List Mgmt. 2023 Trade Thread - Part I

[George]

 

[MrFoster]

I still hold out some hope for Jack Billings. I think he’s got a different set of qualities to Butler and Hill. Better in the air, can kick goals, doesn’t shirk the tackle or contest, and would be a stronger rotation through the midfield.

Probably needs to improve his running and explosiveness to impress Ross Lyon but that’s tough given his limited preseason.

I thing goals is his only way back in. If Billings is kicking goals consistently and can do that at AFL level then he can hold a spot.

Maybe allowing Hill to restructure and end the Paton to the wing experiment.

None of the things you mentioned about Billings he can do consistently. He is just not a contested ball winner, and does not have the speed, smarts or composure to be an outstanding small forward or midfielder, even his kicking is hit and miss. Butler or Higgins on the other hand, impacts the game a lot more..

Part of the reason Billings got a lot of touches was due to his free HF/Wing role, so he can go to half back and pick up cheap possessions, then prop and stop, slowly kick side ways to another free player. No damage factor, minimum impact to the game, any GOP can do.

 

[SaintsofSteel]

Who would take Billing’s ? No one wanted him 2 years ago
Be case of giving him away to clear SC space

The one thing Billings can do well when he is fit and firing is cover huge distances in games. If a club/s want that sort of player I think he could hold some value. Perhaps we could work something out with Carlton in the TDK trade or North are still light on for small forwards/wingman. If need be pay $100k of his salary in return for a reasonable pick deal done. We cant continue to carry so many players who have a history of soft tissue injuries and Billings and others fall into the category.

The other category that needs to be thinned out, is over paid players commensurate to their performances. Again we have too many of those so it will be balancing act.

 

[Ephemeral Hope]

Luckless midfielder injured again as Lyon calls for 'brave' Saints

In a cruel blow, Saint Jack Billings has suffered another injury

www.afl.com.au

I didn't realise Billings was out for 4-6 weeks! That takes him to like nearly the end of the season

 

[Ekomaira]

 

[pebblesofsand]

Well you don't pay the same, there is a floor though. You can also stockpile that extra money for 4 years or something.

You do though - clubs have to pay 100% of their salary cap over a rolling three year period.

So all the bottom ranked clubs are effectively overpaying ALL of their players in comparison to the successful clubs.

 

[pebblesofsand]

He's a contracted player, just can't dump him.

Another mistake by the list management to give him such a long contract at decent rates... when he wasn't performing.

We all dreamed that he would come good, sometimes players just don't unfortunately.

He was a starting 22 free agent - I would have mightily p***ed off if we had let him walk for 2nd round compo which what was on offer.

Thought the list management did a brilliant job by not giving him away - and then using that to get him to sign on for 4 years @ $500k a year was a win as well.

 

[bergholt]

You do though - clubs have to pay 100% of their salary cap over a rolling three year period.

So all the bottom ranked clubs are effectively overpaying ALL of their players in comparison to the successful clubs.

That's why they're talking about being able to trade salary cap space to other clubs, which would mean lower clubs could get picks in exchange for their underpayment.

 

[gringo2011]

Depends on who you’re replacing them with
Membrey and Howard are not plodders

We would be a bottom 4 side if we got rid of plodders. I think there is a fair amount of fantasy going on.

 

[Jesuswasacarpenter]

Just had dinner

Told the wife don't know why you bother watching those cooking shows they don't help

Her reply, I don't know why you watch pr0n

That is very funny...thanks for sharing

 

[pebblesofsand]

That's why they're talking about being able to trade salary cap space to other clubs, which would mean lower clubs could get picks in exchange for their underpayment.

Yeah its an option but may play out more in favour of the bigger clubs.

I think the AFL needs to be bit more proactive in levelling up the comp. Whether its identifying priority picks or providing extra cash to lower clubs for pick purchases - its got to be about making the lower clubs more competitive rather than enhancing the larger clubs prospects.

 

[sammm]

4 years for him was stupid part of the reason Gaggs is gone

We liked it at the time.

 

[Mowman]

We liked it at the time.

