Play Nice 2024 AFL and State League Attendance

[hawker11]

I agree, but a lot of social media angst about lack of seating. Its a bit dicey to do this for games that I presume is high 20,000’s or even low 30,000’s.

Not a great look for Hawthorn trying to sell Marvel Stadium to their membership if they are herding all their members to the back of level 3 with GA members scrambling to find multiple seats halfway through the first quarter.

They'll definitely need to fix this if Hawthorn play a package of home games at Marvel.

When you’re not a crowd but a television audience.

 

[magpiemaniac44]

I disagree, seeing whole sections of the ground unopened (on behind the goal shots) looks terrible on TV, people shouldn't have to be forced up to the top row for a game that's barely 50% full

 

[Bjo187]

Yeah seeing the attendance 30k is too substantial to block big sections off, it should only be done for games that are under half capacity, ie at marvel crowds under 25k.

 

[Hawkk]

I saw these too..

I really lack sympathy.

Really helped TV atmosphere and looked much better. Bet the atmosphere up there sounded better too.

When you pay $100 for a GA Membership per year what do you expect.

Wish more clubs did it.


Sent from my iPhone using BigFooty.com

For North Melbourne, the Dogs and Saints sure. But this game was always going to reach 30,000 and Hawthorn need to actually sell Marvel to its membership - who don’t even have reserve seats at the stadium.

Take out 10,000 to 15,000 level 3 seats and a 30,000 crowd is basically a full Marvel Stadium (when you account for AFL members and Medallion Club members).

Hawthorn members, like the other MCG co-tenants despise Marvel, perhaps even more given Marvel replaced Waverley.

Back in 2001 the justification for moving games to Tasmania in the first place was to avoid home games at Marvel. And whilst that is 23 years ago - and its not acceptable for Hawthorn to make those deals in 2024, it still needs to be managed.

 

[budge27]

I agree, but a lot of social media angst about lack of seating. Its a bit dicey to do this for games that I presume is high 20,000’s or even low 30,000’s.

Not a great look for Hawthorn trying to sell Marvel Stadium to their membership if they are herding all their members to the back of level 3 with GA members scrambling to find multiple seats halfway through the first quarter.

They'll definitely need to fix this if Hawthorn play a package of home games at Marvel.

Is this top deck closing a Hawthorn thing or a Marvel thing?

Last year Hawthorn v St Kilda at the same time slot as today and also on a Sunday with a crowd of 22,500 half the top deck was closed. But then last week with Stk v Freo at Marvel on a Saturday night the top deck was all open with a crowd of only 19,200.

 

[Hawkk]

Is this top deck closing a Hawthorn thing or a Marvel thing?

Last year Hawthorn v St Kilda at the same time slot as today and also on a Sunday with a crowd of 22,500 half the top deck was closed. But then last week with Stk v Freo at Marvel on a Saturday night the top deck was all open with a crowd of only 19,200.

I believe its a club thing - because Hawthorn members don’t have any reserve seats at the stadium (despite paying for a 7 game membership) all tier 1 and 2 members need to pre-reserve a seat through ticketmaster (similar to finals).

That way it keeps all the supporters to the bottom 2 levels. Same thing happened in 2018, 2019, 2021 and 2022. The Luke Hodge farewell in 2017 was the exception.

 

[Billy ray]

It certainly filled up afterQtr time at marvel so was good to see it almost 30k

 

[ep12]

37,403 at the G

 

[Raz Man]

37,403 at the G

Pretty good Sunday twilight crowd!

 

[manicmagpie]

Already over 300k for the round with the Adelaide one to come.

 

[Rabman]

Adelaide Oval crowd: 40,965

 

[Fletched]

All of today's crowds were great

 

[Air_Chester]

Where I come from is MY taxes helped pay for 90% of the upgragde and the the moment it dosen't seem to be a good investment by the State govt when that money could have been better spent on more important and much needed infrastructure projects for the benefit of ALL Victorians not just a few Geelong supporters - now if the Geelong had paid for the new facilities I would keep my mouth shut!

