Autopsy 2023 Rd 8 Mediocre Blues gone after Quarter time

[TheReal99prelim]

I’ve come to the sad realisation….

It’s not the coach’s ….

A good few of our important players crack under pressure…

Weits and H are big concerns

Cripps is a beast but not a thinker…just doesn’t know what to do in clutch situations

Cripps is selfish. Ive said it for years. Does not believe in sacrificing his game to develop others

 

[AndyLucimitis]

With those orange socks, the loss comes down to three words: WOKE MIND VIRUS

(sorry I got kicked in the head by a horse just before I posted this)

Grow up Piers


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

 

[Wickzki]

I still don't understand how it's a coach's fault when players can tackle or can't hit a target or don't do a second effort. That's the psychology of our group, it's all above the shoulders.

I've defended Voss and will continue to do so for most accusations thrown his way.

However, as many of the greatest coaches of modern sports (the major sports in the US and global professional Football) agree on throughout their autobiographies the most important aspect of a coach/manager in the modern game is to drive the players from a psychological and motivation perspective.

Voss is now the third (in a few cases forth) head coach that has struggled mightily with getting this group to play at an acceptable level of want.

They lack hunger and drive for the competition. They are mentally weak and fragile. Their efforts are not up to the standard required nearly often enough.

I've learned enough about sports throughout my life that you either have it or you don't. It starts with your on field leadership group setting the acceptable standards and communicating that to the other players on the team. This is what separates blokes like Joel Selwood from the rest.

Cripps is great when his actions are that example. Docherty is the gutsiest bloke in the competition. Even so we lack the general, the campaigner that will shoulder the on field responsibility of uniting these players who is essentially an extension of the coach.

Until we get one or until someone stands up and takes on that role we will continue to tread water.

This team needs a leader or leaders who believes in Voss enough to pull this team into line to execute his vision. Bolts, Teague and now Voss haven't had that.

Last night Brisbane had that in numbers. They won last night because of Faganism. It's more than a media term

 

[Accidental genius]

We don’t have the skill or pace to play like Collingwood. Saw it countless times last night one of our guys would try the quick slick handball and totally butcher it. Same with the kicking…just a complete lack of precision.

If we tried to play like Collingwood we’d get slaughtered.

You’ve highlighted the root cause of our problem atm.

I can now understand why our coaches try to play a more slower pace game. Playing quickly messes with our players minds….they just don’t have the awareness or footy IQ to make the right decisions often enough. Against lesser sides like wce we can do it but against quality oppo our standard falls short

We are a mid table team.

Need to keep turning over list.

 

[Bluey19]

Voss is a shocking coach, learnt nothing in his apprenticeship with Ken Hinkley.

In saying that, our list has so many b graders who are pathetic afl footballers.

Honey, Curnow would not get a game in every other afl team. I am embarrassed to think they are getting a game.

Silvagni, Newman and others are lucky to get a game elsewhere.

Nothing coming through the 2s either except maybe Binns.

Depressing time to be a blue fan.

 

[TheReal99prelim]

Incredible insight

Why say it in 100 words when it was said in 4 words???
Maybe if Carlton got the ball down to the fwd line in 4 plays rather than 100, we wouldn't have this situation

 

[athensblue]

Carlton have lost 16 of the past 17 games where crowds have exceeded 45k .
Only win in that time was good Friday v North and even that wasn't really convincing
It's like they all get stagefright

Agree they're a little shy

Beat the cats and didn't lose to tigs also

 

[Just Kreuzing]

We aren't sacking Voss. I am not convinced he is the guy, but merry go round of coaches isn't changing much. I think if you gave Teague or even Bolton this current side I don't think things would be much better or worse.

Only coach out there I think would of gotten more out of us is Ross Lyon. In terms of who else is available, or potentially available who is there? Hinkley? Buckley?

If we could land Hinkley I would probably move on Voss, truth be told, just not sure he is gettable.

I also don't think our list is very good, though at the same time a good coach with a plan could get more out of them. I think we have an average list and an equally average coach to match.

Don’t think Voss will be sacked but if it eventuates Hardwick is someone worth serious consideration, might be nearly done at Richmond.

 

[Accidental genius]

Classic example of stifling ball movement ...jsos mcgov and cinc (may have been another 1-2 players involved)

when we got caught up in the backline trying to move the ball out from around near the goal square...we had the spare runners and still ****ed it up

just dont see much in the way of smarts

some players do it occasionally but often we are a receive ball and kick it as long as possible type team.

im putting it mostly down to not having enough footy IQ and leaders out there to direct the less experienced guys...

