and am stunned at how often both sides feel like the other side brought their own umpires.

I know it wasn't just me when the game day/review threads start getting more posters from other teams than ours and all of them refer to us being robbed/crucified etc (or when our posters who normally defend the umpires start commenting ... eg if western royboy started complaining about the umpiring being biased/criminal etc I would pay attention!)

I had a session with some AFL listed umps a few weeks ago - always interesting - the reason they have gone to a “four“ is different to what I had thought - watch out for frees pad for blocks or holds way off the ball. In any case I’d like to think I’m relatively impartial but I’m not afraid to call out poor decisions. I got the vibe that our onfield leaders were a bit over the top and from a purely personal point of view it is only natural to get a bit savage if someone is in your grill. The AFL umps have been instructed to have as minimal involvement with players as possible. That is a different approach to me, but I’m just a community ump where communication and rapport with players is vital

 

[Grasshopper17]

I had a session with some AFL listed umps a few weeks ago - always interesting - the reason they have gone to a “four“ is different to what I had thought - watch out for frees pad for blocks or holds way off the ball. In any case I’d like to think I’m relatively impartial but I’m not afraid to call out poor decisions. I got the vibe that our onfield leaders were a bit over the top and from a purely personal point of view it is only natural to get a bit savage if someone is in your grill. The AFL umps have been instructed to have as minimal involvement with players as possible. That is a different approach to me, but I’m just a community ump where communication and rapport with players is vital

Have you found the way you are treated in games has changed in the last 12 months due to the crackdown on player behaviour?

 

[western royboy]

Have you found the way you are treated in games has changed in the last 12 months due to the crackdown on player behaviour?

I haven’t had a problem for quite awhile - it’s about mutual respect - the two leagues i umpire in a very good about respect towards umps - but as I suggested it’s importanT to have that rapport with players and mutual respect

 

[KissKiss]

I've personally always preferred the umpires to be minimal and more formal with players at the top level - I hate hearing them use nicknames and stuff. Want them to be more professional. But I can understand it can be different at the local level

 

[KissKiss]

I get it with Coleman but he's barely played a handful of games in his now preferred position and let's see him put a body of work together for a whole season before we start talking about AA's.

Not there yet.

I reckon he still needs a little bit more fitness (fingers crossed he's there this year) but he would get pretty tired at the end of games last year. I reckon that last bit of fitness is all thats holding him back from the best couple in the comp

 

[Cubs2Lions]

I get that QLD is unique to GC & Lions being close to a border unllke other states, but Joe would therefore be pretty much the only player in the league living in a different state to his cub LOL - that seems so Joe. Ive not spoken or heard him speak apart from Lions vids but he comes across as a dofferent sort of cat. You'd think he'll start getting different flights for interstate games too and fly in out of GC then.

The other way around that is he has a place to stay in Brisbane during the regular season and preseason and then lives in Northern NSW during his off season break and when he retires as well, but very interesting by Joey and his family to find a place to live in although don’t some of his family live in NSW, so it kinda makes sense