“MY tax dollars should only ever be used on things that directly benefit ME!”

Cool, there’s 80,000 Geelong members, and if they all pay $10k in tax that’s $800 million. So maybe get a bit of perspective before using stupid arguments.

Unless of course you’re going to go around the state, monitor the patronage of every single road/rail upgrade and then complain about them as well. In which case I think you’ve got bigger issues than whether or not Geelong are getting 40,000 to every single game.

 

[PonsfordMagpie]

After Round 11 (excluding Gather Round)

HOME CROWDS
Club (# of home games played) = Total (Average)

• Collingwood (4) = 246,125 (61,531)
• Carlton (6) = 357,069 (59,512)
• Essendon (5) = 292,281 (58,456)
• Richmond (6) = 297,824 (49,637)
• West Coast (5) = 239,698 (47,940)
• Fremantle (5) = 237,805 (47,561)
• Adelaide (5) = 224,807 (44,961)
• Melbourne (4) = 176,396 (44,099)
• Geelong (5) = 219,084 (43,817)
• Sydney (5) = 194,999 (39,000)
• Hawthorn (5) = 193,808 (38,762)
• Port Adelaide (5) = 183,489 (36,698)
• St Kilda (4) = 142,510 (35,628)
• Brisbane Lions (5) = 155,303 (31,061)
• Western Bulldogs (5) = 139,819 (27,964)
• North Melbourne (5) = 105,873 (21,175)
• Gold Coast (6) = 78,040 (13,007)
• GWS (5) = 62,544 (12,509)

HOME AND AWAY CROWDS
Club (# of games played) = Total (Average)

• Collingwood (10) = 606,940 (60,694)
• Carlton (10) = 569,823 (56,982)
• Essendon (10) = 555,189 (55,519)
• Richmond (10) = 478,656 (47,866)
• Melbourne (10) = 473,193 (47,319)
• Sydney (10) = 430,671 (43,067)
• Geelong (10) = 425,198 (42,520)
• Adelaide (10) = 402,883 (40,288)
• Fremantle (10) = 397,042 (39,704)
• West Coast (10) = 385,757 (38,576)
• Hawthorn (10) = 377,906 (37,791)
• Port Adelaide (10) = 366,331 (36,633)
• St Kilda (10) = 331,543 (33,154)
• Brisbane Lions (10) = 322,027 (32,203)
• Western Bulldogs (10) = 302,323 (30,232)
• GWS (10) = 253,872 (25,387)
• North Melbourne (10) = 222,271 (22,227)
• Gold Coast (10) = 193,323 (19,332)

 

[Bjo187]

After Round 11 (excluding Gather Round)

HOME CROWDS
Club (# of home games played) = Total (Average)

• Collingwood (4) = 246,125 (61,531)
• Carlton (6) = 357,069 (59,512)
• Essendon (5) = 292,281 (58,456)
• Richmond (6) = 297,824 (49,637)
• West Coast (5) = 239,698 (47,940)
• Fremantle (5) = 237,805 (47,561)
• Adelaide (5) = 224,807 (44,961)
• Melbourne (4) = 176,396 (44,099)
• Geelong (5) = 219,084 (43,817)
• Sydney (5) = 194,999 (39,000)
• Hawthorn (5) = 193,808 (38,762)
• Port Adelaide (5) = 183,489 (36,698)
• St Kilda (4) = 142,510 (35,628)
• Brisbane Lions (5) = 155,303 (31,061)
• Western Bulldogs (5) = 139,819 (27,964)
• North Melbourne (5) = 105,873 (21,175)
• Gold Coast (6) = 78,040 (13,007)
• GWS (5) = 62,544 (12,509)

HOME AND AWAY CROWDS
Club (# of games played) = Total (Average)