 

[BeijingBlue]

I still don't understand how it's a coach's fault when players can tackle or can't hit a target or don't do a second effort. That's the psychology of our group, it's all above the shoulders.

The coaches set the standards and coach accordingly. I have asked this so many times in the past few years - What do they do all week because not much changes?

 

[gbatman]

Fix a few things.

Blind kicks have to go long, if not they have to go high, a blind kick that goes straight to the opposition is a bad turnover.

Fix the connection issues with the forwards. We just don't appear to be positioning right. Have to have players on to go to all the time.

Go fast from a turnover. Turnovers are gold, that's when you are supposed to be able to catch the opposition out. When we take an intercept mark, we stop, wait and go slow. From an intercept, we want to be going quick, put pressure on the opposition to u-turn and run hard to defend. This should bring more of the other forwards into the game.

Short kicking. I feel we get a focus on one thing and rather than limiting it, we eradicate it all together. Short kicking and switching of play, ok we did that a bit much a few weeks ago but to eliminate those things all together, that's hopeless. I feel the team is overcoached with the ball movement. We ignored short options who were free for going long to contests which is not on. We did not switch much. We look to afraid to go to dangerous areas of the ground when on the attack, such as where we go on the half forward line when we have to go long, it's wide, it's not putting pressure on the opposition.

The backline I feel is doing pretty well apart from slow movement after the intercept. Midfield was mediocre. Again we don't like having to play one on one. Is it the players or the coaching? Forwards just out of position too often.

 

[Blue and Blue]

I say sakc the supporters....................

 

[jimsta10]

These guys play like my mate Bob.

Bob, doesn't like to play in the rain, cold, or have too many people watching. Bob only likes practicing at the range and hitting balls when it's sunny.

 

[Just Kreuzing]

Last night I came to the realisation we aren't as talented (skill wise) as we think we are. And I not talking about the kids.

You’re a couple years behind...

 

[Accidental genius]

I say sakc the supporters....................

Are you not seeing any problems with our players/coaches/MC etc?

 

[agro]

For those wondering why Young was subbed off:


He kept the ball alive by spoiling to dangerous positions, which cost us 13 points. Not to mention the handball to nobody that led to 3rd goal.

This is a bit unfair on this player - hopefully YouTube delete this clip.

 

[SkyhorseTamer]

I think you are underrating Brisbane and overrating us.

Need to reajust your expectations.

Though still be angry.

Be angry that we are s**t because we have assembled a list which isn't good enough. Maybe if we had a coach or coaching panel which was above average which could make up for it, but we do not.

The big stars have seduced us. The overall list is very average. The club has the marketable stars, but overall we are being gaslit, the current sides ceiling is 8th or 9th.

And the ceiling of the pies list two years ago was bottom 4. The ceiling of the Richmond list season of first prem was 9th the ceiling of the Geelong list just before last season was barely scraping 8th. The 2016 dogs ceiling wasn't even finals. The saints ceiling was 8th. How's that look for them all now.

Conversely the ceiling of the GWS team has been multiple chips as have others who haven't come close. So how's that lost ceiling relevant?

The list is good enough to be a respectable top 8/6 side and pushing top 4. It's down to work ethic, attitude, confidence etc. Things that are completely irrelevant to talent.

 

[SkyhorseTamer]

We keep him. He's our captain and almost single-handedly dragged us across the line vs Collingwood last year, and if not for wayward kicking from Beavis and Butthead (McKay and Curnow), we would've been finalists.

This talk of trading him is rubbish. Had the same discussion at the end of 2021, well what do you know, he ended up winning a Brownlow and was the catalyst to our 8-2 start. Without him, we would not have even been close.

Only problem is that our midfield is not playing to its potential because it is poorly coached. You can argue that players selected in the AA team does nothing for our team, Curnow's Coleman does nothing for our team, etc all you want. But what it does more than anything is that it shows that these players have a high ceiling, and we can't reach that when Voss and his coaching team are crawling on the floor.

 

[SkyhorseTamer]

It’s not that the top players do nothing, it’s more that we need them to be super elite to be a chance of beating a top 8 standard side.

If you are expecting that, your side is middling at best.

Nah. It means you're asking too much of your role players and not putting them in easy spots to succeed. Ala Richmond, Collingwood this year run out most weeks with players no one's heard of and have an injury list pushing their development guys onto the park. Pretty basic and easy conclusions

 

[Blue and Blue]

Are you not seeing any problems with our players/coaches/MC etc?