No
There were many that said 4 years was silly

 

[bergholt]

Yeah its an option but may play out more in favour of the bigger clubs.

I think the AFL needs to be bit more proactive in levelling up the comp. Whether its identifying priority picks or providing extra cash to lower clubs for pick purchases - its got to be about making the lower clubs more competitive rather than enhancing the larger clubs prospects.

Lower down clubs should get more list spots. Fixes it three ways: more shots at getting a good player; more competitive reserves sides; and their salary cap money is spread more ways so they’re less likely to overpay.

 

[AirWinmar]

Lower down clubs should get more list spots. Fixes it three ways: more shots at getting a good player; more competitive reserves sides; and their salary cap money is spread more ways so they’re less likely to overpay.

Not a bad idea, but when they improve they'll need to cull more players due to their list size reducing. Not sure if that will be overcomplicated for clubs.

 

[PandaG]

Billings isn't the answer to anything

Yep

 

[PandaG]

We would be a bottom 4 side if we got rid of plodders. I think there is a fair amount of fantasy going on.

Our current playing list is not much better than hawthorns when you compare like for like.
We are close to a bottom 4 team….just over performed with good coaching .

 

[PandaG]

Billings 500k
McKenzie 500k
Gresham 600k
Jones 600k

Membrey 700k
Coffield/Clark 500k

All have not and currently not playing consistent footy or injured

3.4million

 

[PandaG]

Billings 500k
McKenzie 500k
Gresham 600k
Jones 600k

Membrey 700k
Coffield/Clark 500k

All have not and currently not playing consistent footy or injured

3.4million

In
Parish
TDK
Bing
McKay

Nothing is lost, team is better.

 

[StCicatriz]

I reckon JB is an instant upgrade on Byrnes

this is a very beta post

cmon man... where's the sigma in you gone? too many soy lattes from your time in melbourne.

 

[StCicatriz]

I'm not sure what school you went to but 4 more than 19 isn't double.

Ryan Byrnes and Jack Billings AFL Stats Comparison

Ryan Byrnes and Jack Billings AFL Stats Comparison.

www.footywire.com

hahahaha havent laughed this hard in ages

legit hilarious

 

[Dard Ball Get]

this is very beta post

cmon man... where's the sigma in you gone? too many soy lattes from your time in melbourne.

 

[StCicatriz]

Surprised Lyon doesn't understand the salary cap rules - we have to pay the same amount of money as Geelong.

Lower placed clubs should be able to stockpile salary cap for longer than the current three years.

Same applies to the idea of "buying" draft picks in exchange for salary cap space - great idea for lower clubs as long as they don't get penalised if no deals eventuate.

the banking mechanism is **** all. you have to cut ya salary cap before ya can use it. you're talking at most 10% of space, in one year... but ya cutting before ya get it. its essentially useless because no club is going from being at the bottom long enough to reduce the cap, to then being in finals and attractive enough to get any player to use the extra 10% cap space on.

every club can afford every player if they want to. they just back end the **** out of it.

it just comes down to risk appetite and most importantly, convincing the player to come. which is the big issue here, we are not an attractive club and havent been for a very ****in long time.

its why clubs like Geelong can get guys on massive unders on their market rate, because players are attracted to the club... not the pay cheque. they will reduce their asking price if they can get into a well run successful club.

 

[ScrappyDo]

the banking mechanism is * all. you have to cut ya salary cap before ya can use it. you're talking at most 10% of space.

every club can afford every player if they want to. they just back end the * out of it.

it just comes down to risk appetite and most importantly, convincing the player to come. which is the big issue here, we are not an attractive club and havent been for a very *in long time.

Property deals and Cotton On franchises have nothing to do with it either...

 

[StCicatriz]

Property deals and Cotton On franchises have nothing to do with it either...

im not going to disagree there

but i think we need to get successful first before we start looking at the salary cap being an issue

 

[ScrappyDo]

im not going to disagree there

but i think we need to get successful first before we start looking at the salary cap being an issue

Well it goes to attracting top players. Setting someone up with a paying asset for life after footy is worth waaay more than taxed income inside the cap.

Saints need to sort it out.