• Collingwood (10) = 606,940 (60,694)
• Carlton (10) = 569,823 (56,982)
• Essendon (10) = 555,189 (55,519)
• Richmond (10) = 478,656 (47,866)
• Melbourne (10) = 473,193 (47,319)
• Sydney (10) = 430,671 (43,067)
• Geelong (10) = 425,198 (42,520)
• Adelaide (10) = 402,883 (40,288)
• Fremantle (10) = 397,042 (39,704)
• West Coast (10) = 385,757 (38,576)
• Hawthorn (10) = 377,906 (37,791)
• Port Adelaide (10) = 366,331 (36,633)
• St Kilda (10) = 331,543 (33,154)
• Brisbane Lions (10) = 322,027 (32,203)
• Western Bulldogs (10) = 302,323 (30,232)
• GWS (10) = 253,872 (25,387)
• North Melbourne (10) = 222,271 (22,227)
• Gold Coast (10) = 193,323 (19,332)

Do you know what the season average attendance sits at across the competition this year? And how it compares to the same stage last year?

 

[PonsfordMagpie]

Do you know what the season average attendance sits at across the competition this year? And how it compares to the same stage last year?

After Round 11 2023 = 36,680
After Round 11 2024 = 38,517

 

[weewilly]

“MY tax dollars should only ever be used on things that directly benefit ME!”

Cool, there’s 80,000 Geelong members, and if they all pay $10k in tax that’s $800 million. So maybe get a bit of perspective before using stupid arguments.

Unless of course you’re going to go around the state, monitor the patronage of every single road/rail upgrade and then complain about them as well. In which case I think you’ve got bigger issues than whether or not Geelong are getting 40,000 to every single game.

No to benefit ALL Victorians NOT just a few thousand local football supporters in a State that has a pop of 7 million that was all about holding all the Geelong area seats that the ALP hold ATM and the only "issue" I have is that did the Cats really need an expensive upgrade on what looks like an underuesd facility when the bulk of the money gifted by the State Govt to the Kardinia Park trust would have been better spent eleswhere!

There would be no way that the average Geelong supporter would pay $10,000 in taxes as a big proportion would be pensioniers or on some other govt payment as their main source of income so your $800 miillion would would be way off the mark.

Oh and by the way I am a long time Labor voter but I still think that with the current state of the Victorian economy the money could have been better spent.

This is my final comment!

 

[weewilly]

After Round 11 2023 = 36,680
After Round 11 2024 = 38,517

That is a substancial jump on last season also considering that North already has had two less than 5000 crowds in Hobart so far this year it makes it even better.

• 'The AFL is pleased to announce a record breaking seventh millionth attendee of the 2023 Toyota AFL Premiership Season. More than 7,000,000 fans have attended Rounds 1–23 which has shattered the record-breaking season of 2019 (6,951,304)."

 

[weewilly]

All of today's crowds were great

Yep, apart from the North outrider in Hobart the rest of the capital city crowds were excellent and holding up well as we come into winter.

 

[kranger]

Dogs members as % of total crowd. Bloods members as % of total crowd.
But only if you have to hand. Does not pick up neutrals and Partisan GAs.

Reckon Sydney and Dogs might be sufficiently interested to share research costs and reward those filling questionnaires with snack vouchers. AFL might co fund.


I am afraid you’re right.



Agree swans games in Melbourne might attract more neutrals or casuals because their relative success make them likely to make a good game of it.

The huge crowd at the G for Rd 1 between the Pies and Swans attracted heaps of Pies fans and a lot of Swans fans. If I was a neutral I would have considered attending.

Thank you everyone who has contributed thoughts and erudite advice.

The point is that if st Kilda were playing West Coast there would have been an extra 1 or 2 thousand people at the ground.

People mean that Fremantle, Port, GWS and Gold Coast are much lower drawing away teams compared to Adelaide, Brisbane, Sydney or West Coast.

Nobody is blaming those clubs though.
That game against freo was always going to draw poorly.

Just going back to this conversation from the beginning of the weekend. I went through AFL Tables to pull together some statistics.