Well now, theres a few points here
1. do you not understand irony and sarcasm?...because my comment was both

2. what I know is I don't like it when we lose and I love it when we win

personally I think that amount of knowledge is as much as anyone here posesses about why we win or lose
none of us has a clue whats wrong or right in the club

but that doesnt stop the armchair expertise and pretty poor personal attacks at people, club personnel, and the club in general


I half thought whilst perusing the threads this morning that this was the richmond board back in the day quite frankly...................

 

[Red Bull]

We’ve all heard the turning point stories at other clubs.
At Geelong, Scarlett drew the line in the sand for the team.
At Richmond, Cotchin transformed himself into a real leader.
At Melbourne, Gawn took the team to a farm on the peninsula and laid it all on the line.
Importantly, in all these cases, the players accepted the challenge and raised the bar, drove themselves to new levels and standards, decided that they really wanted to achieve something TOGETHER !!
I wonder about Carlton, will that lightbulb moment ever come, does this group really have that deep down desire to make their mark.
Do we have the leader/s within to emerge and say enough is enough, we’re not fair dinkum, things have to change NOW, and actually lead the way with deeds, not just the throw away cliches handed to them by some media manager.
Honesty and total commitment are non negotiable … from the players and the coaches.
Find the problems and fix them NOW.
This group of players and coaches at Carlton now, want for nothing.
Maybe that’s the problem …
There’s no more excuses acceptable to the faithful and the wider football community.
Make your stand NOW or be judged as the lazy, weak, dumb, pampered group that is killing Carlton …

 

[Jimmyonesix]

Could it be that the coaching directive is stifling their strengths? Or that it's just confusing and overly-complicated for them? These sort of things can lead to a lack of confidence, which is reflective of our skills. Some of these players, who are much better kicks normally, were struggling.

Why is that?

What do they do at training? Do they train to tackle efficiently? How are they instructed? I don't think we can isolate it to just one thing, but there seems to be a problem at every level. I'm definitely not absolving Cripps of all responsibility for instance, but we have a whole host of players who are better than the crap they served up last night. We should be playing much better with the list that we have... or perhaps I am overestimating our list.

Cripps has been tagged out of a lot of games and good players that limit him inside and have ability to step outside really torch him Steele got hold him last half with one shoulder . He has always been a poor kick with 4 coaches and an interim .
Under 3 -4 coaches players have been making the same execution errors and going missing.. When people show you who they are consistently believe..
we matched them for inside 50 skill and footy IQ let us down .. That vision of Charlie jumping on Harry,S head when he about to take a mark inside 50 says it all he is meant to be our best player !!!!

 

[Robertio]

Disappointing last night but on that age demographic window ladder they showed on Fox last week we are tenth, so we are not quite at the window level yet. Hang tight for a couple of seasons.

 

[Gointocarlton]

We’ve all heard the turning point stories at other clubs.
At Geelong, Scarlett drew the line in the sand for the team.
At Richmond, Cotchin transformed himself into a real leader.
At Melbourne, Gawn took the team to a farm on the peninsula and laid it all on the line.
Importantly, in all these cases, the players accepted the challenge and raised the bar, drove themselves to new levels and standards, decided that they really wanted to achieve something TOGETHER !!
I wonder about Carlton, will that lightbulb moment ever come, does this group really have that deep down desire to make their mark.
Do we have the leader/s within to emerge and say enough is enough, we’re not fair dinkum, things have to change NOW, and actually lead the way with deeds, not just the throw away cliches handed to them by some media manager.
Honesty and total commitment are non negotiable … from the players and the coaches.
Find the problems and fix them NOW.
This group of players and coaches at Carlton now, want for nothing.
Maybe that’s the problem …
There’s no more excuses acceptable to the faithful and the wider football community.
Make your stand NOW or be judged as the lazy, weak, dumb, pampered group that is killing Carlton …

Whilst I tend to agree with most of that, lets not confuse hunger and desire with ability. Take last night, desire was there, ability was not.
We have the leaders with hunger and desire, do they have the ability to take themselves and their team mates to the next level?

 

[Gethelred]

Sadly, we have turned into flat track bullies. Can beat sides like North Melbourne, GWS and West Coast but have lost consistently to the top sides.

I'd argue being a flat track bully is an improvement on where we were under Teague.