AFL Tables

AFL Tables - Australian Rules Stats & Tables

afltables.com

This table shows generally how big a crowd the non Victorian teams draw in Melbourne against the five smaller Victorian teams since 1997 (Geelong have been excluded).

I want to be upfront, I choose not to use the biggest crowd for a couple of match ups when calculating the averages, as the crowds I excluded seemed significantly higher than the other crowds for that match up. But I still listed what the biggest crowd was in the second line of each row.

Swans seem to be out in front, even with excluding their biggest crowd against four of the five Victorian teams.

I excluded the big 4 Vic Teams due to their crowd sizes fluctuating much more than the smaller Teams.




I did all the data collection and presentation on a phone, in lots of small periods of time over this weekend, when I was able to. This probably would have been a lot easier using computers and multiple screens. But also using the phone meant I was very limited in formatting capabilities including the width of text in a column.

There were certainly several match ups that were consistently well below the representative crowd figure used, but they had several similar sized larger crowds that meant it was less of an anomaly, compared to the largest crowds I excluded.

It should be noted, that with several of the Victorian teams selling games to laces outside Melbourne, some of the match ups have low game counts to compare, or it’s been a while since they last played. Such as Melbourne vs Eagles later this year being the first time the match up has been in Melbourne since 2014. So if a new record is set, both Eagles and Demons could both reclaim their position in front of Crowd and Saints respectively.

I hope everyone can make sense of the table and enjoy the data.

 

[kranger]

It’s interesting, that if we exclude Suns and Giants as they didn’t exist yet, then 17 of the remaining 30 match up’s have a record crowd prior to 2010. With 3 of them even being before 2000.



It would be interesting to do such an exercise, but using the average of all the games played in Melbourne for each match up’s. And not just simply using the largest crowd (or representative of a reasonable largest crowd on several occassions) for each match up.

 

[manicmagpie]

It’s interesting, that if we exclude Suns and Giants as they didn’t exist yet, then 17 of the remaining 30 match up’s have a record crowd prior to 2010. With 3 of them even being before 2000.

Although most of these conform to the usual rules about form lines of teams being the biggest driver of large crowds. It's not a coincidence that all the Lions and Eagles records are from the eras in which they were flag winners or contenders as well as good conditions for the hosts.

 

[weewilly]

Although most of these conform to the usual rules about form lines of teams being the biggest driver of large crowds. It's not a coincidence that all the Lions and Eagles records are from the eras in which they were flag winners or contenders as well as good conditions for the hosts.

Of course the form line of clubs does have a big impact on crowds and as you can see even Richmond with their massive support have dropped off this season as their fans come to realize that they won't make the top 8 again this season.

 

[threenewpadlocks]

It’s interesting, that if we exclude Suns and Giants as they didn’t exist yet, then 17 of the remaining 30 match up’s have a record crowd prior to 2010. With 3 of them even being before 2000.

View attachment 2001958

It would be interesting to do such an exercise, but using the average of all the games played in Melbourne for each match up’s. And not just simply using the largest crowd (or representative of a reasonable largest crowd on several occassions) for each match up.

This is unsurprising considering the creep of premium seating and bigger membership numbers in general over the last generation.

It may work for "in demand games" but it limits the low demand games by limiting the available seats, or making people less likely to go if they feel they've already paid for their seat well in advance.

Anecdotally as a Dogs fan going to games in the early-mid 2000's was much more pleasant in the flexibility and reduced costs of wanting to sit anywhere at the ground. Now in many GA games you're limited to half the ground behind the first 10 rows or whatever.

 

[ep12]

Anecdotally as a Dogs fan going to games in the early-mid 2000's was much more pleasant in the flexibility and reduced costs of wanting to sit anywhere at the ground. Now in many GA games you're limited to half the ground behind the first 10 rows or whatever.

imo, there should be no need for reserved seating in the general public or AFL Reserve in any games where they are expecting less than 40,000 people.
Let the GA members walk onto level 1 or 4 and sit wherever they like.
Its just the AFL/MCC/Clubs wanting more money.